Geoffrey Jackson's New Light Blocks Entry into God's Kingdom

– posted by meleti


Within hours of the closing of the 2021 Annual Meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, a kind viewer forwarded me the entire recording. I know other YouTube channels got the same recording and produced exhaustive reviews of the meeting, which I’m sure many of you have seen. I held off doing my review until now because I only had the English recording and since I produce these videos in English and Spanish, I needed to wait for the Society to produce its Spanish translation, which it has now done, at least for the first part.

My purpose in producing reviews like this one is not to ridicule the men of the Governing Body, as tempting as that may be given the preposterous things they say and do at times. Instead, my purpose is to expose their false teachings and help the children of God, all true Christians, to see what the Bible really teaches.

Jesus said, “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Look! I have forewarned you.” (Matthew 24:24, 25 New World Translation)

I confess that it’s wearisome to watch the Organization’s videos. In my youth, I would have eaten this stuff up, relishing all the “new light” revealed from the platform. Now, I see it for what it is: baseless speculation intended to promote false teachings that hinder sincere Christians from learning the true nature of our salvation.

As I said in a previous review of a Governing Body member’s talk some months ago, it is a documented scientific fact that when a person is being lied to and knows it, the area of the brain that lights up under MRI scans is the same area that becomes active when they are viewing something disgusting or repugnant. We are designed to find lies disgusting. It is as if we are being presented with a meal made up of rotting flesh. So, listening to and analyzing these talks is no easy task, I assure you.

Such is the case with a talk given by Geoffrey Jackson at the 2021 Annual meeting in which he introduces what the organization likes to call, “new light”, on the JW interpretation of John 5:28, 29 which speaks of two resurrections and Daniel chapter 12 which, spoiler alert, he thinks refers to 1914 and on into the New World.

There is so much material in Jackson’s New Light talk that I’ve decided to divide it into two videos. (By the way, whenever I say, “new light” in this video the air quotes are assumed, since I use the term derisively as it deserves to be used by serious Bible students.)

In this first video, we’re going to deal with the issue of the salvation of humanity. We will examine everything Jackson says in the light of Scripture, including his new light on the two resurrections at John 5:28, 29. In the second video, to be released a week or two after the first, I will show how the Governing Body, in dispensing more new light on the Book of Daniel, has yet again unwittingly undermined their very own cornerstone doctrine of the 1914 Presence of Christ. David Splane first did it back in 2014 when he nixed the use of antitypes, but now they’ve found yet another way to undercut their own teachings. They are truly fulfilling the words of Proverbs 4:19.“The way of the wicked is like the darkness; They do not know what makes them stumble.” (Proverbs 4:19)

By the way, I’ll put a link to that David Splane revision of “new light” in the description of this video.

So let’s play the first clip from Jackson’s talk.

Geoffrey: Whose names are in this book of life? We’re going to consider together five different groups of persons, some of whom have their names in the book of life and others don’t. So, let's watch this presentation that discusses these five groups. The first group, those who have been selected to rule with Jesus in heaven. Are their names written in this book of life? According to Philippians 4:3, the answer is “yes,” but even though they’ve been anointed with Holy Spirit, they still need to remain faithful in order to have their names written permanently in this book.

 Eric: So, the first group are the anointed children of God which we read about at Revelation 5:4-6. No problem. Of course, whether Fred Franz, Nathan Knorr, JF Rutherford, and CT Russell are in that group is not for us to say, but whatever…let’s not get bogged down at this point.

Geoffrey: The second group, the great crowd of Armageddon survivors; are the names of these faithful ones, now written in the book of life? Yes. What about after they survive Armageddon, will their names still be in the book of life? Yes, how do we know? At Matthew 25:46, Jesus says that these sheeplike ones depart into everlasting life, but does that mean they are granted everlasting life at the beginning of the thousand-year reign? No. Revelation 7:17 tells us that Jesus will guide them to springs of waters of life, so they don't immediately receive everlasting life. However, their names are written in the book of life in pencil, as it were.

Eric Geoffrey, where does the Bible speak of a great crowd of Armageddon survivors? You need to show us a scriptural reference. Revelation 7:9 does speak of a great crowd, but they come out of the great tribulation NOT Armageddon, and they are part of the first group you mentioned, the anointed, members of the first resurrection. How do we know this, Geoffrey? Because the great crowd is standing in heaven before the throne of God, and worshipping God day and night in his sanctuary, the innermost part of the temple, the holy of holies, which is called in Greek, the naos, the place where God is said to reside. This hardly fits with an earthly class of sinners who are not part of the resurrection of the righteous.

If you wonder why Geoffrey Jackson doesn’t share this little revealing tidbit from the Greek language with his audience, I think it is because he is depending on the trusting naivete of his audience. As we progress through this talk, you’ll see him make many statements without backing them up with Scripture. Jehovah warns us:

“The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step.” (Proverbs 14:15)


We are no longer naïve as we once were, Geoffrey, so you’ll have to do better.

Here’s another fact Mr. Jackson wants us to ignore: Armageddon is only mentioned once in Scripture at Revelation 16:16 and in no place is it connected to the great crowd. They are said to come out of the great tribulation, which is only mentioned once in Revelation in this context, and that tribulation is never linked to Armageddon. We’re dealing with a flood of speculation here, as will become even more evident as this talk continues.

Geoffrey: The third group, the goats who will be destroyed at Armageddon. Their names are not in the book of life. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 tells us: “These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction.” The same could be said of those who have deliberately sinned against the Holy Spirit. They too receive everlasting destruction not everlasting life.

Eric: Jackson is saying that Matthew 25:46 doesn’t mean what it says. Let’s read that verse for ourselves.

“These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” (Matthew 25:46 NWT)


This is the verse that concludes Jesus’ parable of the sheep and the goats. Jesus tells us that if we don’t act mercifully toward his brothers, feeding and clothing the poor, attending to the sick, consoling those suffering in prison, then we end up in “everlasting cutting-off”. That means we die forever. If you read that, would you assume it doesn’t mean what it says? Would you assume it means that the goats don’t die forever, but continue alive for 1,000 years and only if you keep acting the same way, will they finally, at the end of a 1,000 years, end up dying eternally? No, of course not. You’d rightly understand that Jesus means what he says; that when Jesus sits on his judgment seat—whenever that is—that his judgment is final, not conditional. In fact, as we’ll see in a moment, that is also what Geoffrey Jackson believes about the goats, but only about the goats. He thinks the other half of the sentence is conditional. He thinks the sheep don’t get everlasting life, but instead get a 1000-year-long chance at attaining to it.

Jesus judges the sheep and tells them that they are righteous and are to depart into everlasting life. He doesn’t say they are provisionally declared as righteous but he’s still not too sure about them so they need an additional 1,000 years before he can be sure to give them everlasting life, so he’ll only write their names in the book provisionally in pencil, and if they continue to behave for a millennium then and only then will he pull out his ballpoint pen and write their names down in ink so they can live forever. Why is it that Jesus can judge the hearts of the anointed within a single human lifetime and grant them immortal life, but he needs an additional 1,000 years to be sure about this so-called righteous group of Armageddon survivors?

In an aside, let us remember that this is a parable and like all parables, it isn’t meant to teach an entire theology, or to create a theological platform for some manmade doctrine, but rather to make a specific point. The point here is that those who act toward others without mercy will be judged without mercy. How do Jehovah’s Witnesses fair when measured against that standard of judgment? Do they abound in acts of mercy? Do charitable works form a visible part of the faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses? If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, can you point to examples of your congregation, not individuals… your congregation feeding the hungry, clothing those who are destitute, providing shelter for the homeless, hospitality for the foreigner, care for the sick, and comfort for those suffering tribulation?

Nuf’ said.

Returning to Jackson’s talk.

Geoffrey: Now let's talk about two more groups, those who will be resurrected in the New World. First, though, let's read together Acts 24:15; there the apostle Paul says, “I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” So, the fourth group are the righteous who have died. These include some of our loved ones.

Eric: “In pencil, as it were”.

This is an excellent example of how eisegesis can mislead us away from the truth of God into the teachings of men. Jackson has to support a doctrine that teaches that the vast, vast majority of Christians are not anointed with holy spirit, do not have Jesus as their mediator, must abstain from partaking of the bread and wine that symbolize the life-saving flesh and blood of our Lord, and must resign themselves to striving for an additional 1,000 years to measure up so they can finally be granted eternal life after facing yet another final test, as if Armageddon wasn’t enough. Of course, there is no place in Scripture—let me be clear—there is no place in Scripture where such a secondary class or group of faithful Christians is described. This group only exists within the publications of the Watch Tower corporation. It is a complete fabrication dating back to the August 1 and 15, 1934 issues of The Watchtower, and is based on a mountain of man made and made-up and ridiculously over-extended prophetic antitypical applications. You have to read it for yourself to believe me. The concluding paragraphs of that study series make it very clear that it was intended to create a clergy/laity class distinction. Those issues have been removed from the Watchtower library, but you can still find them on line. I would recommend the web site, AvoidJW.org, if you are interested in finding old Watch Tower publications.

So, saddled with the need to support an unscriptural ideology to suit his theology, Jackson grasps at a single verse, Revelation 7:17, as proof “because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”” (Revelation 7:17, NWT)

But is that proof? Could this not apply to anointed Christians? John wrote this at the end of the first century and anointed Christians have been reading it ever since. During all those centuries, has not Jesus, the Lamb of God, been guiding them to waters of life?

Let’s look at it exegetically, letting the Bible explain itself rather than eisegetically imposing an organization’s preconceived theological view upon Scripture.

You see Jackson needs us to believe that the Great Tribulation is linked to Armageddon—a link made nowhere in Scripture—and that the Great Crowd of Revelation refers to the other sheep of John 10:16—another link made nowhere in Scripture.

Jackson believes the Great Crowd are Armageddon survivors. Okay, let’s read the account in Revelation 7:9-17 from the New World Translation with that in mind.

“After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd [of Armageddon survivors], which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.” (Revelation 7:9a)


Okay, logically speaking the great crowd mentioned here can’t be Jehovah’s Witnesses because the Organization numbers them every year and publishes the number. It is a number that can be counted. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not constitute a great crowd which no man can number.

…standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; (Revelation 7:9b)


Hold on, according to Revelation 6:11, the only Christians who are given white robes are anointed Christians, aren’t they? Let’s read a little bit more.

