The purpose of this video is to provide a little bit of information to assist those who are seeking to leave the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Your natural desire will be to preserve, if possible, your relationship with your family and friends. Often in the process of leaving, you will be confronted with a challenging situation from the local elders. If they come to see you as a threat—and people who speak the truth will be seen as a threat by them—you may even find yourself facing a judicial committee. You may think you can reason with them. You may think that if they only hear you out, they will come to see the truth as you have. If so, you are being naïve, though understandably so.
I’m going to play a recording for you that came from my own judicial hearing. I think it will prove beneficial for those brothers and sisters seeking advice about the JW judicial process. You see, I get requests all the time from Witnesses who have been trying to leave quietly, under the radar, so to speak. Usually, at some point they will get “a call” from two elders who are “worried about them” and just want “to chat.” They do not want to chat. They want to interrogate. One brother told me that within a minute of the elders initiating their telephone “chat”—they actually used that word—they were asking him to affirm that he still believed that the governing body is the channel Jehovah is using. Oddly enough, they never seem to ask anyone to acknowledge the authority of Jesus Christ over the congregation. It’s always about the leadership of men; specifically, the governing body.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are indoctrinated with the belief that congregation elders only seek their well-being. They are there to help, nothing more. They are not policeman. They will even say as much. Having served as an elder for 40 years, I know that there are some elders who truly are not policeman. They will leave the brothers alone and will never engage in interrogation tactics such as the police use. But men of that nature were few and far between when I served as an elder, and I daresay they are fewer now than ever before. Men like that have slowly been driven out, and they rarely get appointed. Men of good conscience can only endure the atmosphere that is now very prevalent in the organization for so long without destroying their own conscience.
I know there are some who will disagree with me when I say the Organization is worse now than ever, perhaps because they have personally experienced some horrific injustice, and in no way do I mean to minimize their pain. From my studies into the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I now realize that there was a cancer growing within the Organization from the days of Russell, but it was incipient back then. However, like cancer, if left untreated, it will just grow. When Russell died, JF Rutherford used the opportunity to seize control of the Organization using tactics that have nothing to do with the Christ and everything to do with the Devil. (We will be publishing a book within a few months providing ample evidence of that.) The cancer continued to grow through the presidency of Nathan Knorr, who introduced the modern judicial procedures in 1952. After Knorr passed on, the Governing Body took over and expanded the judicial process to treat those who simply resign from the religion in the same way they treat fornicators and adulterers. (It is telling that a child abuser was often treated with greater leniency than two consenting adults engaging in extramarital sex.)
The cancer continues to grow and now is so pervasive that it is hard for anyone to miss. Many are leaving because they are troubled by the child sexual abuse lawsuits plaguing the Organization in country after country. Or the hypocrisy of the Governing Body’s 10-year affiliation with the United Nations; or the recent spate of ridiculous doctrinal changes, like the overlapping generation, or the sheer presumptuousness of the Governing Body in declaring themselves to be the Faithful and Discreet slave.
But like some insecure national dictatorship, they have built an iron curtain. They don’t want you to leave, and if you do, they will see to it that you are punished.
If you are facing the threat of being cut off from your family and friends, don’t try to reason with these men. Jesus told us at Matthew 7:6,
“Do not give what is holy to dogs nor throw your pearls before swine, so that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open.” (New World Translation)
You see, the elders have sworn their loyalty to the Governing Body. They truly believe those eight men are God’s representatives. They even call themselves substitutes for Christ at using 2 Corinthians 5:20, based on the New World Translation rendition. Like a Catholic Inquisitor in medieval times who considered the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ, Witness elders dealing with what they call “apostasy” are today fulfilling the words of our Lord who assured his true disciples, “Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.” (John 16:2, 3)
“They will do these things because they have not come to know either the father or me.” John 16:3
How very true those words have proven to be. I have had firsthand experience with that on several occasions. If you have not watched the video covering my own mockery of a judicial hearing as well as the subsequent appeal hearing, I would recommend you take the time to do so. I have put a link to it here as well as in the description field of this video on YouTube.
It was an exceptional judicial hearing in my experience, and I don’t mean that in a good way. I’ll give you just a little background before playing the recording.
As I drove to the Kingdom hall where the hearing was being held, I found I couldn’t park in the parking lot because both entrances had been barricaded with vehicles and stationed with elders acting as sentries. There were other elders guarding the entrance into the hall itself and one or two wandering around the parking lot on patrol. They seemed to be expecting an assault of some kind. You have to bear in mind that Witnesses are continually being fed the idea that soon the world is going to attack them. They are expecting to be persecuted.
So afraid were they, that they wouldn’t even allow my companions onto the property. They were also very worried about being recorded. Why? Worldly courts record everything. Why would the judicial procedures of Jehovah’s Witnesses not rise above the standards of Satan’s world? The reason is because when you dwell in darkness, you fear the light. So, they demanded I remove my suit jacket even though it was quite cold in the hall since it was in early April, and they had turned the heating down to save money because it wasn’t a meeting night. They also wanted me to leave my computer and notes outside the room. I wasn’t even allowed to take my paper notes nor my Bible into the room. Not allowing me to take in even my paper notes nor my own Bible showed me just how terrified they were of what I was going to say in my defense. In these hearings, the elders don’t want to reason from the Bible and usually when you ask them to look up a scripture, they will be disinclined to do so. Again, they don’t want to stand under the light of truth, so they will say, “we are not here to discuss the scriptures.” Imagine going into a court of law and having the judge say, “We are not here to discuss the law code of our country”? It’s ridiculous!
So, it was clear that the decision was a foregone conclusion and that what they sought was only to cloak what I can only describe as a travesty in justice with a thin veil of respectability. No one was to know what went on in that room. They wanted to be able to claim whatever they wanted to since it was to be the word of three men against mine. Bear in mind that to this day, I have never heard nor seen whatever evidence they claim to have acted upon, though I have requested it repeatedly both by telephone and in writing.
Recently, while going through some old files, I stumbled upon the telephone call that I got to arrange for the appeal hearing. Why did I appeal, some have asked, since I didn’t want to be a Jehovah’s Witness anymore? I went through this whole time-consuming and excruciating process because only in this way could I shine some light on their unscriptural judicial procedures and, I hope, help others facing the same thing.
That is why I’m making this video.
As I listened to the audio recording that I’m about to play, I realized that it might serve others who have yet to go through this process by helping them to understand exactly what they are facing, to have no pretensions about the true nature of the judicial process as practised by Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially when it comes to anyone who begins to doubt or disagree with their man-made teachings.
David: Hello yep, hello, yep. This is ahh David Del Grande.
Eric: Yes:
David: I’ve been asked to chair the appeal committee to hear your appeal? From the original committee.
Eric: Alright.
