In our previous video titled “Does it Grieve God’s Spirit When We Reject Our Heavenly Hope for an Earthly Paradise? We asked the question about whether one could really have an earthly hope on paradise earth as a righteous Christian? We showed, with the use of Scriptures, that this is not possible because it is the anointing with holy spirit that makes us righteous. Since the JW doctrine of being Jehovah’s friend and having an earthly hope isn’t scriptural, we wanted to explain from Scripture what the one true salvation hope is for Christians. We also discussed that setting our sights on heaven is not about looking at heaven as if it were a physical location where we will live. Where and how we will actually live and work is something that we trust God to reveal in the fullness of time knowing that whatever or however it all turns out, it will be better and more satisfying than our wildest imaginings.
I need to clarify something here before going further. I believe that the dead will be resurrected to earth. That will be the resurrection of the unrighteous and will be the vast, vast majority of humans who have ever lived. So don’t think for one moment that I don’t believe the earth will be inhabited under the kingdom of Christ. However, I am not talking about the resurrection of the dead in this video. In this video, I’m talking about the first resurrection. THE FIRST RESURRECTION. You see, the first resurrection is the resurrection not of the dead, but of the living. That is the hope of Christians. If that doesn’t make sense to you, consider these words from our Lord Jesus:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” (John 5:24 New King James Version)
You see, the anointing from God moves us out of the category of those God considers as dead and into the group he considers to be alive, even though we are still sinners and may have died physically.
Now let’s start by reviewing the Christian salvation hope as outlined in the Bible. Let’s begin by looking at the terms “heaven” and “heavens.”
When you think of heaven, do you think of a starry-lit night-sky, a place of unapproachable light, or a throne where God sits on shining gem stones? Of course, much of what we know about heaven is given to us by the prophets and apostles in vivid symbolic language because we are physical beings with finite sensory capacities who aren’t designed to understand dimensions beyond our life in space and time. Also, we need to keep in mind that those of us who have affiliation, or have had affiliation, with organized religion, may likely have false assumptions about heaven; so, let’s be aware of that and take an exegetical approach to our study of heaven.
In Greek, the word for heaven is οὐρανός (o-ra-nós) meaning the atmosphere, the sky, the starry visible heavens, but also the invisible spiritual heavens, what we simply call “heaven.” A note in Helps Word-studies on Biblehub.com says that “the singular “heaven” and the plural “heavens” have distinct overtones and therefore should be distinguished in translation though unfortunately they rarely are.”
For our purpose as Christians wanting to understand our salvation hope, we are concerned with the spiritual heavens, that heavenly reality of God’s Kingdom. Jesus says, “In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?” (John 14:2 BSB)
How do we understand Jesus’s expression of an actual location, such as a house with rooms, in connection with the reality of God’s Kingdom? We can’t really think that God lives in a house, can we? You know, with a patio, a living room, bedrooms, a kitchen, and two or three bathrooms? Jesus said there are many rooms in his house and he’s going to his Father to prepare a place for us. It’s obvious he is using a metaphor. So we need to stop thinking about a place and start thinking about something else, but exactly what?
And what do we learn about heaven from Paul? After his vision of being caught up to the “3rd heaven,” he said:
“I was caught up to paradise and heard things so astounding that they cannot be expressed in words, things no human is allowed to tell. (2 Corinthians 12:4 NLT)
It’s surprising, isn’t it, that Paul uses the word “paradise,” in Greek παράδεισος, (pa-rá-di-sos) which is defined as “a park, a garden, a paradise. Why would Paul use the word paradise to describe an intangible place like heaven? We tend to think of paradise as a physical place like the Garden of Eden with colorful flowers and pristine waterfalls. It is interesting that the Bible never directly refers to the Garden of Eden as a paradise. The word only occurs three times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, it does relate to the word for garden, which makes us think of the garden of Eden, and what was unique about that particular garden? It was a home created by God for the first humans. So perhaps we unthinkingly look to that garden of Eden at every mention of paradise. But we mustn’t think of paradise as a single place, but rather as something prepared by God for his children to dwell in. Thus, when the dying criminal on a cross next to Jesus asked him to “remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” Jesus could reply, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:42,43 BSB). In other words, you will be with me in a place that God has prepared for his human children.