“These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation 6:11)


That doesn’t seem to fit with the other sheep of Jehovah’s Witnesses who are not allowed to partake of the wine that represents the lifesaving blood of Jesus. They have to refuse it when it is passed in front of them, don’t they?

That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. (Revelation 7:15)

Wait a minute. How could this correspond to humans on earth who are still sinners during the 1000-year reign of Christ? As I mentioned at the beginning of this video, the word for “temple” here is naos which refers to the inner sanctuary, the place where Jehovah was said to reside. So that means the great crowd is in heaven, before God’s throne, in his temple, surrounded by God’s holy angels. That doesn’t fit with an earthly class of Christians who are still sinners and therefore denied entrance into the holy places where God resides. Now we get to verse 17.

"because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.” (Revelation 7:17)


Okay! Since Jackson loves to make assertions, let me make one, but I’ll back mine up with some scripture. Verse 17 refers to anointed Christians. That’s my assertion. Later on, in Revelation, John writes:

And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son. (Revelation 21:5-7)

This is obviously speaking to the children of God, the anointed. Drinking from water. Then John writes:

16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.’”


17 And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free. (Revelation (Revelation 22:16, 17)


John is writing to congregations of anointed Christians. Notice again the same language we see at Revelation 7:17 “because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”” (Revelation 7:17). Are we to believe that with all this evidence pointing to anointed Christians with a heavenly hope, that the Great Crowd are sinful human Armageddon survivors?

Let’s continue:

Geoffrey: So the fourth group are the righteous who have died. These include some of our loved ones. Are their names written in the book of life? Yes. Revelation 17:8 tells us that this book has been in the existence since the founding of the world. Jesus referred to Able as living from the founding of the world. So we can assume that his name was the first name written in that book. Since that time, millions of other righteous ones have had their names added to this book. Now here’s an important question. When these righteous ones died were their names taken out of the book of life? No, they’re still living in Jehovah's memory. Remember Jesus said that Jehovah is a God not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him. The righteous will be restored to life here on earth with their names still written in the book of life. They did good things before they died, so that is why they will be part of the resurrection of the righteous ones.

Eric: I’m not going to spend much time on this as I’ve already done an extensive video on the application of the sheep and goats parable. Here’s a link to it, and I’ll put another in the description of this video. Witnesses are taught that this parable is not just a parable, but a prophecy that proves that everyone on earth will die eternally. But God promised Noah that he would never again destroy all humans as he did in the flood. Some might think that only means that God won’t use a flood to wipe out all humanity, but that he is still free to use other means. I don’t know, I kind of look at that as if saying I promise I won’t kill you with a knife, but I’m still free to use a gun or a spear, or poison. Is that the reassurance that God was trying to give us?  I don’t think so. But my opinion doesn’t really matter. What matters is what the Bible says, so let’s see what the Bible says when using the word “flood.” Again, we have to consider the language of the time. In predicting the utter destruction of Jerusalem, Daniel writes:

“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations." (Daniel 9:26)


There was no flood, but there was a desolation such as a flood causes, not a stone being left upon a stone in Jerusalem. It swept everything before it. So that was the imagery Daniel uses.

Remember, Armageddon is only mentioned once and it is never described as an obliteration of all human life for all eternity. It is a war between God and the kings of the earth.

The timing of the sheep and goats parable is not tied to Revelation specifically. There is no scriptural connection, we have to make an assumption again. But the biggest problem with the JW application is that they believe the sheep are humans who continue as sinners and who become subjects of the kingdom, but according to the parable, “the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world.” (Matthew 25:34)

The children of the king inherit the kingdom, not the subjects. The phrase “prepared for you from the founding of the world” shows he is speaking of anointed Christians, not a group of Armageddon survivors.

Now, before we get to the fourth group, which is where things really go off the rails, let’s review Jackson’s three groups so far:

1) The first group are the anointed righteous resurrected to heaven.

2) The second group is a great crowd of Armageddon survivors that somehow stays on earth despite being scripturally identified in heaven with God’s throne and are never referenced within the context of Armageddon.

3) The third group are from a teaching parable, gone prophetic, that supposedly proves that the goats are all the non-witness people who will die eternally at Armageddon.

Okay let’s see how Geoffrey is going to classify the fourth group.

Geoffrey: So the righteous ones are resurrected into the New World and their names are still in the book of life. Of course, they need to remain faithful during the thousand years to keep their names in that book of life.

Eric: Do you see the problem?

Paul speaks about two resurrections. One of the righteous and another of the unrighteous. Acts 24:15 is one of the ONLY places in Scripture where the two resurrections are referred to in the same verse.

“And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15)


The other verse is John 5:28, 29, which reads:

“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28, 29)


Alright, fellow critical thinkers, let’s put Geoffrey Jackson’s logic to the test.

He is telling us that the fourth group which comprise an earthly resurrection of righteous ones, yes, righteous ones, will come back as sinners and have to maintain their course of loyalty for a thousand years to get everlasting life. So, when Paul speaks of a resurrection of the righteous in Acts and Jesus says that those who did good things will come back in a resurrection of life, as recorded by John, of whom are they speaking?

The Christian Scriptures answer that question:

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 speaks of a resurrection to “incorruption, glory, power, in a spiritual body.” Romans 6:5 speaks of being resurrected in the likeness of Jesus resurrection which was in the spirit. 1 John 3:2 says, “We do know that when he (Jesus) is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.” (1 John 3:2) Philippians 3:21 repeats this theme: “But our citizenship exists in the heavens, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our humble body to be like his glorious body by his great power that enables him to subject all things to himself.” (Philippians 3:20, 21) Throughout the book of Acts, there are multiple references to the good news concerning the resurrection of the dead, but always in the context of the hope of the children of God, the hope of being in the first resurrection to immortal heavenly life. Perhaps the best definition of that resurrection is to be found at Revelation 20:4-6:

“And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.” (Revelation 20:4-6 NWT)


Now, you notice that it speaks of this as the first resurrection, which would naturally correspond to the first resurrection which both Paul and Jesus mention.

If you had never before heard the interpretation that Jehovah’s Witnesses give to these verses, would you not simply conclude that the first resurrection Jesus mentions, the resurrection of life, would be the one we’ve just read about at Revelation 20:4-6? Or would you conclude that Jesus is just completely ignoring any mention of the first resurrection and speaking instead of a totally different resurrection of righteous people? A resurrection not described anywhere in Scripture?

Is it logical that without any preamble nor follow up explanation, Jesus tells us here not about the resurrection he has been preaching all along, of the righteous into the kingdom of God, but of a whole other resurrection to life on earth still as sinners, with only the hope of everlasting life being held out at the end of a thousand-year period of judgment?

I ask that because that is exactly what Geoffrey Jackson and the Governing Body want you to believe. Why would he and the Governing Body wish to deceive you?

With that in mind, let’s listen to what the man has to say to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide.

Geoffrey: Finally, let's talk about the resurrection of the unrighteous. For the most part, the unrighteous didn't have an opportunity to develop a relationship with Jehovah. They did not live righteous lives, so that's why they are called unrighteous. When these unrighteous ones are resurrected, are their names written in the book of life? No. But their being resurrected gives them an opportunity to have their names eventually written in the book of life. These unrighteous ones will need a lot of help. In their former life, some of them practiced horrible, vile things so they'll need to learn to live by Jehovah's standards. To accomplish this, God's kingdom will sponsor the greatest education program in all human history. Who will teach these unrighteous persons? Those who have their names written in pencil in the book of life. The great crowd and the resurrected righteous ones.

Eric: So according to Jackson and the Governing Body, both Jesus and Paul are completely ignoring the righteous children of God who are resurrected as kings and priests, the first resurrection. Yes, both Jesus and Paul are making no mention of that resurrection, but instead are talking about a different resurrection where people come back still in a sinful state and still needing to behave for a millennium before they can get a crack at everlasting life. Does the Governing Body provide any proof of this wild speculation? Even a single verse that provides these details? They would…if they could…but they can’t, because there ain’t one. It’s all made up.

Geoffrey: Now for a few moments, let's think about those verses in John chapter 5, 28 and 29. Up to now we have understood Jesus’ words to mean that the resurrected ones will do good things and some will do vile things after their resurrection.

Eric: I agree that there is going to be a resurrection of the unrighteous because the Bible clearly states that. However, there is no earthly resurrection of the righteous ones. I know that because the Bible makes no mention of it. So, the idea that this group who have their names written in pencil in the book of life will be engaged in a worldwide teaching work is just fanciful speculation. Everyone resurrected to earthly life in the new world will be unrighteous. If they were judged righteous by God at death, they would come back in the first resurrection. Those of the first resurrection are kings and priests, and as such will have the job of working with the resurrected unrighteous to reconcile them with God. They, that Great Crowd of anointed Christians serving God in his temple day and night, will serve him by educating the unrighteous about the way they can get back into the family of God.

Geoffrey: But notice there in verse 29-- Jesus didn't say “they will do these good things, or they will practice vile things.” He used the past tense, didn’t he? because he said “they did good things, and they practiced vile things, so this would indicate to us that these deeds or actions were committed by these ones prior to their death and before they would be resurrected. So that makes sense doesn't it? because no one's going to be allowed to practice vile things in the New World.

Eric: Just in case you are not clear on what the “old light” was, here’s a recap.

Jesus’ words in John chapter five must be understood in the light of his later revelation to John. (Revelation 1:1) Both “those who did good things” and “those who practiced vile things” will be among “those dead” who will be “judged individually according to their deeds” performed after their resurrection. (Revelation 20:13) (w82 4/1 p. 25 pars. 18)

So according to the “old light,” those who did good things, did good things after their resurrection and so got life, and those who did bad things, did those bad things after their resurrection and so got death.

Geoffrey: So, what did Jesus mean when he mentioned these two factors? Well, for a start we could say the righteous ones, still, when they are resurrected have their names written in the book of life. It's true Romans chapter 6 verse 7 says that when someone dies his sins are canceled.

Eric: Seriously, Geoffrey?! That makes sense, you say? The great scholars of the Watch Tower have taught the opposite of this since I was a little boy and they are only now realizing that their understanding of a doctrine as fundamental as the resurrection of the dead didn’t make sense? Doesn’t build confidence, does it? But wait, if you stop believing in two resurrections of the righteous, one as kings and priests and another as lowly sinful humans, then a simple straightforward reading of John 5:29 makes perfect and obvious sense.