David: So ahh, what we're wondering is, would you be able to meet with us tomorrow evening at the same Kingdom hall in Burlington at 7 PM will that……
I knew David Del Grande from years before. He seemed like a nice fellow. He was used back then as a substitute Circuit Overseer if my memory serves. You’ll notice that he wants to hold the meeting the very next day. This is typical. When summoning someone to a judicial hearing of this nature, they want to get it over and done with quickly and they don’t want to allow the accused to have adequate time to mount a defense.
Eric: No, I have other arrangements.
David: Okay, so…
Eric: Next week.
David: Next week?
Eric: Yeah
David: Okay, so Monday night?
Eric: I’ll have to check my schedule, David. Let me check my schedule. Ahh a lawyer is just sending a letter to what’s his name, Dan, which is going out today so you guys might want to consider that before the meeting. So let's put a pin in the meeting this week and then come back.
David: Well, we have to be meet at a time when there are no congregation meetings so that's why if tomorrow night doesn't work for you, it would be really good if we could do this say Monday night because there are no meetings in the kingdom Hall on Monday night.
Eric: Right. So lets…(Interrupted)
David: Can you, can you, get back to me on that?
He completely ignores what I have said concerning the letter from the lawyer. His only concern is to get this hearing over with as quickly as possible. He doesn’t want to consider my feelings or thoughts on the matter. They are irrelevant, because the decision has already been taken. I asked him to postpone the meeting until a week from Monday and you can hear the exasperation in his voice as he responds.
Eric: Let's make it a week from Monday then.
David: A week from Monday?
Eric: Yes.
David: Ahh, you know what? I’m not sure that ahh the other two brothers are going to be available a week from Monday. I mean, you know the the the,the meeting is really just because to um, because you're appealing the decision that was originally made by the committee, right?
David should never play poker, because he gives way too much away. “The meeting is just because you’re appealing the decision made by the committee”? What’s that got to do with scheduling? Between his earlier sigh and his saying “the meeting is just because…”, you can hear his frustration. He knows this is an exercise in futility. The decision is already made. The appeal is not be upheld. This is all a pretense—it’s already wasting his valuable time on a done deal and so apparently he is annoyed that I’m dragging it out further.
Eric: Yes.
David: I’m not sure why, I’m not sure why you need that length of time you know in order to… we’re trying to make make, make, we’re trying to accommodate you, you know your request for an appeal so… you know, there's other brothers involved besides myself, and you right? so we trying to accommodate them as well, those who are on the appeal committee, but do you think you can work it out for Monday night?
He says, “I’m not sure why you need that length of time.” He can’t keep the annoyance out of his voice. He says, “we’re trying to accommodate you…your request for an appeal”. It would appear that they are doing me a very great favor just by allowing me to have this appeal.
We should be mindful that the appeal process was only introduced in the 1980s. The book, Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry (1983), refers to it. Prior to that, the publisher was simply disfellowshipped with no formal chance for appeal. They could write in to Brooklyn and if they had enough legal clout, they might have gotten a hearing, but few even knew that was an option. They certainly were never informed there was any option for appeal. It was only in the 1980s that the judicial committee was required to inform the disfellowshipped one that they had seven days to appeal. Personally, I have a feeling that was one of the positive things to come out of the newly formed Governing Body before the spirit of the Pharisee took over the Organization completely.
Of course, rarely did an appeal ever result in the decision of the judicial committee being overturned. I know of one appeal committee that did that, and the chairman, a friend of mine, got dragged over the coals by the circuit overseer for reversing the committee’s decision. The appeal committee does not retry the case. All they are allowed to do is two things, which really stacks the deck against the accused, but I will wait until the end of this video to discuss that and why it is a sham arrangement.
One thing that should trouble any honest-hearted Jehovah’s Witness out there is David’s lack of concern for my well-being. He says he’s trying to accommodate me. An appeal is not an accommodation. It should be considered a legal right. It is the only thing that will keep any judiciary in check. Imagine if you could not appeal any case in civil or criminal court. What option would you have to deal with judicial prejudice or malfeasance? Now if that is considered necessary for the courts of the world, shouldn’t it be even more so for Jehovah’s Witnesses? I’m viewing this from their perspective. In the courts of Canada, if I am found guilty, I could be fined or even go to jail, but that’s it. However, based on Witness theology, if I’m disfellowshipped when Armageddon comes, I will die forever—no chance at a resurrection. So, by their own beliefs, they are engaged in a life-and-death court case. Not just life and death, but eternal life or eternal death. If David truly believes that, and I have no reason to assume otherwise, then his off-hand manner is completely reprehensible. Where is the love that Christians are supposed to show, even to their enemies? When you hear his words, remember what Jesus said: “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” (Matthew 12:34)
So, at his insistence that it be Monday, I check my schedule.
Eric: Ok, so, yeah, no Monday I can’t make it. It will have to be the following Monday. If Monday is the only day you can do it, then it would have to be, let me see the calendar here; okay,so today is the 17th, so the 29th at 3:00 pm.
David: Oh wow, ha ha, that's leaving it pretty long, um…
Eric: I don't know what’s the rush?
David: Well I mean, hah, we’re trying, we’re trying to ahh, we’re trying to ahh, accommodate you with your appeal that’s ahh, you know…Normally people who want to appeal the decision usually want to meet as quickly as they can. Ha ha ha, that's quite normal.
Eric: Well, that’s not the case here.
David: No?
Eric So thank you for thinking of me that way, but it’s not a rush.
David: Okay, I will ahh, so you're saying the earliest you can meet is when?
Eric: The 29th.
David: And that's a Monday, is it?
Eric: That’s a Monday. Yes.
David: Monday the 29th. I'll ahh have to get back to you and check with the other brothers about their availability for that.
Eric: Yes, if that’s not available, we could go for, since you're kind of limited to Monday's (is interrupted when he says we could do the 6th)
David: It doesn't have to be the Monday, I’m just saying that's the night there are no meetings at the hall. Are you available Sunday night? Or Friday night? I mean, I’m just talking about nights that they don’t have meetings at the Kingdom hall.
Eric: All right, okay. So we are at the 17th, so we could make it the 28th as well if you want to go for Sunday night, April the 28th.
David: So you can’t make it all next week?
Eric: I don't know why you are in a rush.
David: Well, because we all have, you know, we have appointments. Some of us are to be away toward the end of the month, so I'm just saying that if we're trying to accommodate you, but we also have to make ourselves available too.
Eric: Sure, absolutely.
David: So would you be available say Friday, next week?
Eric: Friday, that would be, let me think…. that’s the 26th? (interrupted by David)
David: Because there would be no meetings in the hall at that time.
Eric: Yeah, I could do it Friday the 26th as well.
David: Okay, so, so, it's the same kingdom Hall where you came before, so it will be at 7 o'clock. That's okay?
Eric: Alright. This time am I going to be allowed to take my notes in?
After dithering for a couple of minutes, we finally arrange on a date that satisfies David’s rush to get this over with. Then I pop the question I’ve been waiting to ask since he started talking. “Am I going to be allowed to take my notes in?”