The final occurrence of the word is found in Revelation where Jesus is speaking to anointed Christians. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7 BSB)
Jesus is preparing a place for the kings and priests in the house of his Father, but God is also preparing the earth to be inhabited by unrighteous resurrected humans—those who are to benefit from the priestly ministrations of the anointed kings and priests with Jesus. Truly then, as was the case in Eden before the fall of Mankind into sin, Heaven and Earth will join. The spiritual and the physical will overlap. God will be with humankind by means of Christ. In God’s good time, the earth will be a paradise, meaning a home prepared by God for his human family.
Nevertheless, another home prepared by God through Christ for anointed Christians, his adopted children, can also rightly be termed a paradise. We are not talking about trees and flowers and babbling brooks, but rather a beautiful home for God’s children which will take on whatever form he decides. How can we express spiritual thoughts with earthly words? We cannot.
Is it wrong to use the term “heavenly hope”? No, but we have to be careful that it doesn’t become a catchphrase that encompasses a false hope, because it is not a Scriptural expression. Paul talks about a hope reserved for us in the heavens—plural. Paul tells us in his letter to the Colossians:
“We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the holy ones because of the hope that is being reserved for you in the heavens.” (Colossians 1:3-5 NWT)
“Heavens”, plural, is used hundreds of times in the Bible. It is not meant to convey a physical location but rather something about a human state of being, a source of authority or government that is over us. An authority that we accept and which gives us security.
The term, “kingdom of heaven,” does not appear a single time in the New World translation, yet it occurs hundreds of times in the publications of the Watch Tower Corporation. If I say “kingdom of heaven” then you are naturally going to think of a place. So the publications are at best sloppy in providing what they like to call “food at the proper time”. If they were to follow the Bible and accurately say, “kingdom of the heavens” (notice the plural) which occurs 33 times in the book of Matthew, they would avoid implying a location. But perhaps that would not support their doctrine that the anointed disappear off to heaven, never to be seen again. Obviously, because of its plural use, it is not referring to multiple places but rather to rulership which comes from God. With that in mind, let us read what Paul has to say to the Corinthians:
“Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does decay inherit immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:50 Berean Literal Bible).
Here we are not talking about a location but rather a state of being.
According to the context of 1 Corinthians 15, we will be spirit creatures.
“So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:42-45)
Further, John specifically says that these righteous resurrected ones will have a heavenly body like Jesus:
“Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.” (1 John 3:2 BSB)
Jesus alluded to this when answering that trick question of the Pharisees:
“Jesus answered, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy to share in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage. In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.” (Luke 20:34-36 BSB)
Paul repeats John and Jesus’ theme that the resurrected righteous ones will have a spiritual body like Jesus.
“But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.” (Philippians 3:21 BSB)
We should remember that having a spiritual body doesn’t mean the children of God will be locked away forever in realms of light never to see the green grass of earth again (as JW teachings would have us believe).
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. (Revelation 21:1-3 BSB)
And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth.” (Revelation 5:10 NLT)
It’s hard to assume that serving as kings and priests means anything other than interacting with unrighteous humans in a human form to help those who have repented in or during the Messianic Kingdom. Likely the children of God will take on a fleshly body (as needed) to do work on the earth just as Jesus did, after he was resurrected. Remember, Jesus appeared repeatedly in the 40 days prior to his ascension, always in human form, and then disappeared from sight. Anytime the angels interacted with humans in the pre-Christian Scriptures, they took on human form, appearing as normal men. Admittedly, at this point we are engaging in conjecture. Fair enough. But remember what we discussed at the beginning? It doesn’t matter. The details don’t matter right now. What matters is that we know that God is love and his love is beyond measure, so we have no reason to doubt that the offer being made to us is worthy of every risk and every sacrifice.
We should also keep in mind that as children of Adam we aren’t entitled to be saved, or even to have a salvation hope because we are condemned to death. (“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23) It is only as the children of God who put faith in Jesus Christ (see John 1:12, 13) and are led by the Spirit that we are mercifully given a salvation hope. Please, let’s not make the same mistake as Adam and think we can have salvation on our own terms. We have to follow Jesus’ example and do what our heavenly Father commands us to do in order to be saved. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21 BSB)
So now let’s review what the Bible says about our salvation hope:
First, we learn that we have been saved by grace (through our faith) as a gift from God. “But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!” (Ephesians 2:4-5 BSB)
Second, it is Jesus Christ who makes our salvation possible through his shed blood. The children of God take Jesus as their mediator of the new covenant as the only means to be reconciled to God.
“Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12 BSB)
“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all.” (1 Timothy 2:5,6 BSB).
“…Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.” (Hebrews 9:15 BSB)
Third, being saved by God means answering his calling of us through Christ Jesus: “Each one should lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him and to which God has called him.” (1 Corinthians 7:17)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.” (Ephesians 1:3-5).
Fourth, there is only ONE true Christian salvation hope which is to be an anointed child of God, called by our Father, and the recipient of everlasting life. “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; One Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” (Ephesians 4:4-6 BSB).
Jesus Christ himself teaches the children of God that there is only one salvation hope and that is to endure a difficult life as a righteous one and then be rewarded by entering the kingdom of the heavens . “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them (Matthew 5:3 NWT)
“Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.” (Matthew 5:10 NWT)
“Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.” (Matthew 5:11,12 NWT)
Fifth, and finally, regarding our salvation hope: there are only two resurrections supported in Scripture, not three (no righteous friends of Jehovah being resurrected to a paradise earth or righteous survivors of Armageddon staying on earth). Two places in the Christian Scriptures support the Bible teaching of:
1) The resurrection of the righteous to be with Christ as kings and priests in the heavens.
2) The resurrection of the unrighteous to the earth to judgment (many Bibles translate judgment as “condemnation”—their theology being that if you aren’t resurrected with the righteous then you may be resurrected just to be tossed into the lake of fire after the 1000 years are over).
“And I have the same hope in God that they themselves cherish, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15 BSB)
“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28,29 BSB)
Here our salvation hope is clearly stated in scripture. If we think we can gain salvation just by waiting to see what happens, we need to think more carefully. If we think we are entitled to salvation because we know God and his Son Jesus Christ are good, and we want to be good, that is not enough. Paul warns us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
“Therefore, my beloved just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.” (Philippians 2:12,13 BSB)
Intrinsic to working out our salvation is a love of truth. If we do not love truth, if we think truth is conditional or relative to our own fleshly wants and desires then we cannot expect that God will find us, because he seeks those who worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:23, 24)
Before we conclude, we want to focus on something that it seems many miss regarding our salvation hope as Christians. Paul said at Acts 24:15 that he had hope that there would be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous? Why would he hope for a resurrection of the unrighteous? Why hope for unrighteous people? To answer that, we go back to our third point about being called. Ephesians 1:3-5 tells us that God chose us before the foundation of the world and predestined us for salvation as His sons through Jesus Christ. Why choose us? Why predestine a small group of humans for adoption? Doesn’t he want all humans to return to his family? Of course, he does, but the means to accomplish that is to first qualify a small group for a specific role. That role is to serve both as a government and a priesthood, a new heavens and a new earth.
This is evident from Paul’s words to the Colossians: “He [Jesus] is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; [that’s us] He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, [the first, but the children of God will follow] so that in all things He may have preeminence. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, [that would include the unrighteous] whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.” (Colossians 1:17-20 BSB)
Jesus and his associate kings and priests will form the administration that will work to reconcile all of humanity back into God’s family. So when we speak of the salvation hope of Christians, it is a different hope than that Paul held out for the unrighteous, but the end is the same: Eternal life as part of the family of God.
So, to conclude, let us ask the question: Is it God’s will working in us when we say we don’t want to go to heaven? That we want to be on a paradise earth? Are we grieving the holy spirit when we focus on location and not on the role our Father wants us to play in the outworking of his purpose? Our heavenly Father has a job for us to do. He has called us out to do this work. Will we respond selflessly?
Hebrews tells us: “For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every transgression and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? This salvation was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him.” (Hebrews 2:2,3 BSB)
“Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29 BSB)
Let us be careful not to insult the spirit of grace. If we want to fulfill our true, one and only Christian hope for salvation, we must do the will of our Father who is in the heavens, follow Jesus Christ, and be moved by the holy spirit to act in righteousness. The children of God have a strong commitment to follow our life-giving savior to paradise, the place God has prepared for us. It is really the condition of living forever…and requires all of what we are and want and hope. As Jesus told us in no uncertain terms “If you want to be my disciple, you must, by comparison, hate everyone else—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26 NLT)
Thank you for your time and your support.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Truthseeker46 on 2022-04-11 23:40:41
Eric I thank you for your videos and website. I am now trying to practise exegetical Bible research as I am learning it more.