The chosen ones, the children of God are resurrected to everlasting life because they did good things as anointed Christians while on earth, they make up the resurrection of the righteous, and the rest of the world is not declared righteous as God’s children because they did not practice good things. They come back in a resurrection of the unrighteous on earth, since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of the God.

Geoffrey: Even such faithful men as Noah, Samuel, David and Daniel will have to learn about the sacrifice of Christ and exercise faith in it.

Eric: Ah, no it doesn’t, Geoffrey. If you only read that one verse, it may appear that Jackson is right, but that is cherry picking, which demonstrates a very shallow approach to Bible Study, as we’ve already seen repeatedly! We don’t give way to such techniques, but as critical thinkers, we want to view the context, so rather than just read Romans 6:7, we’ll read from the start of the chapter.

What are we to say then? Should we continue in sin so that undeserved kindness may increase?  Certainly not! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how can we keep living any longer in it?  Or do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 So we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also should walk in a newness of life. 5 If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection. For we know that our old personality was nailed to the stake along with him in order for our sinful body to be made powerless, so that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin. 7 For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:1-7)

The anointed have died with reference to sin and so by that symbolic death, they have been acquitted from their sin. They have passed from death to life. Notice that this scripture speaks in the present tense.

“Moreover, he raised us up together and seated us together in the heavenly places in union with Christ Jesus,” (Ephesians 2:6)


Geoffrey would have us believe that the unrighteous who return in the second resurrection don’t have to answer for their sins. Does the man only read Scriptures that are quoted in the Watchtower? Does he never just sit and read the Bible by itself. If he did, he would encounter this:

“I tell you that men will render an account on Judgment Day for every unprofitable saying that they speak; for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned.”” (Matthew 12:36, 37)


Jesus does not expect us to believe that a murderer or a rapist who is resurrected will not have to answer for his sins? That he will not have to repent of them, and more, do so to those he has hurt. If he cannot repent, then what salvation will there be for him?

You see how a superficial study of scripture can make fools of men?

What you are perhaps starting to appreciate now is the incredibly low level of scholarship that comes from the teaching, writing, and research staff of the Watch Tower Corporation. In fact, I think I’m doing a disservice to the word “scholarship” to even use it in this context. What comes next will bear that out.

Geoffrey: Even such faithful men as Noah, Samuel, David and Daniel will have to learn about the sacrifice of Christ and exercise faith in it.

Eric: I wonder if anyone at headquarters really reads the Bible? It would seem all they do is look up old Watch Tower publications and then cherry pick verses from the articles. If you read the 11th chapter of Hebrews, you’ll read of faithful women and faithful men, like Noah, Daniel, David and Samuel who

“. . .defeated kingdoms, brought about righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the force of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from a weak state were made powerful, became mighty in war, routed invading armies. Women received their dead by resurrection, but other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection. Yes, others received their trial by mockings and scourgings, indeed, more than that, by chains and prisons. They were stoned, they were tried, they were sawn in two, they were slaughtered by the sword, they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, while they were in need, in tribulation, mistreated; and the world was not worthy of them. . . .” (Hebrews 11:33-38)


Notice it concludes with the inspiring statement: “and the world was not worthy of them.” Jackson would have us believe that he and his cohorts, towering figures like Anthony Morris, Stephen Lett, Gerrit Losch, and David Splane are the ones who are worthy of getting everlasting life to rule as kings and priests with Jesus, while these faithful men of old still have to come back and prove their faithfulness throughout a thousand years of life, still living in a state of sin. And what astonishes me is that they can say all that with a straight face.

And what does it mean that those faithful men and women did all this so “they might attain a better resurrection”? The two classes that Jackson speaks of are virtually identical. Both must live as sinners and both must attain to life only after a thousand years. The only difference is that group one has a bit of a head start on the other. Really? That is what faithful men like Moses, Daniel, and Ezequiel were striving for? A bit of a head start?

There is no excuse for someone who claims to be a religious leader for millions to have missed the meaning of those verses in Hebrews which conclude by saying:

“And yet all of these, although they received a favorable witness because of their faith, did not obtain the fulfillment of the promise, because God had foreseen something better for us, so that they might not be made perfect apart from us.” (Hebrews 11:39, 40)


If anointed Christians are made perfect by the trials and tribulations they pass through, and they are not made perfect apart from those pre-Christian servants of God, does that not indicate they are all in the same group as part of the first resurrection?

If Jackson and the Governing Body do not know this, then they should step down as teachers of God’s word, and if they do know this and have chosen to hide this truth from their followers then…well, I’ll leave that in the hands of the judge of all humanity.

Jackson now jumps to Daniel 12 and tries to find support for his theological platform in verse 2.

“And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)


You’re going to love the word play he employs next.

Geoffrey: But what does it mean when it mentions there in verse 2 that some will be raised to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt? What does that really mean? Well, when we notice that we notice this is a little different from what Jesus said in John chapter 5. He spoke about life and judgment, but now here it's talking about everlasting life and everlasting contempt.

Eric: Let’s be clear on something. The entire chapter of Daniel 12 pertains to the last days of the Jewish system of things. I did a video on that called “Learning to Fish” which teaches the viewer about exegesis as a superior Bible study methodology. The organization does not use exegesis, because they cannot support their unique teachings that way. Up until now, they have applied Daniel 12 to our day, but now Jackson is creating “new light” and applying it to the new world. This undermines the 1914 teaching, but I’ll leave that for the next video.

When you read Jesus saying that the first group is coming back in a resurrection of life, what do you understand him to mean?

When Jesus said at Matthew 7:14 that “narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it”, was he not speaking of eternal life? Of course, he was. And when he said, “if your eye is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you; it is finer for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Ge·henʹna.” (Matthew 18:9, NWT) Was he not speaking of everlasting life. Of course, otherwise it would make no sense. And when John refers to Jesus and says, “by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men.” (John 1:4, NWT) was not John speaking of eternal life? What else makes sense?

But Geoffrey can’t have us think that way, otherwise his doctrine falls flat on its face. So he cherry picks a scripture out of Daniel that has nothing to do with the New World and claims that since it says “everlasting life” there, then 600 years later when Jesus spoke of the resurrection to life, and he didn’t mention everlasting, he didn’t mean everlasting.

They really treat their followers as stupid people bereft of any reasoning ability whatsoever. It’s actually insulting, isn’t it?

My fellow Christians, there are only two resurrections. This video is already quite long, so let me just give you a thumbnail sketch. I will be dealing with all of this in detail in the series “Saving Humanity” which I’m currently producing, but it takes time.

Christ came to gather those who will oversee a heavenly administration made up of spirit anointed humans who will rule with him as kings and acts as priests for the reconciliation of humankind. That is the first resurrection to immortal life. The second resurrection consists of everyone else. That is the resurrection of the unrighteous who will return to life on earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ. They will be cared for by the kings and priests who are represented by the symbolic number of 144,000, but who make up a Great Crowd which no man can number out of all tribes, peoples, nations and tongues. This great crowd will rule on the earth, not from far away in heaven, because the tent of God will come down to earth, the new Jerusalem will descend, and the unrighteous nations will be healed of sin.

As for Armageddon, of course there will be survivors, but they won’t be restricted to members of any particular religious sect. For one thing, religion will be done away with before Armageddon, because judgment starts with the house of God. Jehovah God promised Noah and through him the rest of us that he would never again destroy all human flesh as he had once done in the flood. The survivors of Armageddon will be unrighteous. They will be joined by those resurrected by Jesus as part of the second resurrection of the unrighteous. All will then have the opportunity to become reconciled back into the family of God and benefit from living under the Messianic reign of Christ. That’s why he selects the children of God and creates this administration. It’s for that purpose.

At the end of the thousand years, the earth will be filled with sinless humans and the death that we have inherited from Adam will be no more. However, the humans then on earth will not have been tested as Jesus was tested. Jesus, and his anointed followers who will make up the first resurrection, will have all learned obedience and been made perfect by the tribulation they suffered. This will not have been the case for Armageddon survivors nor the resurrected unrighteous ones. That is why the devil will be released. Many will follow him. The Bible says they will be so numerous as to be like the sand of the sea. That will probably take some time to happen as well. Nevertheless, eventually many of them will be destroyed forever together with Satan and his demons, and then humanity will finally resume the course God set us on when he first created Adam and Eve. What that course will be we can only guess.

Again, as I mentioned, I’m working on a series of videos titled Saving Humanity in which I’ll provide all the relevant scriptures to support this little summary.

For now, we can come away with one basic truth. Yes, there are two resurrections. John 5:29 refers to the first resurrection of the children of God to heavenly spirit life, and the second resurrection of the unrighteous to earthly life and a period of judgment after which they can attain to sinless human life on earth.

If you are a dyed-in-the-wool member of the other sheep class as defined by Jehovah’s Witnesses and want no part in the first resurrection, take heart, you will, in all likelihood, still come back in an earthly resurrection. It just won’t be as someone declared righteous by God.

As for me, I’m reaching out for the better resurrection, and I recommend you do too. No one runs a race hoping to just win the consolation prize. As Paul said, “Do YOU not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that YOU may attain it.” (1 Corinthians 6:24, New World Translation)

Thank you for your time and listening to this unusually long video and thank you for your support.

 

Archived Comments

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  • Comment by Frankie on 2022-01-24 18:16:10

    Hi Ken,

    I follow up on Eric's answer. Mathematically, we can count any large group of people. For example 10 to the 60th power, which is much more than the possible size of the Great crowd ;-). However, we cannot calculate the final size of a group whose number is constantly changing.
    The solution to your problem would be to determine how many are "few" and how many are "great". Nothing wrong, I agree with James' last sentence, "keep thinking ...", we are Bereans :-).
    Frankie.

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-01-25 03:26:28

      Well put. That's exactly what I said in the comment.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-25 08:02:09

      Bingo!

    • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-25 08:30:43

      Hi Frankie, With the greatest of respect, I had a problem determining how far the word "generation" could be stretched.

      • Reply by Frankie on 2022-01-25 17:33:44

        The GB has solved this problem once and for all, because there will always be someone who knows someone who knew someone who knew someone ........ who knew someone who lived at the right time around 1914. I think that the word "generation" could be stretched up to Armageddon :o) .

        • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-27 07:57:17

          Hi Frankie, I think the point I was trying to make was about the definition of words. Do they mean anything anymore. If "few" can be turned into a "great many" because of relativity, then which other statements that Jesus made can be manipulated. Do I get to keep my overcoat now if somebody asks for it? With respect to Eric, who I have listened to for a long time, his first words to my comment was "I guess". Ken.

          • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-27 08:22:41

            What Jesus said was:
            “13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.” (Matthew 7:13, 14)

            So who are the ones going off into destruction? That would be all who end up being thrown into the lake of fire.
            Who are the ones finding the road to life? That would not be restricted only to those who are the children of God in this age, but to those who reach the end of the thousand years. The resurrection of the unrighteous will result in an earth filled with sinless humans who have been healed by the trees of life.

            We also know that the devil will be released and a great multitude will follow him and be cast into the lake of fire after the 1000 years have ended.

            So from all that, we can take it that the majority of mankind will end up in the lake of fire and a minority, arguably a small minority, will survive and be declared righteous by God.

            If there are 10 billions on earth at that time and 1 billion survive, Jesus words come true, as long as we don't impose our own definition of "few" upon them. You could say that 1 billion isn't a few, but if 9 billion were coming to attack 1 billions, the 1 billion would surely pray to God saying, "Save us, Lord. For they are many, but we are few."

            It is all relative.

            • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-29 09:50:02

              Eric, Who would you class as rich & poor?

              • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-29 14:21:51

                That would depend on the measurement criteria. Are you talking about spiritually rich?

                • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-29 15:45:18

                  In the context of what Jesus said at Mark 10 verse 21 because personally I don,t think I could do that, and compared to somebody who lives in Africa and other countries who struggle each day with hardly any money, I could be considered rich.

                  • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-29 20:35:39

                    I would suggest that if a person has enough money to live his life free from worry, then he is rich.

                    • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-30 04:12:50

                      Eric, Thank you for your answer, but after reading all the comments on this particular article, I have come to the conclusion that the bible is just too hard to figure out. And this has been going on for thousands of years.

                      The Jehovah's Witnesses seemed to imply that if you were a JW, then you had come to an accurate knowledge of the bible and if you left, then you were kind of doomed and there was no hope for you.

                      I've heard so many different interpretations on so many different subjects of the bible, by so many scholars and pastors and vicars and lay people, that it gets wearisome.

                      I think the bible was written in such a way that it is impossible for our tiny minds to figure it out.

                      For me personally, do I need to read the bible from cover to cover, will it make me a better person? Paul said that not many of you should become teachers, yet I think everybody from the local Kingdom Hall came to my house to teach me what the bible says.

                      John the Baptist said Jesus would baptise you with Holy Spirit, so why get baptised in water especially in the name of The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society? Was baptism just a jewish thing like circumcision? Some scholars think so. Ken.

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-01-24 17:26:29

    Hi Ken,

    Genesis 22:17 I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply your offspring like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand on the seashore, and your offspring will take possession of the gate of his enemies.

    What Eric was saying this is all relative, if you think about the above scripture you would know that there is no way on Gods earth that Abraham is going to have trillions of sons and daughters on the surface of this earth.

    I do like the line of your reasoning keep thinking my brother you’re making me think.

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-01-25 04:21:24

      Oh, JW, you're my soulmate. I have been saying for decades (even before I started studying the Bible) that the Universe is here for us, and many years of Bible study have only strengthened me. You are the first "biblical" person with such an opinion that I know. I suppose we won't need any spaceships limited by the speed of light in the spiritual body :o).
      See you at Tau Ceti. Frankie

    • Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-01-26 20:30:17

      "He didn’t create the stars for nothing. Surely some day there will be earth-like worlds throughout the universe where humans would live." Oh, I REALLY hope so!!! This probably will be the case, as it is not just a New Earth that is coming, but a New Earth AND a New Heavens. "Heavens" doesn't refer only to God's dwelling place in the spiritual realm; it also refers to the sky, as well as to space(i.e. the sun and stars in IN the "heavens"). The "New Heavens and New Earth" is most likely a reference to God renewing the entire universe(i.e. planet Earth and everything else a part of the "heavens"), or should I say, bringing into fruition what God already purposed.

  • Comment by Fani on 2022-01-31 12:43:01

    Paul rapporte dans 2 cor 12 …"mais j’en viendrai à des visions surnaturelles et à des révélations du Seigneur. 2 Je connais un homme en union avec Christ qui, il y a quatorze ans — était-​ce dans le corps, je ne sais ; ou hors du corps, je ne sais ; Dieu le sait — a été emporté comme tel jusqu’au troisième ciel. 3 Oui, je connais un tel homme — était-​ce dans le corps ou en dehors du corps, je ne sais, Dieu le sait — qu’il a été emporté dans le paradis et a entendu des paroles inexprimables qu’il n’est pas permis à un homme de dire."

    Paul a reçu des révélations du Seigneur, vu et vécu ce que signifie être enlevé dans le 3eme ciel, dans le paradis et il ne lui était pas possible de dire dans quel genre de corps il a vécu cette expérience, ni pouvoir rapporter ce qu'il a vu et entendu.

    Nous, nous n'avons rien vécu de tel, ni vu le ciel et ce qui s'y trouve, ni entendu ce qui se dit, notre corps n'a jamais vécu de telle transformation.

    Ne sommes nous pas en train de beaucoup spéculer sur ce que signifie un corps glorieux, être enlevés, vivre dans le paradis de Dieu ?

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-02-01 15:17:35

      Hi Nicole.
      As to me, your comments are good and I always like to read them. I'm glad you're here. Let me now make a brief point on your comment. I hope my friend Google translated it well.
      Paul in 1 Cor 12:1-5 says that he only knew people who were in the 3rd heaven or in paradise. He wasn't there himself, he just didn't know if those people were there in the body or out of the body. Outside the body, it may mean that they had a vision, just as in case of John’s Revelation.
       
      My view of the spiritual body is based on Paul's scriptures in 1 Cor 15:39-54 and on Jesus' words and his post-resurrection description (Luke 22:18; 24: 36-43; John 19:20,26). According to Paul, our spiritual body will be similar to that of Jesus (Phil. 3:21). Only in spiritual body we can literally see our beloved heavenly Father (1 John 3:2; Exodus 33:20).
       
      You're right - we know nothing at all about the nature of the spiritual body, or what it looks like in heaven or how we will be transformed. But one thing is certain - God is love and He has certainly prepared fantastic things for His beloved children, and we can look forward to it.
       
      You know, I'm a bit of a dreamer, and sometimes I just try to imagine what's unimaginable (1 Cor. 2: 9). I really don't know if I will be able to meet Just Wondering at Tau Ceti :o) .
      With brotherly love, your brother Frankie
       
      ===========================
      Google translation of Fani’s comment:
      -----------------------------------------------
      Paul records in 2 Cor 12…”but I will come to supernatural visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in union with Christ who fourteen years ago was in the body, I don't know; or out of the body, I don't know; God knows — was carried away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man — was it in the body or out of the body, I do not know, God knows — that he was carried up into paradise and heard inexpressible words that he could not speak of. is not permitted for a man to say.”
       
      Paul received revelations from the Lord, saw and lived what it means to be taken up into the 3rd heaven, into paradise, and it was not possible for him to say in what kind of body he lived this experience, nor to be able to report what he saw and heard.
       
      We have never experienced anything like this, neither seen the sky and what is there, nor heard what is said, our body has never experienced such a transformation.
       
      Aren't we speculating a lot about what it means to have a glorious body, to be raptured, to live in God's paradise?
      ===========================

  • Comment by Ken on 2022-01-27 19:22:42

    Just Wondering, Regarding the comma before or after the word "today" when speaking to the thief. Apparently Jesus used the words "Truly I tell You" 26 times in the Gospel of John alone. The only time he followed it with the word today, was when he was speaking to the thief. Maybe when the thief closed his eyes in death, because there is no sense of the passage of time when you are dead, he instantly opened them again in paradise. Have you ever wondered why the New World Translation of the Bible isn't in the list of Bibles on Biblegateway and Bible Hub. I just wondered. I'm not sure. Ken.

    • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-27 20:13:19

      No, I don't know of any and I don't think I will buying all those other bibles to find out if they are copyrighted. Can you copyright the word of GOD? Isn't that a JW teaching Babylon the Great the empire of false religion, couldn't it be an empire of something else, like confusion. It's hard to get away from JW teachings, I only studied with them for about a year and that was 40 years ago and it had a great effect on my beliefs. I thought that all the beautiful hymns I used to hear when I was at school was inspired by the devil. I still have doubts whether JW's aren't the true religion but then I play some of Eric's videos and that puts my mind at rest. I don't use the name Jehovah because nobody knows how it's pronounced. I would hate to mispronounce his name so I call him Heavenly Father. Stephen prayed to Jesus so we must be able to pray to Jesus as well unless there is some reason not to. Ken.

  • Comment by rajeshsony on 2022-01-26 20:22:45

    Also, you might be strawmanning Eric's position on "heavenly hope", judging by the following excepts from your comment;

    "If people really get changed into spirit persons and gave up their lives on earth, and they only rule for 1,000 years, what happens to them after that? Are they out of a job? Also, how does an invisible spirit person rule over physical persons on the earth? Telepathy? Visions? “Remote control?” The Internet? How do messages and instructions get conveyed from the ‘invisible’ rulers to the physical persons under their authority? Wouldn’t it be simpler and make more sense for kings ruling the earth to be people, where they can see and be seen by those they rule over?"
    "If being in a non-corporeal, spirit body was something that facilitated a good working relationship with humans, why is it that when God sent angels with messages for mankind, they always assumed physical form, and materialized as human beings?"
    "What makes more sense in terms of being a ruler over mankind? To be some invisible, cloud-like, nebulous thing, or to be a real person dealing with other real persons? Which would YOU like to have as a ruler?"
    
    Eric does not believe that those with "heavenly hope"(i.e. ALL Christians) will never live on Earth, or that they will be ruling from Heaven as incorporeal spirits. He knows about Revelation 5:10, and believes that we will be ruling ON THE EARTH for a thousand years, not in Heaven, far off from and totally invisible to all our earthly subjects. So, you're actually completely misunderstanding Eric's position on that.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-27 08:10:39

      Thank you for your analysis, rajeshsony. Very thorough. I also agree that JW was misrepresenting my position on where the anointed will be in the new world. As for what they will do when their work is done, I am sure that God has a purpose in mind not only for them, but for all of humanity.