Imagine going into any court in the land and asking that question to the prosecutor or the judge. They’d take the question itself as an insult, or think you were just an idiot. “Well, of course you can take your notes in. What do you think this is, the Spanish Inquisition?”
In any civil or criminal court, the accused is given discovery of all the charges against him prior to the trial so that he can prepare a defense. All proceedings in the trial are recorded, every word is written down. He is expected to bring in not only his paper notes, but his computer and any other devices that will aid him in mounting a defense. That is how they do it in “Satan’s World”. I’m using a term Witnesses use. How can Satan’s world have better judicial procedures than “Jehovah’s Organization”?
David Del Grande is about my age. Not only has he served as an elder of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but he has also worked as a substitute circuit overseer as I already mentioned. So, the answer to my question about bringing in my notes should be on the tip of his tongue. Let’s hear what he has to say.
Eric: Alright. This time am I going to be allowed to take my notes in?
David: Well, I mean, you can… you can write notes but no electronic devices or tape recording devices- no, that's not permitted in judicial hearings. No, I think you know I think you know that, but…
Eric: The last time I was not allowed to take my paper notes in.
David: I mean you can make notes while you're in the meeting, if you choose to do so. You know what I’m saying? You can you can make notes if you choose to do so.
Eric: Well, maybe I am not making myself clear. I have printed notes from my own research that are part of my defense…
David: Okay..
Eric: I want to know if I can take those into the meeting.
David: Well, you understand what the purpose of this meeting is? The original committee, you know what decision they came to?
Eric: Yes.
David: So as an appeal committee, you know what our obligation is, is to determine repentance at the time of the original hearing, right? That’s what our obligation is as an appeal committee.
This is an important part of the recording to analyze. The answer to my question should be a simple and straightforward, “Yes, Eric, of course you can take your notes into the meeting. Why wouldn’t we allow that. There is nothing in those notes that we would be afraid of, because we have the truth and those with the truth have nothing to fear.” However, notice how he evades answering. First, he says that no electronic devices are permitted and no recordings can be made. But I didn’t ask that. So, I ask a second time clarifying that I’m talking about notes written on paper. Again, he evades answering the question, telling me I can make notes which again is something I wasn’t asking about. So, again have to clarify like I’m speaking to someone who is mentally challenged, explaining that these are paper notes which I need for my defense and for a third time he evades giving me a simple, direct answer, choosing instead to lecture me on the purpose of the meeting, which he proceeds to get wrong. Let’s play that part again.
David: So as an appeal committee, you know what our obligation is, is to determine repentance at the time of the original hearing, right? That’s what our obligation is as an appeal committee. Having served as an elder before.
According to David, the only purpose of an appeal committee is to determine that there was repentance at the time of the original hearing. He is wrong. That is not the only purpose. There is another which we will get to in a moment and the fact he makes no mention of it tells me that either he is grossly incompetent or is being willfully misleading. But again, before we get into that, consider what he says that the appeal committee is to determine whether there was repentance at the time of the original hearing. First of all, if you don’t repent the first time, there are no second chances in the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Since they claim Jehovah’s name, they make him responsible for their harsh attitude. I wonder how our Heavenly Father feels about that. But there is more and it is worse. This rule is a joke. A colossal and very cruel joke. It is a heinous miscarriage of justice. Just how is any appeal committee going to determine whether there was repentance at the time of the original hearing since no recordings were made? They have to rely on the testimony of Witnesses. On the one hand, they have three appointed older men, and on the other hand, the accused, all by himself. Since the accused was not allowed any witnesses nor observers, he has only his own testimony. He is a single Witness to the proceedings. The Bible says, “Do not admit an accusation against an older man, except only on the evidence of two or three witnesses.” (1 Timothy 5:19) So the three older men, the elders, can back up each other and the accused doesn’t stand a chance. The game is rigged. But now on to the thing David failed to mention. (By the way, he still hasn’t answered my question.)
David: So I mean, if, if, if if if it’s to, you know, it's to provide more information to support what you been doing then you know that would be something we be concerned about, right? You know what I’m saying?
Eric: Well, you're not being honest there, or maybe you just don't know what the book says, but the purpose of the appeal is to first establish that there was the basis for a disfellowshipping and then…
David: That’s right.
Eric: …and then to establish that there was repentance at the time of the original hearing…
David: Right. That’s right. is right now in the case know that in the case of the original
Eric: …now in the case of the original hearing, there was no hearing because they would not allow me to take in my own paper notes …that was my defense. They were basically stripping me of the opportunity to make a defense, right? How can I defend myself if I'm relying only on my memory when I have evidence that is in writing and that was on paper, no recording, no computer, just on paper and they wouldn’t let me take those in. So I want to know if I'm allowed now to take my defense in so that I can present a defense to show that the original hearing’s basis for disfellowshipping was flawed.
I can’t believe they didn’t brief him on what occurred at the first hearing. He must know that I never got to provide any information. Again, if he truly doesn’t know that, this speaks of gross incompetence, and if he does know that, it speaks of duplicity, because he should realize that he still needs to establish if there is a basis for action against me, no matter what testimony the three elders may have given to him.
The Bible says, “Our law does not judge a man unless first it has heard from him and come to know what he is doing, does it?”” (John 7:51) Well apparently, this law does not apply in the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you can’t judge a man without hearing, or ever hearing, what he has to say.
According to the Shepherd the Flock of God book, there are two questions an appeal committee must answer:
Was it established that the accused committed a disfellowshipping offense?
Did the accused demonstrate repentance commensurate with the gravity of his wrongdoing at the time of the hearing with the judicial committee?
So here I am asking yet again, a fourth time, whether I can bring my paper notes into the meeting. Do you think I will now get a straight answer?
David: Well, you.. alright, let's put it this way, I'll talk to the other four brothers, but you come for the meeting and then we’ll sort that out—at the time when you come, okay? Because I don’t want to speak for myself, or speak for the other brothers when I haven’t talked to them. Okay?
Eric: Right. Okay.
Again, no answer. This is just another evasion. He won’t even say that he’ll call them and get back to me, because he already knows the answer, and I have to believe there is enough of a sense of justice in his soul to know that this is wrong, but he doesn’t have the honesty to admit it, so he says he’ll give me the answer at the meeting.
If you are a reasonable person unfamiliar with this cult-like mentality, you may be wondering what he’s afraid of. After all, what could my paper notes possibly contain that would instill such fear? You have six men—three from the original committee and three more from the appeal committee—at one end of the table, and little old me at the other end. Why would permitting me to have paper notes have so changed the balance of power that they would be terrified of facing me that way?
Think about that. Their complete unwillingness to discuss Scripture with me is the single most compelling piece of evidence that they do not have the truth and that deep down, they know that.
Anyway, I realized I wasn’t going to get anywhere so I dropped it.
He then tries to reassure me that they are unbiased.