I still do not understand exactly who the unrighteous ones who are resurrected in the second, earthly resurrection actually are.
Does it include members of Christendom (including JW's) who call themselves Christian, but still hold, are laboring under, or practising wrong beliefs up to their deaths?.
Thank you for your efforts in enlightening those of us not naturally endowed with your research abilities.Reply by Ad_Lang on 2022-04-17 21:29:11
About christendom and other religious organizations (or: Babylon the Great), there are two things to consider. There are the organizations, and seperately the individuals in them. The most important point to remember is that Jesus will be the one making the judgement for each individual and it doesn't seem that he has delegated that to anyone else (John 5:22-24,30).
Considering the part of the organizations, Revelation 18:4-8 contains a very strong warning to get out of them (or rather: IT), for adverse judgement will come without fail. It doesn't look like there will be any exception for whoever remains in it. However, have you noticed the efforts that have been made in the world to encourage "inter-faith" worship? It appears that the Catholic church for one has a strong desire to gather believers of all sorts (at least Christian denominations, but probably including all faiths) into one united, worldwide religion. That is possibly why Babylon the Great is (translated as) a singular entity, not a group or a number of different entities.
Note also Abraham's pleading with Jehovah in Genesis 18:32, "Finally he said: "Jehovah, please, do not become hot with anger, but let me speak just once more: suppose only ten [righteous] are found there [Sodom]"? He answered: "I will not destroy it for the sake of the ten"." This would suggest that Jehovah will not execute judgement until all his people have come out. If the merger of all faiths worldwide is to happen, then we will find a point in time when every individual will have to make a personal decision to either go along with it, or to walk away. Their life will depend on making the right decision at that time.
About the individuals, in Luke 12:41-48 Jesus answers Peter's question, showing four types of disciples that Jesus expects to find on his return.
The first group are the faithful kind of steward (or: slave, servant) who have done what they had been asked to do to the best of their ability. In other words, the Christians who have indeed listened to Jesus (see Matthew 7:21-27 and Matthew 17:5).
Then, there are the evil stewards who have taken advantage of their brothers in various ways, and knowingly have not done God's will, but acted against the Christ despite calling themselves Christian (see Acts 20:29,30 among others).
Finally, there are two groups of Christians who have not done what Jesus said, or at least not as completely as could have been expected. They will have to deal with the consequences of their shortcomings, but according to their understanding. It does not appear that these will be rejected, but they will somehow be corrected/disciplined. Think of the Christians who have in all honesty been deceived, like many of Jehovah's Witnesses have. I fail to believe that most of them are evil, but many have honestly been deceived and because of the threats/fear of the (potential) consequences of leaving, they decide to remain in the organization. However, they may still have to make a decision in the future, at a time when it may be a lot harder to take the right steps, and as time progresses the consequences may be more severe.
Comment by Bernabe on 2022-04-12 12:35:11
I think it is best to seek to do God's will as we honestly understand it, and let God decide how our salvation will be: whether on earth or in heaven. Let us trust that what He decides will be best for us.
Comment by katrina on 2022-04-16 06:45:34
So it is not a set number? The great crowd that come out of the great tribulation will survive and live on the earth, then the resurrection takes place?
Reply by Ad_Lang on 2022-04-17 20:56:00
The number 144,000 may be a symbolic one. The number twelve appears to have significance in terms of rulership (I don't remember the details). It might mean that 12 x 12 x 1,000 is a superlative in terms of the full number. Not necessarily meaning a specific number carved in stone well in advance, but in terms of "every one of them will have his/her place".
Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-19 15:12:53
Yes, ALL of the numbers in Revelation are "signs" and symbols (7 seals, 7 bowls, 7 trumpets, beast with 7 heads, etc.) That's patently obvious. The controversies are about which things are literal and which are symbols. Leaving the JW requires a complete paradigm change, which requires a lot of study and time. (I was raised a JW and left 27 years ago.) Simply, the 144,000 is Christ's church from the viewpoint of heaven. The "great crowd" is the same faithful church from the viewpoint of humans. The Revelation is like watching a football game on TV. They playback the same scene over and over from different viewpoints. I highly recommend two authors on this (E.W. Hengstenberg (1802-1869) and Leon L. Morris (1914-2006). Also, you can listen (free) to two preachers Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981) https://www.mljtrust.org/search/?name=&q=revelation and Eric Alexander (living): http://www.tapesfromscotland.org/catalogue/index.php?speakerSelect=EAlexander (scroll down to Revelation).