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-29 20:34:28

        I'm not sure what you mean by "your position seems to alter each time you discuss it". Seem unnecessarily pejorative.

        Perhaps what you mean is that I don't have a firm view of what will happen. I am of the mind that if the Bible doesn't say something clearly, then we mustn't make arbitrary assertions. I believe we will receive a spirit body, whatever that turns out to be. I believe we will be like the angels in that we will be able to assume fleshly bodies so that we can interact with the unrighteous who come back in the resurrection. Those are my beliefs, but I'm open to other ideas.

        • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-30 13:41:22

          JW, you wrote:
          "My other observation is that, whenever this subject comes up, you seem to be almost evasive about it. For instance, you wrote above, “I believe we will receive a spirit body, whatever that turns out to be.” But, what does that mean? Are you suggesting that the Bible is so vague on this heaven hope that you (evidently) believe in so much that it is beyond our understanding – that the Bible can’t be used to determine or prove any answers at all, one way or another?"

          I don't know what I do not know. Is it beyond our understanding, or is it just something that has not yet been revealed? I do not know.

          John wrote: “Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.” (1 John 3:2)

          If John couldn't answer that question, how can I? Can you? What is a spirit? What is it made of? What does it look like? What is heaven? Where is heaven?

          I don't like to go beyond what I can state with a reasonable degree of accuracy and with the confidence that what I teach can be proven Biblically.

          I think your desire to define the heavenly hope beyond what is revealed in Scripture is ill advised. It is the road to scriptural perdition taken by false religion, and I will not take it.

          My faith does not depend on knowing all the details. God has promised me eternal life, and more than that, the companionship of his son and the chance to serve him as a king and priest. Amazing hope. I don't need to know more than that.

          • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-31 06:21:48

            Eric - I am sorry if I have offended you and your followers, It seems to me you were are arguing about which kind of spiritual bodies you were going to put on while one of your followers was asking about repentance and nobody was answering. I feel as if I have been disfellowshipped for asking questions! Concerning baptism, I can't think of anywhere where I can get baptized around here. Which part of the body of Christ is Beroean Pickets, or is IT the body of Christ. If there is anything less than a toe in the body then that's where I think I belong. I too was too was touched by the tentacles of the Watchtower as Rick Fearon puts it up to the point of suicide. So thank you for your help. Ken

            • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-31 09:44:51

              Rest easy, Ken. You have not offended me. I have no followers. However, if others have been offended, I cannot speak for them. I haven't disfellowshipped you. Don't know where you got that idea. In any case, you're free to ask questions. We do have commenting guidelines which we ask everyone to comply with.

              • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-31 12:40:49

                Thanks for your reply Eric, I will rest easy and take a passive roll for a while. I don't trust Google, Tor or the Governments any longer. I don't trust VPN's. I live on my own so nobody has access to my computer except possibly the powers that shouldn't be..I will leave it at that. Best Wishes Eric - Ken

              • Reply by Ken on 2022-02-03 01:25:11

                Eric - The link in your video show notes does not go to your article on The Sheep & The Goats but to The Other Sheep article unless it is different on different computers. - Ken

                • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-02-03 08:23:39

                  Hi Ken,

                  The link at the end goes to the Sheep and Goats video, but when I refer in the video to the parable, the link that appears in the upper right hand corner goes to the Matthew video on that topic.

                  • Reply by Ken on 2022-02-03 09:22:31

                    Thank You Eric

          • Reply by Ken on 2022-01-30 14:04:06

            To All, Didn't Jesus disciples have an argument one day in Mark 9:33-34

          • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-02-01 09:11:38

            I also wish you well, Just Wondering, and commend you to the loving embrace of our Father. I am confident that we will see each other again, and that will be face-to-face in God's good time. Whether our hope is heavenly in a literal sense of living in heaven or whether it is heavenly in the sense of ruling, or whether we will all be bound on the earth, is something we will have to wait to see. But whatever the hope that is held out to us turns out to be in reality, it will be beyond our wildest dreams because our father satisfies the desire of every living thing and will never disappoint us.

            Be assured of my love for you as a brother.

            Your brother in Christ,

            Meleti Vivlon

          • Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-02-01 11:27:42

            "Why? For over 150 years, WT has been dangling a heavenly hope in front of their followers, to entice them to remain members. They also claim for themselves that heavenly hope to project an air of gravitas and authority over their membership. I might argue and disagree with a mere man, but how could I disagree with someone destined to be an “angel” who one day will get to live in God’s very own presence? It makes the Catholic notion of papal infallibility pale into insignificance by comparison.

            As I see it, for those 150 years, WT has been propagating a lie. We are supposed to worship God in spirit and truth – not turn a blind eye to entrenched lies because it’s easier to feign ignorance than to get to the truth of the matter. If it were generally known and understood that there is no heavenly hope, the lies told by WT would be laid bare, and the Pharisee-like command structure they wield over people would crumble into dust. They would never survive it."

            Whenever you try to justify your obsession with knowing what exactly we will be like and where exactly we will live, you come back to WT, saying that you're forced to find out all the details, so that you can expose the terrible teachings of WT. But as I said in a separate comment: "WT’s heavenly hope doctrine is already recognized as a false teaching; your main purpose isn’t to convince us of that(as we already know that), but to convince us that there is no hope of going to heaven at all, is it not?"
            To which you replied, "As such, your final conclusion is thus correct;"
            You don't have to save the world from WT. So, DO you need to know more than that? DO you need to know more than the fact that God has lovingly promised us eternal life if we put all our faith into His Son? Your obsession with figuring out all the details about the what we will be like and where we will live is not aiding anyone, yourself included. As Eric said, I think your desire to define the heavenly hope beyond what is revealed in Scripture is ill advised.

            I truly wish you all the best, my brother. :)

            • Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-02-01 21:38:10

              "But we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that the seeds of the heavenly hope doctrine originated in Eden, in the words of Satan."

              I see you have a new justification now... So, apparently it's a "fact"; if so, I would love for you to show how exactly it is a "fact"...

              "Rather, it is the teaching of demons, propagated for centuries by countless religions in and out of Christendom, and by WT. It is a lie.Am I supposed to be so overcome with happiness and joy for having a hope for the future that I must also give tacit approval to a lie made in God’s name and His son’s name?"

              Anyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't make it true! You have yet to prove any of your assertions, thus they remain baseless and entirely unwarranted.

              I am sorry if that offends anyone or causes me to be labeled as harboring an obsession, but surrendering to a lie merely to get along is not good enough.
              But you haven't proved that it's a lie... Far from it! I responded to your original comment with my own argument, of which you have yet to respond. Until you respond with your sound counterarguments, you have no absolutely no basis to call heavenly hope a "lie", that "originated in the words of Satan", and "is the teaching of demons". I'm sorry.

              Have a good rest of the day, my brother! :D

        • Reply by Frankie on 2022-01-30 06:13:45

          Yes, Eric, what you wrote, that's my long-term belief, as well. In addition, you wrote a very important thing: "... but I'm open to other ideas."
          I always ask Jehovah for the Holy Spirit when analyzing God's Word and always remember these verses:
          - 1 Cor 13:12,  maybe I still see through a glass, darkly,
          - 1 Cor 8: 2,  I don't know more than I know,
          - John 16:12,  God and Jesus give knowledge gradually, according to ones abilities,
          - 1 John 3:2,  what we will be has not yet appeared.
           
          Earth - why not? Heaven - only in spiritual body we can literally see our beloved heavenly Father (1 John 3:2; Exodus 33:20).

          After His resurrection, Jesus showed us how the spiritual body works: Luke 22:18,27,30; 24: 30,31,36,43; John 20:19,26. I'm already looking forward to it ;o).
          But wherever the Lord Jesus puts me, I will be happy there.
          Frankie

      • Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-01-27 11:37:22

        I am sure that God has a purpose in mind not only for them, but for all of humanity. Couldn't agree more! Have a good day brother Eric! :)

  • Comment by gabrieleisele on 2022-01-26 11:22:26

    But what is repentance?

  • Comment by rajeshsony on 2022-01-26 20:11:04

    You make some powerful points(by FAR the best one is the one about the High Priest[Jesus] going into the Most Holy[Heaven] ALONE). I have a few criticisms though.

    You attempt to connect the "incorruptibility" of Jesus' flesh(Acts 2:31) with the incorruptibility of the resurrected in 1 Corinthians 15.
    That is what 1 Cor. 15 is talking about. Those being resurrected from the dead, as described there, are persons that are raised up as perfect, sinless, righteous human beings of flesh and blood, having the same kind of perfection of mind, body and spirit as Jesus did when he was on earth, and like Adam and Eve had when first created.
    Your basis is this: The fact that no power in heaven or earth could make him sin is what made him incorruptible.
    That basis, however, is erroneous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are saying is that Jesus was literally incapable of sinning, and that no one in the universe could ever make him sin, and was thus incorruptible morally. That is simply not true for 3 reasons;

    (1) Jesus the human was tempted. Hebrews 4:15 says, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." The meaning of tempt is to entice or attempt to entice (someone) to do or acquire something that they find attractive but know to be wrong or not beneficial. Satan was capable of enticing Jesus the human to sin because Jesus the human was capable of sinning. True moral incorruptibility means NOT being able to be tempted(which Jesus was). And guess who has it? God. James 1:13 "When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone." God cannot be tempted for the very reason that God is morally incorruptible. Jesus the human was tempted for the very reason that Jesus was NOT morally incorruptible.

    (2) Jesus is the antitype of Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "So also it has been written: "The first man Adam became into a living soul;" the last Adam into a life-giving spirit." Jesus was meant to succeed at what Adam failed at doing. Like Adam, Jesus was born(or in Adam's case, created, but you get the point) sinless. But being sinless does not mean that one is incapable of sinning, as we know that is exactly what happened with Adam. Jesus, although being sinless(like Adam), was capable of sinning(like Adam), though he did not and remained sinless until the end(unlike Adam).