David: We’re…none of us, none of us know you personally, at least in talking to the others. So it's not like …ahh you know, we’re partial, okay, we don't know you personally, so that's a good thing.
When I went to the appeal hearing, I was again not allowed to bring witnesses even though the Shepherd the Flock of God makes provision for that. When I saw that there was no way they were going to allow me to go in with my Witnesses, I asked the elders guarding the locked front door of the hall if I could bring my paper notes in, at least. I’m going back to the original question now, I’m asking for the 5th time. Remember, David said they’d let me know when I arrived. However, they would not summon even one of the elders inside the hall to the front door to answer that question. Instead, I was required to go in by myself. Frankly, given the intimidation tactics I’d already experienced in the parking lot and the evasiveness and dishonesty evident in the way the men at the door were dealing with me, never mind David’s dishonesty in his discussion with me, I was loathe to enter a locked hall and face six or more elders all by myself. So, I left.
They disfellowshipped me, of course, so I appealed to the Governing Body, you are allowed to do that by the way. They have yet to answer, so if anyone asks, I tell them I am not disfellowshipped because the Governing Body needs to respond to my appeal first. They may be reluctant to do so because, while governments tend to avoid getting involved in religious matters, they will step in if a religion violates its own rules, which they most definitely have done in this case.
The point of all this is to show those yet to go through what I’ve really come up against, what they are facing. The goal of these judicial committees is to “keep the congregation clean” which is double-speak for “Don’t let anyone air our dirty laundry.” My advice is that if the elders come a-knocking, best to avoid speaking to them. If they ask you a direct question, like do you believe the Governing Body is God’s appointed channel, you have three options. 1) Stare them down and maintain silence. 2) Ask them what promoted that question. 3) Tell them that if they show you that from Scripture you will accept it.
Most of us would find it hard to do number 1, but it can be great fun to see them unable to handle the silence. If they answer number 2 with something like, “Well, we heard some disturbing things.” You simply ask, “Really, from whom?” They will not tell you, and that will give you the chance to say, are you hiding the names of gossipers? Are you supporting gossip? I can’t answer any accusation unless I can face my accuser. That’s Bible law.
If you use number three, just keep asking them to show you scriptural proof for every assumption they make.
In the end, they will likely disfellowship you no matter what, because that is about the only way a cult has of protecting itself—slandering the name of anyone who disagrees.
In the end, they will do what they will do. Be prepared for it and have no fear.
““Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them. 11 “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12 Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your reward is great in the heavens, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you.” (Matthew 5:10-12)
Thank you for your time and thank you for your support.
Archived Comments
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Comment by making sure on 2021-11-26 04:51:37
Thank you Eric for your courage to endure such mistreatment for the benefit of those who will follow in like fashion.
I think a different rendering of Romans 10:9 would describe the WT position. “For if you publicly declare with your mouth that the GB is the FDS and exercise faith in your heart that Jesus appointed it in 1919, you will be saved.”Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-26 09:21:20
Good one, Making Sure. Thanks!
Comment by sincerelyours on 2021-11-26 08:43:03
I have a question: Have you ever considered writing a book? I am wondering how many more folks could be reached with another avenue or method of communication. Robert Kennedy just published a book exposing Fauci and it's flying off the shelves. Telling your story about how you were treated and perhaps interviewing others and tell their stories would not only help others who are on the fence, but could be very helpful for you financially. I know I would buy it. I'd buy 30! And pass them out! My story is nothing. I had nothing to lose in leaving. I have no family in the organization and I only got reinstated a year ago so the friends I made were not folks I've known for very long. But the anguish some folks go through....omg it just makes me want to cry every time I hear these stories. Anyway, just an idea I thought I'd put out there.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-26 09:14:43
Funny you should mention that. I've been working on a book for the past year. It is in the final edit phase. Next I'll have it sent off to proofread and hope to have it published by February of 2022.
Reply by sincerelyours on 2021-11-26 09:44:52
Yay! Im so excited for this! I will purposely go to every bookstore that is reachable and ask if they have it. I will go on-line and search every store for it. I can really make a stink when I want to! I caught a gal lying about Natural Grocers by writing to the corporate office. Then I exposed the lie with a pages long response directly from the horse. This book will do well and we should all promote this to the Nth degree! You just made my day. ?
Comment by arnon on 2021-12-03 11:54:17
I need your advice:
I promised Jehovah to stop working and serve him and preach. I have enough money to live well until retirement and I will still have a lot of money left.
I promised him I would stop working two years ago but I did not stop working because my wife did not agree and we had a hard argument about it (My wife is an atheist).
Since then I have promised 3 more times (on different dates) to Jehovah that I will stop working even though my wife objects. But I did not keep my promise.
My wife finally agreed that I would stop working at the end of February 2022 (one year before retirement) but before that I promised Jehovah that I would stop working at the end of January 2022.
In the last 3 months I have had a severe problem. My daughter feels strong chest pains. The doctors tested her and still found nothing. She has a few more tests to go through.
Do you think this is a punishment from Jehovah because I did not keep my promise?
Does Jehovah punish those who do not keep His promise (as in my circumstances) in this way?
Comment by James Mansoor on 2021-11-28 18:07:46
Hi Eric and my fellow brothers and sisters,
I had a brief conversation with a friend of mine and I asked him, when Jesus chose the 12 apostles and let’s say 15 years later Peter decides to sack the majority of them and keep only one of them, do you think Peter would have had the holy spirit on him or was it out of selfish ambition that Peter did that?
Interestingly his answer was well if Jesus chose the apostles and call them by name and later on the apostle Peter decides to sack or to relieve them of their duty then he will not be having God‘s holy spirit and will not be a follower of Christ Jesus.
I said to him if Christ Jesus appointed the slave class in 1919 and a committee at that to give their food at the proper time, after all he did not appoint the almost 8000 Bible students at that time he only appointed a nucleus of those 8000, why did Rutherford later on sacked the committee that Jesus has appointed in 1919 and appointed only himself and his secretary? I showed him the evidence and said to him, the evidence cannot lie take a look.
1919 Zion watcher tower Editorial Committee: This journal is published under the supervision of an editorial committee, at least three of whom have read and approved as truth each and every article appearing in these columns. The names of the editorial committee are: J. F. Rutherford, W. E. Van Amburgh, F. H. Robison, G. H. Fisiier, W. E. Page
1932 Zion Watchtower … No editorial committee
Officers : J. F. Butherford President W. E. VAN Amburgh Secretary
His answer surprise me as he said well Rutherford didn’t want anybody to tell him what to do he wanted to become the kingpin and he became the kingpin and anybody that stood in his way was done away with. I wanted to pursue the matter but he declined any further conversation about this topic.
I just thought the thoughts that I am gleaning from this website and planning strategically to get some of my friends to use their critical thinking to find the truth about this organisation is very much well coming.
Love to all
Comment by dokterrudi on 2021-11-29 08:16:48
Hello Eric, I'm very happy that your book will be published very soon now ! I'm working right now on a book about my owm experiences as a witness. (in Dutch).
