Jesus told his disciples that he would send the spirit and the spirit would guide them into all the truth. John 16:13 Well, when I was a Jehovah’s Witness, it wasn’t the spirit that guided me but the Watch Tower corporation. As a consequence, I got taught a lot of things that weren’t right, and getting them out of my head seems to be a never-ending task, but a joyful one, to be sure, because there is much joy in learning the truth and seeing the real depth of wisdom stored in the pages of God’s word.
Just today, I unlearned one more thing and found some comfort for myself and for all those PIMOs and POMOs out there, who are, or have gone through, what I did as I left a community that had defined my life since infancy.
Turning to 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, I would like to now share what I “unlearned” today:
For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.(1 Corinthians 3:11-15 BSB)
I was taught by the Organization that this related to the preaching and Bible Study work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. But it never made much sense in light of the final verse. The Watchtower explained it like this: (See if it makes sense to you.)
Sobering words indeed! It can be very painful to work hard to help someone become a disciple, only to see the individual succumb to temptation or persecution and eventually leave the way of the truth. Paul acknowledges as much when he says that we suffer loss in such cases. The experience may be so painful that our salvation is described as being “as through fire”—like a man who lost everything in a fire and was himself just barely rescued. (w98 11/1 p. 11 par. 14)
I don’t know how attached you got to your Bible students, but in my case, not so much. When I was a true believer in the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I had Bible students who left the Organization after I helped them to the point of baptism. I was disappointed, but to say that ‘I lost everything in a fire and was myself barely rescued’, would be stretching the metaphor way beyond the breaking point. Surely this was not what the apostle was referring to.
So just today I had a friend, also an ex-JW, bring this verse to my attention and we discussed it back and forth, trying to make sense of it, trying to get the old, implanted ideas out of our collective brains. Now that we are thinking for ourselves, we can see that the way the Watch Tower made sense of 1 Cor 3:15 is just ludicrously self-serving.
But take heart! The holy spirit does guide us into all the truth, just as Jesus promised it would. He also said the truth would also set us free.
“If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31).
Free from what? Free from our slavery to sin, death, and yes, also false religion. John tells us the same thing. In fact, thinking of our freedom in Christ, he writes:
“I am writing to warn you about those people who are misleading you. But Christ has blessed you with the Holy Spirit. Now the Spirit stays in you, and you don't need any teachers. The Spirit is truthful and teaches you everything. So stay one in your heart with Christ, just as the Spirit has taught you to do. 1 John 2:26,27.
Interesting. John says that we, you and I, don’t need any teachers. Yet, to the Ephesians, Paul wrote:
“And He [Christ] gave some indeed to be apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, toward the perfecting of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ…” (Ephesians 4:11, 12 Berean Literal Bible)
We believe this is God’s word, so we are not looking to find contradictions, but rather to resolve apparent contradictions. Perhaps at this moment, I am teaching you something you didn’t know. But then, some of you will leave comments and end up teaching me something I didn’t know. So we all teach one another; we all feed one another, which is what Jesus was referring to at Matthew 24:45 when he spoke of the faithful and discreet slave that provided food for the Master’s household of servants.
So the apostle John wasn’t issuing a blanket prohibition against us teaching one another, but rather he was telling us we don’t need men to tell us what is right and what is wrong, what is false and what is true.
Men and women can and will teach others about their understanding of Scripture, and they may believe that it was God’s spirit that led them to that understanding, and maybe it was, but in the end, we do not believe something because someone tells us it is so. The apostle John tells us that we “don’t need any teachers.” The spirit within us will guide us to truth and will evaluate all it hears so that we can also identify what is false.
I say all this because I don’t want to be like those preachers and teachers that say, “The holy spirit revealed this to me.” Because that would mean you had better believe what I say, because if you don’t you are going against the holy spirit. No. The spirit works through all of us. So if perchance I have found some truth that the spirit led me to, and I share that finding with someone else, it is the spirit that will also lead them to the same truth, or will show them that I’m wrong, and correct me, so that, as the Bible says, iron sharpens iron, and we both are sharpened and led to truth.