    Thus, the incorruption of the flesh talked about in Acts 2:31 could not have been a reference to Jesus being morally incorruptible(i.e. being unable to ever sin), but a reference to his body not corrupting. Thus, there is no basis for saying that the "incorruptibility" talked about in 1 Corinthians 15 is that of moral and not of bodily. 1 Corinthians 15 IS saying that we will literally be given incorruptible bodies. AND if the "incorruptible" part is with reference to our bodily nature and NOT moral nature, then I don't see any reason to think that "flesh and bones cannot inherit the kingdom of God" is anything but that as well, i.e. that "flesh and bones" is a reference to our bodily nature, not that of our morally sinful nature. Thus, Paul would be saying that literal flesh and bones cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

    This notion(that the resurrected children of God are not flesh, and do not have physical bodies) is actually corroborated elsewhere.

    2 Corinthians 5:15-16;
    "*And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again. 16 So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.*"

    What does it mean that we no longer regard Christ(or each other) according to the flesh? Is "flesh" a reference to sinful nature? Utterly impossible!! Because Paul said that "we once regarded Christ in this way". If "flesh" is a reference to sinful nature, then if we once regarded Christ in this way, then we once regarded Christ as having sinful nature, which is impossible as Jesus was perfect and sinless to the end. Thus, "flesh" can ONLY be a reference to our bodily nature. We no longer regard Christ "according to the flesh" because Christ no longer has a body of flesh and bones, and if not flesh and bones, what else other than of spirit nature? And we no longer regard each other according to the flesh because WE will someday no longer have a body of flesh and bones, but of spirit nature. Hence, Paul is verifying at 2 Corinthians 5:16 what he had said before in 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now I say this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

    Hope you have a good day! :)

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-01-23 23:11:29

    Another beautiful article Eric,

    Two days ago I was having a conversation with a Jehovah’s Witness who is been a witness for more than 43 years and we got to talk about certain practices the organisation has and how they are not in line with the Scriptures… he was amazed at how much Bible knowledge I have to which he exclaimed I could never be a Bible student like you…

    You hit the nail on the head when you said the governing body is counting that the witnesses are a bunch of ostriches who stick their heads in the sand and they don’t want to examine the facts… For example the laughing statement that Jeffrey Jackson makes that there is a difference between life that Jesus talks about and everlasting life Daniel talks about… So when the judge sentence’s a criminal to life in prison, the criminal understands that it is not everlasting???

    Also Eric note how Jeffrey Jackson never mentions messianic Kingdom under the rule of Jesus Christ and he makes the statement that in gods kingdom they will get to know Jehovah…Never mentions Jesus Christ.

    Onto the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous the picture below paints a 1000 words about the righteous and the unrighteous:

    So then the question I ask “what is the point of being righteous if both John the Baptist and this group of unrighteous people get the same opportunity at everlasting life?

    many thanks again Eric

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-24 09:22:40

      Could not agree with you more, James. Thank you.

  • Comment by Ken on 2022-01-23 10:06:13

    Eric, Didn't Jesus say only a few will enter the Kingdom of GOD, doesn't this conflict with this great number that no man can number being in Heaven with GOD?

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-24 09:28:43

      I guess it is all relative. I would view 144,000 individuals gathered together on Mount Zion as a great crowd. The point of Revelation 7:9 is that the great crowd is beyond our capability to number. Now there are about 8 Billion people on earth and we are quite capable of counting that high with modern computers, so it isn't the size of the number which makes it impossible to know. It is rather the fact that only God knows the cut off point.

      “. . .When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.” (Revelation 6:9-11)

      The number of those who are chosen by God as his children will be a great crowd out of all the nations, but by comparison to the overall number of humans who will make up the resurrection of the unrighteous, they are only a few.

  • Comment by Fani on 2022-01-22 13:20:53

    Merci beaucoup Éric pour ton analyse perspicace.
    Psaume 32 : 8 "Je te rendrai perspicace et t’enseignerai le chemin où tu dois aller. Je veux te conseiller, l’œil sur toi. 9 Ne deviens pas comme un cheval ou un mulet, des bêtes sans intelligence."
    Je ne voudrais pas être méchante mais vraiment je trouve que le verset 9 va comme un gant aux membres du GB.

    Que notre Dieu et son Fils continuent à te bénir pour notre encouragement.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-22 15:31:36

      I always love your comments, Fani.

  • Comment by rajeshsony on 2022-01-21 15:31:33

    Woah! Just... Woah! Such an amazing job, my brother. :) I cannot wait for the next part. :D

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-22 09:29:13

      Thank you so much, Rajeshsony.

  • Comment by Zacheus on 2022-01-21 20:12:18

    All a bit hard for me to understand but this isnt.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuWT4flyl-k

  • Comment by vitisbp on 2022-01-22 02:18:40

    Eric,
    These were my two favorite parts of this video.
    1. When we hear a lie, the same part of our brain is activated as is activated by anything that disgusts us.
    2. I like the way that you approached the really enormous feat of prying us away from years, decades, and lifetimes of “Watchtower-speak” indoctrination. You inserted the words “[of Armageddon survivors]” into a scriptural text that has always been used “thus” by Watchtower. In the minds of JW’s, the terms “great crowd” and “Armageddon survivors” are inextricably linked. But we need to use exegesis. We need to force our brains to create a new neural circuit, one which conforms to the reality of what the scripture says. It takes time and effort to free ourselves, because this Watchtower teaching has become entrenched in our minds and our belief system.

    So now, I’ll quote that spot where you helped us de-program ourselves.

    “You see Jackson needs us to believe that the Great Tribulation is linked to Armageddon—a link made nowhere in Scripture—and that the Great Crowd of Revelation refers to the other sheep of John 10:16—another link made nowhere in Scripture.

    Jackson believes the Great Crowd are Armageddon survivors.
    Okay, let’s read the account in Revelation 7:9-17 from the New World Translation with that in mind.

    “After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd [of Armageddon survivors], which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.” (Revelation 7:9a)”.

    Thanks Eric. You explain this in a way that accesses and then “breaks” the tenacious “mental loop” Watchtower created for its followers.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-22 09:08:07

      Thanks, vitisbp. I appreciate the positive feedback. Yes, it is vital for us to re-program our brains. To let the grass grow again on the long trodden down paths of thinking and to create new neural pathways. Much appreciated!

  • Comment by PierrotSud on 2022-01-22 06:28:07

    Thank you once again Eric for your hard work, relentless, to let the light appear against the darkness.
    I don't watch the JW stuff anymore and when I listen to some of it, it's really disgusting. Somewhere in our brain is scarred raw.
    Being a member of a second group that is written in the book of life "in pencil", but who are we kidding? These men stand before God and determine who or what is not entitled to the first resurrection.
    Since I opened my eyes, I am comforted that since I accepted Jesus, his sacrifice, I have the prospect of being entitled to the heavenly hope.
    What a shame to say that all the ancient servants of God, from Abel, to the first Christians, and up to our time, will have to spend another 1000 years to prove their faithfulness. This is an insult. Did the members of the Gouvernement Body prove their faithfulness in the trial? Did they lift a finger when our brothers in Malawi were being slaughtered because they did not take the party card?
    Jesus will judge them very severely.
    Pierre

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-22 09:05:33

      Well put, PierrotSud. There doctrine is an insult to the memory of those ancient faithful ones.

  • Comment by Aleks Kristiani on 2022-01-22 16:55:42

    A very valuable article this brother Eric ,,,, Really when I learned about the true Christian hope in this forum even that 144,000 was a symbolic number ,,,,, even that it was on earth and not for the anointed to stay in heaven with Christ not to be seen anymore ,,,, but that was an earthly hope I realized that the New Covenant was for me and that the words of Jesus were valid for me ,,,, this made me grateful and established a very good relationship strong with my Father Jehovah .....

  • Comment by marielle on 2022-01-22 14:33:23

    a century of study to realize that John 5:29 was written in the past and not in the future. This is not trivial for one who is the channel of God on a subject as important as the resurrection.
    thank you very much for this deepening in the respect of the Scriptures

    • Reply by Domine Ivimus on 2022-01-23 18:47:39

      Exactly! The organisation has always acknowledged that the verse is in the past tense, but told us that it didn't MEAN the past tense (because that didn't fit their teachings). So once again changing the Bible to fit their beliefs, rather than the other way round

  • Comment by making sure on 2022-01-24 14:21:06

    So the organisation teaches that there are 3 resurrections, one heavenly and the other two on earth, the righteous and unrighteous. The Bible though clearly reveals just 2 resurrections. This is a revelation to me.
    My indoctrination runs deep after nearly 40 years in the organisation but I am overcoming it.

    I would say that the most valuable lesson I have learned from this site is the importance of exegetical study. That along with critical thinking.
    It’s a joy to learn what God’s Word is really teaching after all these years.

    Thank you Eric. Listening to these GB members isn’t easy when you know they are speaking of their own originality.

    • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-01-24 17:42:30

      Making sure,

      I have stopped listening to any updates or to the governing body members or any talks that they give for a number of years now, however my wife does, she rather listen to men than Jehovah’s inspired word.

      As of this month I have decided to stop ? reporting my field service, this is after 50 years of being in association with this organisation… I only listen to the Bible and compare different translations.

      Making sure, what I have discovered from reading different translations, there is no such thing as “ undeserved kindness”. look it up in the kingdom interlinear.

      Since I have been reading and listening to the Bible, I have discovered there is no such word as… exercise, exercising, exercises, your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ just the word believe and believing… again look it up in the kingdom interlinear of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

      Making sure do share some of the gems you have discovered or that have made you disillusioned.

      Many thanks for your participation

      • Reply by rudytokarz on 2022-01-28 11:10:35

        James Mansoor,
        I am also in a similar position; I stopped turning in almost 3 years ago but I do listen in to the meetings (no audio/video though). The reason that I do is to better clarify the Scriptures that disprove many of the JW doctrines. Along with listening in to the meleti.vivlon meetings and following this and other sites, I believe that I am coming to a more accurate understanding of the Scriptures. (By the way, no elder has ever approached me on this or any other topic even though I was an elder for 11 years).
        A few things that I will say for JWs is their sincerity and efforts in some areas such as morality, keeping on the watch and efforts in attempting to reach others. Although there are many inaccurate and misleading doctrines and policies that they follow, is that any different than other religions? All religions believe that they are right but the problem comes in when JWs will officially ostracize you and convince all your friends and family to do the same. But ALL of them (GB included) are 'followers of followers' as Ray Franz described. They do not have any special position with God but they will never except that fact.
        That is why that I don't say much to ANYONE including my PIMI wife, friends or family. I have left Scriptural 'breadcrumbs' for my wife and sister/brother-in-law and these have been taken with the "Well maybe but...GB/light gets brighter/don't run ahead/God's only organization." They all will follow corporate policy before the Bible since they cannot un-believe what they have been "taught from infancy".
        Keep up your faith in God, Christ and the Scriptures..."The Truth is out there".

        • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-01-28 17:34:15

          Hi rudytokartz,

          Many thanks for your reply it’s difficult to get someone to listen to the word of God rather than the words of men as you have experienced even though you where an elder for a number of years.

          On many occasions I was asked if I wish to serve but I always declined and the reason why, because of organisational procedures.

          As you have mentioned you have similar circumstances with your wife that I have.

          The other day I asked her a question about Acts chapter 5 were the apostles were ordered not to preach, and their reply was we must obey God as ruler rather than man… Then I asked her why did the brothers stop preaching in Russia? Didn’t Jehovah send his angels to free the apostles so that they can continue to preach? Doesn’t the organisation have the same Holy Spirit as the apostles?

          Well, you have heard it before, her reply as usual I presume the same as your wife, you always pick on the organisation.

          I find the more I listen to the Bible the more powerful I become in my line of reasoning and it’s true when the apostle Paul wrote that God’s Word is alive and exerts power and sharper than any two edged sword.

          The organisation claims they are the only ones who use the Bible correctly, then, they have to listen to what the Bible says.

          If you have any spiritual food that you have discovered please do share I am sure there are many, many brothers and sisters who would love to hear from brothers like yourself and making sure.

          Again well done my brother I am more than happy to correspond with you on a personal basis if you wish, ask Eric to forward you my email address.

          May Jehovah and Jesus bless all your efforts.

      • Reply by making sure on 2022-01-26 06:59:54

        Thank you James for your comments.
        As the word “organisation “ also is never used in the Bible, I no longer use it in my “theocratic vocabulary.”
        Interesting article in the Watchtower issue of February 2022 titled “Do you trust in Jehovah’s way of doing things?” Paragraph 15 makes two points. 1) The need to obey all instructions from God’s appointed representatives during the Great Tribulation. 2) Not to question the direction.
        Makes me think of Psalm 146:3 and 1John 4:1. I have never seen direction contrary to scripture as this before.

        • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-01-26 17:36:16

          Making sure,

          I have always enjoyed your comments. And you are right about the above Scriptures I have always used them when I am talking to brothers and sisters who should be our leader.

          My brother you have such a wealth of knowledge and experience I really would love you to grab an article or even think of an article and just posted on this website and I am sure Eric will be more than happy to have it done so.

          Mate if only you were living in Australia, we would be having such incredible talks and sharing some wonderful experiences…

          Eric is it okay if you can forward my email address to making sure I really would love to communicate with him if that is okay with you making sure.

          Take care

          • Reply by making sure on 2022-01-27 07:47:11

            Hi James,
            I have difficult personal circumstances at present. I hope to enjoy greater freedom in the future. When that happens we can email for sure. Thanks for your kind consideration.
            May Jehovah bless you.

            • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-01-27 18:24:34

              Hi making sure,

              No worries my friend I also do you have difficult circumstances and that’s my wife who is at the moment doing letter writing and as I have mentioned earlier I have decided not to put in any more field service report and I suppose my personal faith in the scripture where the Lord Jesus said do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doing when you are making a personal gift and for me field service or speaking about Jehovah and Jesus is a personal gift so why should I advertise it?

              Please keep your comments coming I thoroughly enjoy them.

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-01-25 08:04:41

        Quite right James. Thanks for sharing that. "Ambassadors substituting for Christ" is another misleading addition to the NWT.

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-01-27 17:45:25

    Proverbs 18:17 The first to state his case seems right, Until the other party comes and cross-examines him. 

    You said “Consider: If people really get changed into spirit persons and gave up their lives on earth, and they only rule for 1,000 years, what happens to them after that? Are they out of a job? Also, how does an invisible spirit person rule over physical persons on the earth? Telepathy? Visions? “Remote control?” The Internet? How do messages and instructions get conveyed from the ‘invisible’ rulers to the physical persons under their authority? Wouldn’t it be simpler and make more sense for kings ruling the earth to be people, where they can see and be seen by those they rule over?”

    Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So my ways are higher than your ways And my thoughts than your thoughts.

     Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.

    John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you still do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?  

    You have mentioned the example of Eve who wanted to be like God Who wanted to know everything even though she was perfect in every way but that was not enough for her, basically what she said I want to be God… How about you just wondering would you like to be like God?

    You said “Does this sound to YOU like God needs anyone’s advice on how to run the kingdom? Even from so-called resurrected anointed Christians transformed into angel-like spirit persons? What about Christ? Search the Gospels as you might, you won’t find a single case where Jesus ever asked any of his apostles for advice on how to conduct his preaching campaign. If God doesn’t need anyone’s advice, and Jesus never asked for any, what makes you think those supposed 144,000 rulers are now suddenly going to be zoomed up to heaven so they can put in their two cents worth on how to micro-mange the kingdom, because – for some inexplicable reason – God and Christ can’t handle the job alone and need the help of mere humans?”

    1Kings 22:19 Mi·caiʹah then said: “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne and all the army of the heavens standing by him, to his right and to his left.  20 Jehovah then said, ‘Who will fool Aʹhab, so that he will go up and fall at Raʹmoth-gilʹe·ad?’ And one was saying one thing while another said something else.  21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before Jehovah and said, ‘I will fool him.’ Jehovah asked him, ‘How will you do it?’  22 He replied, ‘I will go out and become a deceptive spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ So he said, ‘You will fool him, and what is more, you will be successful. Go out and do that.

    Jehovah accord’s dignity to his spirit creatures and also to humans as well… Jehovah always knows the answer and the outcome to any situation as the above Scriptures reveal. And that’s good enough for me maybe not for you.

    You quoted the scripture: “In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.” John 14;2-3

    If I have invited seven people to come to my house for dinner and they do not have a means of transport and my car can only take 5 people including myself, wouldn’t it be logical for me to take 4 people and then come back and get the rest so we can all be together at once… do you think this is a feasible explanation for the above scripture?

    As for the criminal who was impaled next to Christ Jesus how about looking at it in the light of these versus Luke 19: 8 But Zac·chaeʹus stood up and said to the Lord: “Look! The half of my belongings, Lord, I am giving to the poor, and whatever I extorted from anyone, I am restoring four times over.”  9 At this Jesus said to him: “Today salvation has come to this house, because he too is a son of Abraham.  10 For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost.”

    Repentance was there as you have stated concerning the criminal… Given the opportunity he would have been baptised in the name of Jesus Christ and produced fruits that befitted repentance.

    As you already know Jesus is well aware of the hearts and the intentions of the people so how do you know he was not referring to a heavenly paradise? Revelation 2:7 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

    You made me think and I thank you for that… My suggestion for you since you are a studious of the Bible is to pick one or two topics and please don’t write a long journal be brief and precise to the point and see how many brothers and sisters will comment.

    Thanks again for making me think

    • Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-01-27 22:32:01

      If the “heavenly hope” doctrine were recognized as a false teaching, WT’s hold over its members would be seen for what it is – as a long-running lie – and their empire would collapse like a house of cards.
      But you weren't primarily trying to disprove the WT's "heavenly hope" doctrine. You are trying to fully abolish the hope of anyone going to heaven, as seen in your words; "consider it as a whole, as evidence of the main point, which is that no one is going to heaven."

      One need not obliterate the hope of going to heaven entirely in order to disprove WT's "heavenly hope" doctrine; Eric has already done so. He's shown why it makes no sense for the 144,000 to be a literal number, because its constituents(that is, 12,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel) are purely symbolic, or should I put it in such terms as, if one were to say that the number 144,000 is literal, they would have to say the same about the parts that make up its sum(i.e. the number of those going to heaven is limited solely to the Israelites that make it up). Symbolic number + symbolic number = literal number? That's entirely nonsensical! Also, Eric has brought up Revelation 5:10, showing how the NWT translates the Greek word ἐπὶ incorrectly, and how it's primary meaning is not that of "over" but "upon/on", meaning that Revelation 5:10 is saying that we will rule UPON the Earth itself.

      Basically, WT's heavenly hope doctrine has already been disproved by (1) showing that the number of anointed Christians is not limited to 144,000 and (2) that they(those kings and priests) will not be only in heaven, never living on the Earth, but will actually be ruling ON the Earth. WT's heavenly hope doctrine is already recognized as a false teaching; your main purpose isn't to convince us of that(as we already know that), but to convince us that there is no hope of going to heaven at all, is it not? Well, that's completely different.

      • Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-01-28 16:29:55

        As such, your final conclusion is thus correct; there is indeed no hope of going to heaven at all.
        My final conclusion that your goal was to prove that there is no hope of going to heaven is correct; that, however, has no bearing on whether or not you actually did prove that there is no hope of going to heaven at all. And you didn't; I replied to your original comment, showing the errors you made in 1 Corinthians 15, and added a bonus that even further substantiates my claims(i.e. 2 Corinthians 5:15-16). You have yet to reply to that, offering any rebuttals, hence it would be erroneous for you to say that you have fully proved that there is no heavenly hope.

  • Comment by Eel_Nayrb on 2022-02-11 16:25:48

    I read a quote today that profoundly sums up what most JW's think of as "Truth" it said:

    Most people don't really want the truth, instead they just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth". (This was a captioned of an old man sitting in front a picture fire while trying to get warm from the picture)

    I on the other hand don't want to give up searching for truths from the bible Matthew 7:7.

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-02-02 00:24:03

    Good afternoon Eric,
    In my spare time I thought I would look at some of the things that you have posted before and I came across this appeal from you and I’m wondering what happened to the couple:

    An Appeal for Prayer
    by Meleti Vivlon | May 28, 2016 | Announcements | 8 comments
    The power of prayer is something we recognize and when many pray for someone in need, our Father takes note. Thus, we find appeals like Colossians 4:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:25 and 2 Thessalonians 3:1 where the community of brothers and sisters is asked to pray.
    There is an older couple in our online community who are going through a difficult time. The sister has posted as Orchid61 in the past. Her husband has resigned his position in the congregation out of conscience, declining to inform the elders—despite their insistence and probing questions—as to the reasons. Nevertheless, the elders are pushing and want to meet with them, even though the brother has told them it is not necessary. This is extremely trying emotionally for these dear ones. So as Paul asked for himself, I now ask of you to “carry on prayer” for them. (2Th 3:1) For the prayer of the righteous has much force. (Ja 5:16)
    May the spirit of the Christ dwell in us all.
    Your brother,
    Meleti Vivlon

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-02-04 16:56:56

    Good morning Brothers and sisters,

    There is a wealth of information on this website from the archives, from time to time I will post some of the things that I personally feel that is so beautiful so well presented and I hope I’m not going to be boring anyone of you:

    Below is a contribution of what Truth_Seeker said

    I enjoy these discussions because they are open and frank, with no ‘know it all’ attitude. I always suggest that we ‘not throw the kid out with the bathwater’. 