If you are looking for a translator to traduce your book in Dutch, I am candidate !
RudiReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-29 09:02:53
Thank you for the kind offer, Rudi.
I'll definitely get back to you when the book is nearly complete.
Eric
Comment by sincerelyours on 2021-11-26 10:01:50
JW,
You should always express your heart. But if you feel unsure take this tip: Is it the truth. Is it kind. Is it neccesary. Is it helpful. This was a guideline used at my most favorite job. It really helps managers to stay honest, and not get lazy. I also would add: seek to understand BEFORE asking to be understood. I can be opinionated too and by far I consider it to be my most unfavored trait. Spending too many years in a bad marriage pulled the fighter out in me. So these guidelines just help me stay a little more balanced. Hope that helps.
Comment by Devora on 2021-11-26 10:27:59
Eric,
to say Thank You seems inadequate!-to express gratitude for your ongoing Scriptural stance;being firmly rooted on Christ, God's Word,and with Spirit.
Our worldwide spiritual family are all in this together,and understand the
troubles,that we-by various means and circumstances- are enduring..but with Peace and Joy!in our Hope.
Glad also You made it through that Health scare!
(tho absent longtime on here,I was always with prayers,for You..and All of You).
Unconditional Love to
All here!Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-26 10:59:22
Good to hear from you again, Devora.
Comment by rajeshsony on 2021-11-20 17:11:56
Great job brother Eric! Keep up the good work. :)
Comment by rusticshore on 2021-11-20 19:23:56
Enjoyed. There appears to be no end to the madness that comes from the eight carbon-based lifeforms at the top, and WT leadership.
Comment by Zacheus on 2021-11-20 20:44:46
They take sincerity and smash it to the ground and then trample on it.
Eric thank you for such a detailed account . I hope any govt agencies that might be monitoring this site take well note of the watchtower process.
One is inclined to ask did the Elders have a swastika flag up?.............
My choosing to slowly fade was I feel the right one as I would not put myself through such an interrogation and thereby validating to themselves their own value. I faded as I did not wish two things further.
One, to protect my wife from the stares and comments of being a wife to a dfd husband and two, not to give those of the 'self-righteous class*' a reason to feel so virtuous at my demise.
(* this use of "class" is a criticism of the wt way of having different 'classes' of people. eg the Judas class would be betrayers, the David (( King David of ancient Israel)) class would be those who fell but who later were approved and so on.So I named the 'self righteous" as a class.)
I fear that as the US goes further into social upheaval the paranoia of the governing body et al will become ever more active and 'kangaroo-courts' such as JC interrogations will become ever more common to the extent of becoming daily common practice vectoring in on anyone of any age for any perceived faults.Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-20 22:25:07
One is inclined to ask did the Elders have a swastika flag up?………….
Man that's messed up. That's the Nazi flag symbol you know.
Comment by marielle on 2021-11-21 03:16:59
Merci Éric, pour ce témoignage stressant à vivre, mais édifiant à plus d’un titre.
Ils choisissent de ne jamais parler clairement du motif d’excommunication pour divergence d’opinion avec le GB. (Car ils savent très bien, qu’ils changent eux-mêmes d’avis).
Dans le prochain sujet d’étude WT sur l’excommunication, personne ne saura encore une fois, « que vérifier personnellement ce que disent les Écritures » et ne pas tirer les mêmes conclusions que le GB constituera un péché grave.
Tous ceux qui sont excommuniés ont commis un péché grave dont ils ont à se repentir.
Voilà ce que doit croire la communauté.
Lorsque j’ai posé la question à un ancien : « Quel verset biblique vous permet d’excommunier un frère qui en toute bonne conscience pense différemment de l’esclave fidèle et avisé » ?
Il m’a répondu : « Il n’y en a pas ».
Alors, pourquoi le faites ?
Pas de réponse.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-21 09:18:10
Astonishing! That elder has condemned himself for doing wrong knowingly.
“. . .Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes.” (Luke 12:47)
Etonnant ! Cet ancien s'est condamné lui-même pour avoir fait le mal en toute connaissance de cause.
". ... Et cet esclave qui a compris la volonté de son maître mais qui ne s'est pas préparé ou n'a pas fait ce qu'il demandait sera battu de plusieurs coups." (Luc 12:47)
Comment by safeguardyourheart on 2021-11-21 08:08:45
Thanks very much for giving us another breakdown of this conversation you had based on appealing your case. As I read this article those memories you had and the video back then just keeps coming back. The battle and tension surrounding that encounter was just something else based on only accepting that you go into the meeting with your notes.
This and many others was the reason I didn't bother to give them room for interrogation or questioning. I already see it as a waste of time and resources. In the quest to propagate falsehood the best companion they carry is their AUTHORITY.
So why waste my time knowing all they need is to bring the hammer down without blinking eyes. I didn't give them an hint of what is coming.
I dropped my disassociation letter without raising issues at all with them. They had to come seeking what the matter was and what led to the actions I took of which they left still thinking and still confused as to the root cause considering my position and impact within the congregation.
I left them with the thought that.......I had to take a second look at the organization and after concluding that research I told them that led me to writing a disassociation letter. I don't have the time to share with them my findings at all because the outcome will remain the same. DISASSOCIATION = DISFELLOWSHIPPMENT = THOSE LEADING OTHERS TO SIN.
Why waste my time.
A proverb in our place here states...... "the person that is wicked knows he is wicked, he is only looking for someone to tell him so".
Comment by rajeshsony on 2021-11-21 14:14:40
I agree with your points, but, it's not all just about "owing" anyone anything. You don't have to owe someone something just to do something. If you did, then God wouldn't be giving us the gift of everlasting life, now, would He? Because He certainly doesn't owe US anything, and we certainly don't deserve anything. So, I agree with what you're saying, but someone might have other reasons for doing what they do, other than just owing somebody something. In the case of God, it's His eternal love and undeserved kindness He has for humankind. In the case of Eric, he said so in his video. He's not doing this primarily for himself, or for WT. He's doing this primarily so he can help others by shining light and giving us the truth of the matters regarding WT judicial matters.
Comment by Frankie on 2021-11-21 16:10:23
Hi Eric,
this is very useful and actual theme, thank you for that. You mentioned three options at the end of your presentation – to stare down, what promoted that question and use the Bible. It is very helpful.
Let every of the JWs realizes that he/she is trapped in the cult. So if they are not ready to slam the door, then it is necessary to maneuver wisely.
And I sign your last sentence: “In the end, they will do what they will do. Be prepared for it and have no fear” and I would add -
“So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known ..... Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows” (Matt 10:26, 29-30).
Love to all. Frankie.Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-21 18:00:22
Beautiful! :D
Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-21 20:16:35
Quite so, Just Wondering, quite so. Thank you.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2021-11-22 04:08:26
The question that continually comes up is "Do you believe the Governing Body are the Faithful Slave Of Matthew 24:45".