With all that in mind, here is what I believe the spirit has led me to understand regarding the meaning of 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
As should always be our way, we start with the context. Paul is using two metaphors here: He starts off from verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 3 using the metaphor of a field under cultivation.
I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. (1 Corinthians 3:6 NASB)
But in verse 10, he switches to another metaphor, that of a building. The building is God’s temple.
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? (1 Corinthians 3:16 NASB)
The foundation of the building is Jesus Christ.
For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11 BSB)
Okay, so the foundation is Jesus Christ and the building is God’s temple, and God’s temple is the Christian Congregation made up of the Children of God. Collectively we are God’s temple, but are we components in that temple, collectively making up the structure. Regarding this, we read in Revelation:
The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name. (Revelation 3:12 BSB)
With all that in mind, when Paul writes, “if anyone builds on this foundation,” what if he isn’t speaking about adding to the building by making converts, but rather is referring to you or me specifically? What if what we are building on, the foundation that is Jesus Christ, is our own Christian persona? Our own spirituality.
When I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I believed in Jesus Christ. So I was building my spiritual persona on the foundation of Jesus Christ. I wasn’t trying to be like Mohammad, or Buddha, or Shiva. I was trying to imitate the Son of God, Jesus Christ. But the materials I was using were taken from the publications of the Watch Tower Organization. I was building with wood, hay, and straw, not gold, silver, and precious stones. Wood, hay, and straw are not precious like gold, silver and precious stones are they? But there is another difference between these two groups of things. Wood, hay, and straw are combustible. Put them in a fire and they burn up; they’re gone. But gold, silver and precious stones will survive a fire.
What fire are we talking about? It became clear to me once I realized that I, or rather my spirituality, was the building work in question. Let’s reread what Paul says with that view and see if his final words now make sense.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. (1 Corinthians 3:12-15 BSB)
I built on the foundation of Christ, but I used combustible materials. Then, after forty years of building came the fiery test. I realized that my building was made of combustible materials. Everything I had built up over my lifetime as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was consumed; gone. I suffered loss. The loss of almost everything I had held dear to that point. Yet, I had been saved, “as if through the flames”. Now I am starting to rebuild, but this time using the proper building materials.
I think these verses can provide exJWs with a great deal of solace as they exit the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’m not saying that my understanding is the correct one. Judge for yourselves. But one more thing that we can take from this passage is that Paul is exhorting Christians to not follow men. Both before the passage we have considered and afterward as well, in closing, Paul makes the point that we must not follow men.
What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his role. I planted the seed and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. (1 Corinthians 3:5-7 BSB)
Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile." Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future. All of them belong to you, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God. (1 Corinthians 3:18-23 BSB)
What Paul is concerned about is that these Corinthians were no longer building on the foundation of the Christ. They were building on the foundation of men, becoming followers of men.
And now we come to a subtlety of Paul’s words that is devastating and yet so easy to miss. When he speaks of the work, the construction or building, erected by each individual being consumed by fire, he is only referring to those buildings that stand on the foundation which is Christ. He assures us that if we build with good building materials upon this foundation, Jesus Christ, then we can withstand the fire. However, if we build with poor building materials on the foundation of Jesus Christ, our work will be burned up, but we will still be saved. Do you see the common denominator? Regardless of the building materials used, we will be saved if we built on the foundation of the Christ. But what if we haven’t built on that foundation? What if our foundation is different? What if we founded our faith on the teachings of men or an organization? What if instead of loving the truth of God’s word, we love THE TRUTH of the church or organization to which we belong? Witnesses commonly tell one another that they are in the truth, but they don’t mean, in Christ, but rather, being in the truth means being in the Organization.