    We studied the Bible as Jehovah’s Witnesses, even though with Watchtower-colored glasses. That doesn’t make some of the good points we learned invalid. 

    None of us have seen the invisible realm so, whatever theology we subscribe to, we have to prepare for the eventuality that we may have to throw cherished ideas overboard ‘when the Lord comes’. 

    This awareness helps us to respect other’s ideas that at least should be heard. We keep an open mind for things that do not require to be acted upon immediately. We need to keep praying to better our relationship with our Redeemer, who has been notoriously neglected by Watchtower. 

    I believe this gives us serenity. At least for myself, I can’t function any other way.

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-02-04 17:04:51

    From the archives:

    Messenger wrote concerning Jesus coming in 1914:

    WT needed to manipulate some other scriptural meanings to support their revised idea about 1914. But they did so ineffectively. One of their ideas was its teaching that Parousia means presence instead of coming. Really that idea doesn’t support their argument concerning 1914 at all.

    What difference would it make? None that I could see, because of what Christ said about that in his answer on the Mount of Olives-See Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

    Christ said everyone on Earth will see a miraculous sign of the Son of Man when he returns, when he answered that question. Therefore, it does not matter if his disciples used the word presence or coming, when they asked Christ for those signs on the Mount of Olives.

    Because when Christ answered that question about his parousia he stated the WHOLE WORLD will see a MIRACULOUS sign of his return. That contradicts WT’s teaching he returned, but NOBODY saw any miraculous sign of his return, which is the only reason WT puts forth that argument of theirs about Christ’s invisible presence, stating Christ is invisible so that’s why no one saw him return.

    He might be invisible, but he explicitly stated his miraculous sign would not be. Thus that WT argument is easily defeated.

    It should also be noted that the disciples DID NOT ask for a sign of the last days as WT teaches they did. Their questions were three fold.

    First, when will these things be-the destruction of the Jewish temple? Or what sign proceeds that? Second, what will be a sign of your (Christ’s) coming or presence? And finally, what will be a sign of the end of the age? The actual end of the age, not a sign of last days proceeding an end.

    Out of those three gospel writers Matthew was the only apostle among them, and he was the only one among them actually present to hear what Christ’s reply was to those questions, and to actually hear the questions.

    Matthew is also the only one among the three who included those last two questions in his gospel. Notice how he combined questions two and three into one question. And also notice in doing that he defined “end of the age” as a period when Christ returns, not when Jerusalem would be destroyed. “Tell us what is the sign of your coming and the end of the age?”

    All three gospel writers recorded Christ’s answer to that last double question, after they recorded Christ’s answer concerning the sign of Jerusalem’s destruction.

    Food for thought.

  • Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-02-07 12:48:58

    Eric, if someone hasn't said it already, you sum it up so well when you say:-

    there is no place in Scripture where such a secondary class or group of faithful Christians is described. This group only exists within the publications of the Watch Tower corporation. It is a complete fabrication dating back to the August 1 and 15, 1934 issues of The Watchtower, and is based on a mountain of man made and made-up and ridiculously over-extended prophetic antitypical applications. 

    Could not have put it better.

    You also stated :-

     I wonder if anyone at headquarters really reads the Bible? It would seem all they do is look up old Watch Tower publications and then cherry pick verses from the articles. 

    That is exactly how it seems to be. Ask a question on something about JW teachings or the Bible, say "how did you reach that conclusion" or "What about this line of reasoning" and what do we get ? Whatever the Watchtower said on the subject that gets rid of the person asking the question, followed by "If you have other questions, ask your local elders". I am sure I do not need to explain the potential consequences of doing that.

    You, Eric, speak the truth. The Organisation do not seem to think it is important.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-02-07 16:04:36

      Thanks, Leonardo.

  • Comment by mattlunsford on 2022-02-15 00:22:04

    Here are some interesting thoughts from my personal study of the Bible. The majority of prophecies found in the Scriptures do not have exact dates attached to them but their order is revealed to us. There are various event markers in the Scriptures that reveal to us the order events and how they will progress in the future. Logic can be applied to help us to have a degree of understanding of the order of future events. Maybe I am wrong about these but I do find it interesting and this is how I understand these scriptures:

    Jesus told the disciples

    Matthew 28:20

    "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

    When is the conclusion of the system of things or end of the age?

    The apostle Paul answered at

    1st Corinthians 15:24-26

    24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

    Therefore, the "conclusion of the age" or "the end of the system of things" happens after the destruction of death as was just stated at 1 Corinthians 15:26

    When is the beginning of Christ's rulership?

    Jesus answers at

    Matthew 28:18

    "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me"

    Now we have the starting point and the ending point. Jesus Christ was given all authority and power in the first century and his rulership ends after God destroys the "Last Enemy Death" or puts "Death underneath Jesus feet." Both expressions are synonymous.

    When will death be destroyed?

    Revelation 20:14

    Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

    Death and Hades are destroyed after the 2nd Resurrection. At this point, we also learn in the preceding verse at Revelation 20:10 that Satan has already destroyed.

    When is the judging of the sheep and the goats?

    Matthew 25:41 states of the goats

    "Then he will to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire Prepared for the devil and his angels.

    The judging of the sheep and the goats happens before the destruction of Satan and the Demons and therefore before the 2nd resurrection.

    On what basis will resurrected ones "2nd resurrection" be judged?

    Revelation 20:12,13 states

    12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

    The judging of resurrected individuals is not based on their supporting Christ's brothers; (although it may include this) but primarily they are judged according to the things written in the books, their deeds or works.

    What else is revealed about the judging of these individuals?

    Jesus answers at

    John 12:48

    "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day."

    I understand the last day to be the time of the 2nd resurrection. The individuals just described those who rejects Jesus' word which are ultimately God's words. Jesus' words will never pass away because they came from the Father. Therefore, what Jesus said and taught on earth will always be a basis for Judgement but the judging of the world will not happen until after Jesus arrives. Therefore those who reject Jesus in this life will still get another opportunity in the 2nd resurrection to accept Jesus' words and choose life.

    Will wicked individuals get a second chance?

    Jesus said at

    Matthew 11:23

    And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

    Jesus revealed that even those who rejected him will get another chance in the 2nd resurrection. The wicked sodomites are included in this as well. If they were alive to witness Jesus miracles, the would have repented and survived much like the Ninevites.

    To further emphasize this thought,

    What does God say about the future life for the Sodomites, Samaritans and the wicked Israelites?

    Speaking of the Israelites and their wickedness, God compares them to the Sodomites. Notice what he says of future of wicked Israel, Sodom and the Samaritans at verse 53

    Ezekiel 16:49,50

    “’Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen."

    Ezekiel 16:53

    "But I will restore Sodom and her daughters from captivity, as well as Samaria and her daughters. And I will restore you along with them."

    I have alot more to share but this is enough for now. I do not claim any authority but I think this is the correct way to understand these scriptures. Some of this I learned through personal study, from this site and Studies in the Scriptures (CT Russel) and others. Regardless, if it is a Truth then it will always be a Truth. If it is false then these thoughts will fade away. Thanks for your time.

  • Comment by cooper on 2022-02-19 14:31:09

    I find this theory highly unlikely, you seem to have missed the point being made in hebrews, which is that the much greater sacrifice of God's own son allows all Christians into the most holy places.

  • Comment by BrMH on 2023-12-30 12:47:28

    Geoffrey Jackson’s New Light Blocks Entry into God’s Kingdom

    Dear Eric, I’ve just watching your postings on YouTube and I past by this one about New light blocks entry into Gods Kingdom.

    I’ve always believed that the bible has the answers and we should keep to the scriptures and let it explain / tell us what to believe, as far as we understand. (And what we do not understand now, we should wait, time will show, I believe) (I never “understood” 1914 and “this generation”, among others..;)

    In the part you are quoting from revelation 20:4-6
    “And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.  (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.” (Revelation 20:4-6 NWT)
    Now, you notice that it speaks of this as the first resurrection, which would naturally correspond to the first resurrection which both Paul and Jesus mention.

    (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This sentence draw my attention, because if this stating is to be understood literally, then a lot of things making sense :

    1. The first resurrection is the anointed who’s going to rule as kings with Jesus in the heaven, (Assumably 144.000) ~Rev 7:4
    2. The rest of the dead will be resurrected after the 1000 years (according to rev20:5 {As to my understanding as perfect humans} Why?

    In Rom 6:23 “For the wages sin pays is death but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. ”

    So when we die, we will have “payed” for our sins, thus a resurrection as perfect humans can be granted, man will become like Adam and Eve who dint had the “evil” inclination, before tempted by the serpent. So when they (great crowd) come back to life after the armageddon survivals have become perfect during the 1000 years, they will have a resurrection to either “Righteousness or Unrighteousness” They must choose to serve God, In order to live. According, if understood right: Rev 20:5

    In Rev:7:9b “ standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes and there were palm branches in their hands ”
    In rev7:13 we are told that the Robes are those coming through the great tribulation.

    Standing “before the throne” could I my (humble opinion) be either figurative with Jesus seen with people (matt 25´4 talks about the son of man will come back in the same manner he accented. (Back on earth)

    Also the rest of Rev7 “…in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them.q 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat…”

    If this is to be lottery understood? (Of cause it could also be thirst after truth and life water, the heat could be from persecutors.etc.)

    Well just felt to contribute a little and thanks for bringing forward more “light”

    I do believe the earth was created for life and this was Jehovahs intension (paused because of the sin Gen3) - the 144000 going to heaven is “an extra” bonus to the anointed.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2023-12-31 11:07:40

      Hi BrMH, Perhaps this article/video will clarify some issues concerning the events revealed in Revelation 20.
      https://beroeans.net/2021/07/23/saving-humanity-part-3/

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