The answer I give, is that those words are not a prophecy, just like similar words in Luke 12. Are Luke's words a prophecy ? I believe they are a parable. If anyone wishes to know more, I have already answered the question.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-22 12:32:03
When Splane introduced the "new light" in the 2012 annual meeting, he used the example of a waiter that brings you food. Thus, the GB are like waiters. Well, my waiter doesn't tell me what food to eat or how to live my life. In fact, if I don't like the food he brings me, I can send it back.
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 13:32:21
Wow my brother, this is SO useful! This is literally perfect. You don't really need anything more than this to make them speechless. Just need one or two of these questions to ask them and they have nothing to say in return. Thanks so much for this! :)
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 13:40:22
Oh, usually they use 2 Corinthians 3:20-22 to show that since everything belongs to anointed Christians (which is a tautology by definition, but whatever), it only follows that the "other sheep" should willingly obey the top anointed Christians(Governing Body) and do whatever they say. So if you really want to get the idea of total obeisance to the GB out of their minds, you have to first convince them that ALL Christians have the hope of being God’s anointed children, and that includes themselves.
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 17:40:23
It is important not to be thrown by the biblical use of “all” or “every”. It doesn’t mean the absolute, unqualified totality of everything. It just doesn’t.
In 1 Corinthians, it seems clear that the “everything” that belongs to Christians is everything they need, and that is explained in these verses as having spiritual insight and knowledge and having God’s undeserved kindness. But, no, not the unqualified absolute totality of everything – and NOT control over the lives of other Christians.
I 100% agree. And I know that. You gotta tell that to a JW.
For instance, people get upset about the NWT saying “other” in Colossians 1:16 when it says Christ created all other things. But even though “other” isn’t in the Greek, it’s reasonable to say it, because otherwise it would imply that Christ also created God and even created himself – that’s what ALL means – and such an understanding would be preposterous.
Actually, it's not reasonable to add the other. The Greek rendering is completely right with that one. ALL things that were created, were created by Jesus. ALL things. See, created implies, well, creation. And creation implies a beginning point and an end point, from which the creation begins and ends respectively. For that sort of notion, you need time. But, where Jesus and God were at the beginning, there was NO time. Jesus and God are not created entities, so neither could have created each other. That's right, God didn't create Jesus. He just didn't. He couldn't have. Where God and Jesus were transcend ALL dimensions of space(0 dimensions would be a singular, infinitely small point in space. 1 dimension would be a line, ray, or line segment; measured by length. 2 dimensions would be planar and measured by length and width, or area. 3 dimensions would be dealing with volumes, measured by length, width, and height) AND time(corresponding to the metaphorical timestream of past, present, and future; most likely started at T = 0 and the beginning of the universe. Of course, we can't know for sure), a.k.a. 4 dimensional space-time as postulated by Einstein's theory of relativity.
There was also no energy, and, correspondingly(due to mass-energy equivalence) also no objects having mass i.e. matter. So, wherever Jesus and God were, there was no space, no time, no matter, no energy; literally nothing. Jesus could not have been created. All we really know is that, somehow, God was the SOURCE of Jesus. God begat Jesus. How exactly He begat him, well, I'm almost certain our human faculties could never even slightly comprehend how. So, that's one thing we know for sure. God was the SOURCE of Jesus, not the other way around. Jesus was not created, and had no beginning, just like God. But in terms of source and eternalness(?), they are not equal. As well as in terms of power. So, yeah, Colossians is absolutely right when it says ALL things were created by Jesus. It would not be true to add the "other" in it.Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 19:54:23
These are, of course, just my theories, but that’s how I see things.
Good to know.
In the obvious case, omitting “other” still leaves open the possibility that Jesus created himself. Your argument appears to support the Trinity, which I reject. If you then say that Jesus didn’t create himself because he wasn’t created, that contradicts the underlying meaning of the word “begotten”. You can’t have it both ways. Further, if Jesus went around saying that God was his Father, but they both had an eternal existence, then Jesus lied, since no son is as old as his father. It just doesn’t work. The Trinity is false, and any argument that tries to support it is also false.
See, you're not understanding. And that's the point. NO word that we have encapsulates the notion of being "created" outside of time, space, energy, and matter. We don't have a word for it. That's the whole point. If I had a word for it, I'd give it to you, but I don't. You're problem is that you are trying to make sense of it by enforcing your incredibly limited human perceptions of how things work on to it, but that's bound to fail because we CAN'T comprehend how it works. If we did, we wouldn't be humans. Like the expression Eric always uses; we're like a man born blind trying to understand color. The BEST we can do is say that he was begotten. But using a word to describe it doesn't mean that it, well, encapsulates the meaning at every level, or that we somehow grasp the concept. But I think there's a reason the Bible NEVER references Jesus as being a created being; I think they did that for a reason, don't you? Of course, you could disagree with the Bible and say Jesus was a created being, that's fine of course. But don't say that because I believe Jesus was not created that I support the trinity doctrine, because I clearly don't.
Eric has already undeniably proved the trinity doctrine is false. I've fixed it up a bit and made it more technical and presented this argument to other people, and no one as of yet has ever been able to find a way around it, because there isn't any. It's simple. Diminishability(the ability to be diminished i.e. reduced in power) is inversely proportional to power. If you know anything about exponential and logarithmic equations, than you know that the higher you rise in power scales, the less you are able to be reduced in power i.e. diminished, because you have more power to prevent such a thing from happening. God, who has an infinite level of power, must, by the rules of mathematics, have a nil level of diminishability. He CANNOT be diminished, by definition of WHO He is. And yet, Jesus was diminished. A LOT. To the point of death. If Jesus was capable of being equal in all parts to God, He would need an infinite amount of power, but then, his ability to be diminished ceases, and he could never have even bee put into the body of a mere human; let alone die. There really is absolutely no way around this. All you have to really do is accept two axioms: mathematics works, and God has infinite power. IF you think math doesn't work, well, think again, because it's been used for, well, basically everything we have. Computers, phones, buildings and bridges, even going to space. Math undeniably works. Now, with regards to God having infinite power. Of course, no one really knows if He does. I certainly don't. But, the Bible makes it seem that way, so I accept that axiom.
Anyway, the trinity is undeniably false. It doesn't matter what you do; even if you prove the Holy Spirit is a conscious being, you can't get around this. So, no. I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine, so don't say I do. Anyways, have a great day my brother! :D
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 20:24:33
In the obvious case, omitting “other” still leaves open the possibility that Jesus created himself.
So do you believe God created Himself? You must not understand what the word eternal means. God and Jesus could NOT have been created by each other, or have created themselves. They're eternal. All I know is that God is the source of Jesus, not the other way around, and thus subservient to Him.
If you then say that Jesus didn’t create himself because he wasn’t created, that contradicts the underlying meaning of the word “begotten”.
The word "begat" doesn't mean created.
Begat - give rise to; bring about.