What I’m about to say next applies to pretty much any organized Christian religion out there, but I’ll use the one I’m most familiar with as an example. Let’s say there is a teenager raised since infancy as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. This young fellow believes in the teachings coming forth from the Watch Tower publications and begins to pioneer right out of high school, devoting 100 hours a month to the fulltime ministry (we are going back a couple of years). He advances and becomes a special pioneer, assigned to a remote territory. One day he feels extra special and believes he has been called by God to be one of the anointed. He begins to partake of the emblems, but never once ridicules anything the Organization does or teach. He gets noticed and is appointed as a circuit overseer, and he dutifully complies with all the instructions coming forth from the branch office. He ensures that dissenters are dealt with to keep the congregation clean. He works to protect the Organization’s name when child sexual abuse cases come his way. Eventually, he is invited in to Bethel. After putting him through the standard filtering process, he is assigned to the true test of organization fealty: The Service Desk. There he is exposed to everything coming into the branch. This would include letters from truth-loving Witnesses who have uncovered scriptural evidence that contradicts some of the Organization’s core teachings. Since the Watch Tower policy is to answer every letter, he replies with the standard boilerplate response of restating the organization’s position, with added paragraphs counselling the doubting one to trust in the channel Jehovah has chosen, not run ahead, and wait on Jehovah. He remains unaffected by the evidence crossing his desk on a regular basis and after some time, because he is one of the anointed, he gets invited into world headquarters where he continues in the testing ground of the service desk, under the watchful eye of the Governing Body. When the time is right, he is nominated to that august body and assumes his role as one of the Guardians of Doctrine. At this point, he sees everything the organization does, knows everything about the organization.
If this individual has built on the foundation of Christ, then somewhere along the way, whether when he was a pioneer, or when he was serving as a circuit overseer, or when he was first on the service desk, or even when newly appointed to the Governing Body, some where along the way, he would have been put through that fiery test Paul speaks of. But again, only if he has built on the foundation of Christ.
Jesus Christ tells us: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)
If the man we are referring to in our illustration believes that the Organization is “the truth, the way, and the life”, then he has built on the wrong foundation, the foundation of men. He will not go through the fire that Paul spoke of. However, if he ultimately believes that only Jesus is the truth, the way, and the life, then he will go through that fire because that fire is reserved for those who have built on that foundation and he will lose everything he has worked so hard to build up, but he himself will be saved.
I believe this is what our brother Raymond Franz went through.
It is sad to say, but the average Jehovah’s Witness has not built on the foundation that is Christ. A good test of this is to ask one of them whether they would obey an instruction in the Bible from Christ or an instruction from the Governing Body if the two didn’t totally agree. It will be a very unusual Jehovah’s Witness who will opt for Jesus over the Governing Body. If you are still one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and feel like you are going through a fiery test as you awaken to the reality of the false teachings and hypocrisy of the Organization, take heart. If you have built your faith on the Christ, you will come through this test and be saved. That is the Bible’s promise to you.
In any case, that is how I see Paul’s words to the Corinthians are meant to be applied. You may view them differently. Let the spirit guide you. Remember, that God’s channel of communication is not any man or group of men, but Jesus Christ. We have his words recorded in Scripture, so we only need to go to him and listen. Just as a father told us to do. “This is my son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” (Matthew 17:5)
Thank you for listening and a special thank you to those helping me to continue this work.
Archived Comments
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Comment by jara on 2022-03-22 14:23:44
Muchas gracias!!! Muy iluminador análisis de 1 Cor 3:11-15 pues permite también entender, a mi juicio, cómo un cristiano puede iniciar su camino sobre el fundamento correcto, que es Cristo, aun entre las cizañas o malezas de la Cristiandad, sembradas por el Enemigo, si lo combinamos con la parábola de Jesús en Mateo 13:24-30. Si proviene de una semilla de Trigo, a pesar de la mala influencia que lo rodea que le hace edificar mal, podrá a su tiempo edificar con los materiales auténticos, pues llegará la prueba y aprenderá que algo anduvo mal y cambiará de materiales.
Parece que no es tan común desde hace siglos, edificar correctamente desde el inicio tanto (a) colocando el fundamento correcto y luego (b) edificando con materiales apropiados. Es por etapas en muchos casos, pasando por una prueba intermedia. Pero al fin, el Pastor conoce quienes son de sus ovejas y las reúne, llamándolas por sus nombres.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-03-23 06:58:37
Así es, Jara. ¡Así es!
Comment by K.Miguelicutty on 2022-03-22 16:22:05
How timely is your video, Meleti. Thank you. I found comfort in my struggles after hearing the scriptures you talk about. I was baptized in 1992 as a convert and published with zeal until 1997 when the WT retracted their false fulfillment teaching of the separating of the sheep and goats by publishers in the door to door work. I was horribly stumbled and for 22 years I was angry at God for leading me to a false prophet. You see, I had given my heart to Jesus Christ after reading the Gospel books in 1989 and at that moment of complete surrender to him and inviting him into my heart to be Lord and Savior I became filled with the Holy Spirit. It was metaphysical and changed the direction of my life. But after 6 years with the JWs (I met many good people) I was lost adrift in my life for so long not being able to pray. Then one day, my spirit could not tolerate being separated from my God and my Christ I am called out to him and he returned to me again. Today I am restored in my relationship but it is much better because I worship the true God of the Bible and his son is my Lord. Reading scriptures has set me free from the false teachings and I now realize that I survived the "fire." I thank God he helped me to build my love and faith on Jesus. I know there is a reason he allowed me to become a JW. I stand ready to help others that are waking up and provide fellowship and deconstruction essays so they can return to the God of the Bible and discard the false doctrines of men. I appreciate your work, as always, brother Vivlon!
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-03-23 08:05:26
Thank you for sharing those encouraging words with me.
Your brother in Christ,
Meleti
Comment by Fani on 2022-03-23 03:03:03
Je ne me souvenais pas de l'explication de la WT concernant 1 cor 3 : 11-15
Heureusement, parfois notre esprit a naturellement balayé les explications bancales qu'on sentait ne pas coller avec l'enseignement du Christ.
Cela m'a fait penser aux paroles du Christ : "C'est pourquoi, toute personne qui entend ces paroles que je dis et les met en pratique, je la comparerai à un homme prudent qui a construit sa maison sur le rocher. (Matthieu 7.24)
Avons nous bâti sur le seul rocher, la pierre de fondement Christ ?
Je me souviens d'une conversation avec un ancien qui me disait : "et si on s'était trompé ?" Il avait l'air perdu et avait l'impression que tout serait détruit.
Je lui ai répondu : " que si c'était le cas, (et oui c'était bien le cas) pour moi, ça ne changerait rien à ma foi. Je parlais de ma foi en Dieu et Christ et non en une organisation.
Lui, malgré ses doutes, est resté pour l'instant dans cette organisation à qui il est trop attaché. Il a l'impression que s'il la quittait, il ne lui resterait plus rien.
Effectivement, moi aussi comme pour beaucoup, le feu est passé, a détruit au passage des œuvres inutiles, m'a mise à nu, mais ma foi est restée bien ancrée.
Oui, bien sûr, je suis coupable de n'avoir pas su plus tôt être assez consistante spirituellement pour avoir confiance que Christ ne me laisserait pas seule, qu'il pouvait me guider. Les hommes ont eu trop d'influence sur moi. C'est une réalité et une grave erreur.
Ils nous ont bien inculqué à ne pas avoir confiance en nous (et ça c'est bien réussi) mais ils ont oublié de nous inculquer que L'Esprit Saint est actif et que Christ nous guide par son intermédiaire.
Je crois aussi fermement que c'est l'Esprit Saint qui nous ouvre les yeux.