Like I said, God is Jesus' source, and He was thus brought about by Him, and that's all our limited minds can grasp. I think begat is the perfect word. Not too many details, no connotations that go along with it. Of course, it doesn't fully encapsulate the meaning. No word we could ever come up with can, because words are used to help our minds comprehend something, but alas, the eternal nature of God and Jesus is incomprehensible. And once again, Jesus is never referenced at a created being in the Bible. It's not like there wasn't a word in Greek for "created". After all, the Bible does say Jesus created ALL things, but not that he himself was created. If the Bible wanted to make it seem like Jesus was created, they could have easily done so. But they didn't. Once again, you can always dispute the Bible, I don't have a problem with that.
Further, if Jesus went around saying that God was his Father, but they both had an eternal existence, then Jesus lied, since no son is as old as his father.
I said this before. There was no time where God and Jesus were. You're using the word "old" to indicate age, both words deal with the concept of time. Once again, no time, so those words don't work. The analogy of father and son that Jesus used isn't a completely true analogy. Analogies, by definition, cannot be perfect, because they make a comparison between things, but if something was perfect comparable to another in every aspect, then the analogy becomes obsolete because the two things are the same. Analogies, by definition, fail at some point. But let's say Jesus' analogy is close to perfect, as perfect as it can possibly be. That means God has a gender. After all, ALL fathers are males, by definition, so God must be male. Actually, let's take it a step further. Now God has a wife. And she gave birth to Jesus. That is, after all, what being a father means. It means impregnating a woman to give birth to a child. You can't be a father without a child, and you can't have a child without a woman, and a woman can't have a child without being impregnated. But we don't believe any of that is true, do we? But then Jesus must've lied, after all, he said God was his father. If the analogy isn't perfect on every level, then it's a lie. Or maybe, analogies aren't meant to be perfect. What about that?
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 17:41:41
And yes I did mean 1 Corinthians. My bad.
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 13:42:53
*empty comment*
Reply by Frankie on 2021-11-22 16:11:04
Hi JW, Your tactics following the example of our Lord is very effective (Mark 11:33), for He is our model and Teacher. I also have used such tactics in the past. The moment you get a question about GB, the chess game begins. If you don't want to slam the door behind you, it's a dangerous move. Your questions are very good.
But there is another possibility - not to deal with GB and not to play their game, but to confess Jesus Christ directly from the Bible: "My Lord and my Savior is only Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18) and He is the only mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2: 5). So there is no other mediator, no man, between me and God. I am directly answering to Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5:10). Is that true?" If the question about GB is repeated, it is possible to answer: "I have already answered".
Nevertheless, if someone will be still persecuted, then let them be happy because in this case they suffer for Jesus' name (Acts 5:41), as Eric also stated in one of his reactions on You Tube.
God bless you, JW.Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 17:59:45
On a somewhat similar subject, WT says only the anointed should partake during the memorial. However, on the night of Jesus’ death when he started this, no one as yet was anointed, since that didn’t happen until Pentecost. Thus, all of the apostles broke the WT rules on partaking. Good thing the apostles were following Christ and not WT.
WOAH! I never even thought of that! Just this fact alone... My brother, you are incredibly perceptive.Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 19:41:55
Bro, chill. No one is confusing you with anything more than a mortal. No need to be so dramatic. I get it, you're humble. But there is such a thing as too much humbleness, where it become pure drama. Incredibly perceptive people are not incredibly perceptive 100% of the time, if you think that's what I was calling you then you're wrong. Also, all these compliments are compliments regular human beings give to other regular human beings. So, don't worry, I don't think you're something more than a human. So just chill, and take the compliment, my brother. :)
Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 20:27:50
There's nothing wrong with humans giving other humans compliments, especially not brothers giving brothers compliments, in fact, the Bible encourages us to encourage others with words of encouragement. Wow, I don't think I've ever used the word encourage so much in one sentence. Anyway, that's all I was trying to do with you. Give you words of encouragement in the form of a compliment. It's not a sin to accept that, so don't worry. Have great day, and love you my brother. Also, sorry if my tone comes off as harsh in other places, I certainly don't desire for it to. So, if I seem a little too harsh in other comments, please forgive me if you would. :)
Comment by ZbigniewJan on 2021-11-22 17:54:36
Hello Eric !!!
Thank you for your relationship with the official separation from JW. A Christian who is drawn to his son Jesus by Jehovah God (John 6: 44,45) automatically withdraws from the human organization. At some point, such a person will feel the support of Jesus, who is his Lord. One is no longer afraid of this religious system. The apostle Paul wrote 1 Cor. 4: 3-5, that He is not afraid of any judgment except the judgment of Jesus Christ. Every Christian comes out of this sect system differently. Some quietly, some with a bang. It all depends on the circumstances. If you leave the organization, you will not receive any documents, so are you obliged to provide the organization with your document? Everyone decides for himself in his conscience before God and Christ. When you leave JW's organization, you can join the congregation of Christ and feel fellowship with your brothers in Christ. When you leave JW, you don't stay alone, you don't leave God or Christ, but on the contrary, you come closer to them.
I greet you warmly. Be joyful and strong in Christ.
Reply by Frankie on 2021-11-23 18:23:58
Hi ZbigniewJan.
Your mention of the documents drew my attention. No one receives any document when they leave the organization, but they don't receive any document when they join the organization. No one can prove that he is a Jehovah's Witness without the Organization confirming it. For example, I was baptized as a baby in the Catholic Church and I have a Baptismal Certificate. Why would I justify my resignation from the organization if I have no proof that I am a member of the organization and I cannot prove it on my own before the authorities? Am I a member at all?
WT places extreme emphasis on the word "Organization" without providing the appropriate certificate on entry or exit. What exactly is that Organization?
But it doesn't really matter, because every Christian has a certificate that no religious organization can give him. That certificate is God's seal:
“And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee“. (2 Cor 1:21-22, ESV).
Love to you ZbigniewJan. FrankieReply by ZbigniewJan on 2021-11-24 17:09:20
hello Frankie !!!!! Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your thoughts very much. I have already benefited a lot from Eric's lectures and many comments on the BP website. From March 2020, I do not use food served by GB. I was born into a family of Jehovah's Witnesses, I am the 3rd generation brought up in this spirit. My grandfather learned the teachings of the US Bible Students from Rassel himself or from his associates. He returned to Poland and was a distributor of researchers in Ukraine and Volhynia. He died in a German concentration camp. My father was an elder in the congregation until his death. Mom, Grandma were in the Ravensbrick camp with purple badges. I value my roots. Until the 1970s, the JW organization had a human face, ignoring false doctrines. Then there is a downward slope. I was 10 years older in the congregation. I was canceled twice, the second time definitely. In the 1990s, I began researching the position of Jesus Christ. I began to speak officially about Jesus more and more often. A brother and a friend of us checked the validity of the use of the name Jehovah everywhere in the new testament in JW's translation. Our research revealed over 40 places where the Lord Jesus was named Jehovah. In March 2020, the last memory of Jesus' death was watched in Zum. It was a terrible impression to hear who should and should not celebrate this celebration. It was the first time I had drunk wine and had bread with my friends. This January, I spoke for three hours with the congregation coordinator face-to-face. I presented all my allegations against JW. I said that I did not care about being disfellowshipped due to the ostracism of the organization. He asked me what my status is in the church. I replied: non-practicing Jehovah's Witness. This is valid from January :) I got to know a new community, not an organization. I greatly appreciate Christian freedom and the brothers' concern for freedom of expression, if the arguments are supported by the word of God. I am 64 years old, thank God for drawing me to his son. I also thank God that I meet such brothers as Frankie, Eric, Sister Fani and many others. Frankie, I hug you tight !!!!!