Aujourd'hui, ma relation personnelle avec Dieu et Christ, sans parasites entre moi et eux, me permet de reconstruire avec des matériaux de valeur en gagnant une vraie paix.
Merci beaucoup pour cet échange.
Unie à vous tous dans notre foi et amour fraternel.
Nicole
Comment by K.Miguelicutty on 2022-03-23 05:48:02
Follow up comment to clarify: My prior comment may be confusing as to the timeline of events in my life. When I say I accepted Jesus as my Lord after reading the gospel books, that happened about two years before I ever heard of JWs. I went searching for God in various churches (more than a dozen) but the Holy Spirit would not allow me to stay with them as its seemed they lack spirituality of a disciple. When I came into contact with JWS at my door, I realized that something was different with them. When I started my studies, I was paired with a family that truly welcomed me and included me in their life. As a newly divorced man that had lost his children, that was so valuable to me, especially having had a nomadic life lacking family and community ties.
Perhaps I overlooked some obvious errors in their scriptural references to accept the greater good of what I had become a part of (or so I thought at the time.) The congregation I was in had many loving people in it and the welcomed me. Perhaps it was the small town nature of the community, but I have not found the same level of brotherly love in the big city. The JWs are kept so busy and I think this had an impact on me too that I got a point where I stopped thinking for myself and meditating on the word of God because there was simply too much material one is expected to keep up with in order to be considered "strong spiritually."
I was always called an evangelizing publisher because I really felt I was preaching and teaching as a disciple of Jesus and that he was the one I was in service to. Until the retraction article I referenced earlier woke me up, I realized my relationship with Christ had became hijacked by the organization. Before I knew it, I was actually asleep spiritually and the Holy Spirit was less and less operative in my life (I mentioned this to an elder before I actually got my sheep and goat retraction stumbling.)
The idea of spiritual feeding should be to help others to feed off the Holy Words of the Bible. God's words are enough and they have a powerful effect on those with an earnest heart. I feel a great sympathy for those born ins who never came to know Jehovah and Jesus except by the teachings of the WT. I had my prior experience with the Holy Spirit at my heart dedication to fall back on, though it took 22 years to sort through and to realize, on a deeper level, what had happened to me (and what I allowed to happen to me.) Why do I always seem to want to play with fire?
But thank God he is forgiving and merciful and wants all his children back in his arms. As Christians, we need to strive to stand on our own two feet and take responsibility for our relationship with our God. For those born ins, I admire your courage and often the price you pay in being shunned and thank God, he has rescued you. He obviously saw the love you have for him deep in your heart. Now that he has freed you, stick close to him and do not wander away indulging in new found freedom. Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Everlasting life still only comes from faith in Jesus Christ.
The touchstone of truth is the written word. That must be your primary education resource. Obviously I confirm what most former JWs will attest to, which is to not allow the doctrines of men to supplant your education in the Bible. If their teaching doesn't make sense to you, then it probably is not truth. I would warn anyone seeking to learn the scriptures through the JW program to stop now! You will surely learn some bible truth, but it will be laced with deadly lies and many of those lies will make it into your heart and mind if you are not properly connected to God by means of the Holy Spirit. Have faith in God and if you build your faith on his love and not fear, he will sustain you through the spiritual assaults sure to come your way when Satan takes note you are giving your life to Christ.
Comment by wish4truth2 on 2022-03-23 17:19:34
Hi Eric, i have a question, the BSB says "his workmanship will be evident, because "THE DAY" will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire" but other translations say: " But on "the judgment day", fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value So, if the other translations are correct, because we built with JW materials the scripture would not apply to anytime other than the Judgement day when the scripture says it will be revealed?
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-03-24 07:49:34
Hi Wish4truth2,
Other translations render it simply "Day" which is more faithful to the original. (See the interlinear.) However, they still choose to capitalize the word, which means the translator is engaging in a theological interpretation. Of course, it is up to the translator to decide whether day is figurative meaning the time when the light shines, or whether it is applying to a specific day, in which case it would be capitalized. If it applies to judgment day as these translations imply, then we are not talking about the resurrection to life which the anointed go through but the resurrection to judgment which the unrighteous experience during judgment day.
Anointed Christians do not go through judgment day because their current life is there judgment. And upon their death, we have already been judged as righteous or unrighteous.
Since Paul is clearly speaking to Christians, I think he is merely using day in a figurative sense to refer to a time when light shines in darkness revealing the work of each one.
In any case, that is my take on it.
Comment by dani on 2022-03-24 07:20:26
I really enjoy your musings Eric. Not long ago I came across this very scripture in my personal reading and was surprised to see that a person who built with combustible materials would still be “saved.” As per our JW ideology I had always thought they would be lost...goes to show how you can read the bible but not really “read it”
As was mentioned by Wish4truth2, I too got the impression that the day spoken of here may be judgement day (there are a multitude of verses speaking about the day dawning with fire). But this raises a question for me; if it were speaking of judgement day, then it seems that only those who build with non-combustibles will receive a “reward”...whereas the one who built with combustibles would still be “saved” but perhaps not receive the same reward. Is there a difference then between the reward and salvation?
I am interested to hear your thoughts on this subject and the thoughts of anyone reading this.
It is wonderful that we sharpen each other and help each other to come to the correct understanding.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-03-24 08:05:33
Hi Dani,
That's an interesting thought that you raise. I did answer wish4truth2 below.
Comment by Dominique on 2022-03-24 16:00:46
Another one going through the flames! Son mis hermanos los que atienden la palabra de Dios y la hacen. Sino como eschuchara Dios nuestras suplicas y recibir espiritu Santo. Y asi ser salvos porque vida eterna es conocimiento del Altisimo mediante su espiritu. Por eso Cristo dijo bendito sea todo el que escuche y obedezca. La bendicion prometida a Abraham a todas las naciones, vida eterna en el paraiso. Claro regida por Dios y los que ha elegido uno de ellos el Cristo sumo sacerdote y los 144000. Eso de sentarse a mi lado no es cosa mia darla sino de mi Padre! Lo que sucede con El cuerpo gobernante, otro clero mas, es que pagan y se dan el vuelto.
Comment by phuocdien93 on 2022-03-26 04:44:00
And according to the grace of God given to me, I laid the foundation as a wise architect and another built upon it, and every person should pay attention to how he builds upon it. For no man can lay another foundation than that which has been laid, which is Yeshua The Messiah. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11
The Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 2 Samuel 7:13
American standard version
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Revelation 12:5
King James Version
Who hath ascended the heavens and then descended? Who hath gathered the wind into his two hands? Who hath wrapped up the waters in a mantle? Who hath set up all the ends of the earth? What is his name and what the name of his son, when thou knowest? Proverbs 30: 4
Emphasized Bible
And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please. And he said—Thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you. And God said yet further unto Moses—Thus shalt thou say unto the sons of Israel, Yahweh, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you. This is my name to times age-abiding, And this my memorial to generation after generation. Exodus 3: 14-15
Emphasized Bible
Jehovah is his name; Amos 5:8
American standard version
And when eight days were fulfilled for circumcising him, his name was called JESUS, which was so called by the angel before he was conceived in the womb. And when the days of their purification according to the law of Moses were fulfilled, they brought him up to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord. Luke 2: 21-22
American standard version
Comment by Berean72 on 2022-04-03 15:05:39
love and respect! thanks brother Meleti...
Comment by Peter on 2022-04-14 23:58:20
It seems clear that you are genuinely seeking the truth, Meleti, so I'm not surprised that the organisation would discourage that! Knowledge is power, so it should be obvious that the last thing any religious organisation would want is for the flock to be more powerful than the shepherds.