Comment by ZbigniewJan on 2021-11-22 18:00:51
Of course John :44,45
Comment by ZbigniewJan on 2021-11-22 18:03:00
Sorry again John 6:44,45
Comment by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 22:06:34
Oh, my brother. Let's get some things clear. So many of your comments with regards to Bible truth or WBTS are absolutely amazing and necessary. I don't even know why you are considering deleting them. Please, do not, under any circumstances. They are incredibly useful. I'm dead serious. Please, don't. As for; "I am not sure if I am irritating people..." The only time you ever irritate anyone is when you do something like this, at least, that's how I feel. I'm not so much irritated as I am just confused by how you have such low self-esteem, which is evident by comments like this or comments asking me to refrain from even complimenting you, as that would signify I think you are something more than human. That is the only thing I, personally, am confused about and slightly irritated about. You are my brother, and you have genuinely valuable things to contribute, as we all do. Don't forget that.
Comment by rajeshsony on 2021-11-22 22:11:49
Basically, just remember. No one is irritated by any of your comments, at least I'm not. Just confused by some of them, such as ones like these. 99% of your comments however are full of amazing "spiritual gems", yes, that's a compliment, no don't be offended. You are my brother. You are a brother to all of us. And I think I can speak for everyone here when I say, please do NOT delete any of your comments. We love having you here, and reading your comments. All I, personally, ask of you, is to stop making comments like this one. It can seem a little melodramatic at times. As for wondering if you are "lacking in modesty"? Absolutely NO way at all whatsoever. In fact, the only time I personally get confused is when you're overmodest, not under modest. You have absolutely no reason to feel like you aren't being modest, my brother. :) Love you and have a great day, my brother "just wondering."
Comment by Psalmbee on 2021-11-22 22:33:06
I think you're doing a fine job JW, keep up the good work that's been given you. Perhaps soon you'll have your own site and not playing second fiddle to Meleti. Getting people to come to it is one thing getting them to stay is another. (1Cor 4:7)
Psalmbee,Reply by rajeshsony on 2021-11-24 14:05:38
I couldn't agree more! Christian unity ≠ conformity. That's why I live by these words by Rupertus Meldenius; "In essentials, unity, in non-essentials, liberty, but in all things, charity!"
Although, admittedly, I don't always act like I live by those words, and that can be seen plainly at times. And so I'm sorry for that, my brother. Hope you have a wonderful day! :)
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2021-11-23 04:10:37
Hi JW. We may not always agree with you, and I do not always agree with Eric's conclusions either, while I am pretty sure that some of my comments are a waste of time. However you contribute a lot of very sound reasoning and it is not necessary to delete a thing. We need the exchange of thoughts and opinions because that is the one thing that we have not been allowed for too many years, when all questions have been answered with "What does the GB say". Speaking personally, I really appreciate it when comments make me think, or outline a better approach. Your comments do just that. Sometimes they may be a bit long, but I would not worry. The only thing we should all be careful about is putting others down. It is not necessary,
This forum is the one place I feel safe to have a genuine "interchange" of thoughts. Hold on to modesty. It is not necessary to refute every point we do not agree with, but then that also depends on whether we have something scripturally valid to bring to the table.
I just wanted to come in with my bit in support, for this is what the BP site is all about, getting at the truth and learning how to defend our position, something the Organisation often avoids.
Carry on my friend.
Comment by Fani on 2021-11-23 12:13:22
Effectivement tes commentaires sont souvent judicieux et ce serait dommage de te taire.
Seulement, parfois, "on a l'impression d'entendre que toi ?".
N'est il pas possible de mesurer tes interventions ?
Un juste équilibre : "un temps pour parler, un temps pour se taire".
Pas de fausse modestie. Pas la peine de supprimer tes messages mais la grande longueur de certains commentaires et leur grande fréquence sur un même sujet ne nous facilitent pas la tâche pour que nous, nous intervenions, nous qui n'avons pas la même aisance pour écrire. Peut-être est il possible de les modérer un peu ?
C'est juste mon ressenti.
Continuons à nous encourager en toute simplicité.
Comment by Frankie on 2021-11-23 16:41:58
Dear JW,
we are all glad to have you here. Not everyone has to agree with everything, but the important thing is that we love each other (John 13:35). And when our beloved Lord Jesus Christ comes, then everything will be clear (1 Cor 13:12).
You wrote: "I feel pretty sure I have said too much about too much and need to shut up now." If you feel that you are commenting too often, then slow down, but don't stop completely.
In my opinion, this forum is unique in its focus on biblical topics and in helping our brothers and sisters trapped in WT, whether as PIMI or PIMO. I consider it a relevant counterweight to the Organization. The exchange of thoughts in the Christian church has always been and is important (Proverbs 27:17). This also applies to your thoughts.
As for deleting posts - don't even think of deleting something! Keep going.
Frankie
Comment by yobec on 2021-11-24 14:36:41
Thanks for sharing your experience Eric
It doesn't matter which angle you approach the committee from.
A good friend of mine was asked to meet with a judicial committee as he had been
found to question the teaching of the FDS appointment of 1919.
He too had served as an elder for many years including foreign assignments.
He appealled the decision and showed up.The initial decision to disfellowshipped was upheld.
He thanked all the elders for taking the time to meet with him as he knew how it took away time from their families.
Interestingly,one of the elders on the appeal comitee told me a few days later that he was hoping that he would come back and get re instated as he could see that my friend had a "good heart"Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-24 14:55:12
The elders are so lost, so very lost.
Comment by Psalmbee on 2021-11-24 17:27:34
Hi Meleti,
I'm glad you posted this article now that it's been some time ago since you delivered your walking papers to those thieves of souls. I can remember at the time you were a little on edge with the anticipation of the forthcoming event but was also eager to have it over with.
I don't doubt one bit that now you know it was the best thing to do. You put closure to a situation that needed it for your own piece of mind. The Three who you left in the backroom that evening had to continue to lie to themselves and the congregation going forward even after hearing the truth from you.
Thanks for the article/video.
PsalmbeeReply by Meleti Vivlon on 2021-11-24 17:52:52
Thanks Psalmbee.