Go back to the Reformation and study John Calvin and the Puritans. Truly, if it weren't for the Reformation, we would be Roman Catholic today. Obviously the Reformation was a movement of Holy Spirit. Follow the Lamb wherever he goes. Pray and listen for the Lord's voice in everything.Reply by rudytokarz on 2022-04-20 10:02:00
Yes, we JWs (3rd generation, ex-elder, PIMO in mid-fade here...) get caught up in the minute details that we are taught (told) without looking at the greater context as you so correctly point out.
Many studies of the Scriptures in the past have brought out these common sense points but as JWs we have ignored them as these have been described as coming from Babylon the Great; Martyn Lloyd-Jones even spoke about coming out of BTG to unify Christian thoughts and actions.
We must be diligent not taking ANY man's word or teaching as from God if it doesn't follow the context of Scripture. Although the Reformation certainly helped move away from scriptural falsehood, some of their teachings are also false such as Predestination, the Trinity and Hellfire.
We must all struggle to grow as Christians through ongoing study, prayer and actions - “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matt. 24:13.)
RudyReply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-20 12:56:26
Great point! "get[ting] caught up in the minute details" is EXACTLY how JW doctrine does the most damage. Like Satan with Eve, he began by stating "the truth" but his motive was deception and it was all a big lie. My point is not to miss that the Gospel was restored at the Reformation. The JW have not a clue about the Gospel, and sadly, I can't find it at this website either. These folks seem very sincere, but they still read like JWs.
I wholly agree with everything you said, with one exception: predestination (better, providence). And you well know my previous JW conviction. Truly, Calvin's doctrine on this is not what you think. I've learned the hard way, don't measure a doctrine by it's errors. As I suggested above, I haven't read ABOUT the Reformation, but I am studying the actual writings of Calvin, and many of the Puritans. (Unfortunately, they all believed in the trinity, but thankfully Calvin adopted Augustine's view which fixed essential errors caused by Origen. Augustine/Calvin taught the "personhood" of Christ and thereby distinguished Christ from his Father. So when I read his sermons I simply forget about the trinity. He also believed in a flat earth. I can overlook that error too.)
The Book of Esther is the strongest argument for Providence. Each person was acting of his/her own will, and yet God's will overruled in ways we cannot see. "Your way was in the sea, Your path in the great waters, And Your footsteps were not known." (Psa. 77:19). Jehovah God is so, so much bigger than we can fathom. Calvin refers to God's "overruling providence," which is to say:
Somehow, in ways only mysterious to us, God is ALWAYS in control, always on his throne of His Almighty Sovereignty and His will overrules man's will. Man's "free" will is a lie. (Am I free to lose weight? Of course, but how is that working out?!) And we can be very grateful because if God couldn't or wouldn't overrule the will of Satan or of man, God would not truly be God.
Must read this excellent treatise on Esther. I guarantee you will not view providence or predestination the same. Open your mind and seek new paradigms because all of the JW doctrines are all based on LIES. What do you have to lose? If I'm in error, please let me know. You will not find one error in this treatise. If you do, please let me know, as I would be amazed.
https://www.chapellibrary.org/book/cigi/confidence-in-god-in-times-of-dangerReply by Ad_Lang on 2022-04-20 21:03:42
Have you considered all that has been said on this site?
Man's free will is very real, because love cannot exist without it. Love is because of the opportunity to do the opposite. I used to think that God sometimes overrules free will, like in Exodus 8 and 9. Then, not long ago, I had a change of mind.
What really seems to have happened there is that "hardening the heart" has nothing to do with changing one's disposition. Rather, it means something like "setting in stone", or to solidify. So the Pharao had decided not to listen to Moses. We see that in chapter 8 first, where he himself hardens his heart, and then in chapter 9 where God does it. In other words, at some point he made his own decision and stuck with it.
I think that we tend to underestimate God's wisdom, his insight. He knows very well what people are, what we are. Imagine that a child plays on the street and gets hit by a car. Months ago, it's parent reflected God's wisdom warning the child "Don't go on the street; you'll be hit by a car". They did not wish for it to happen, but their foresight/providence allowed them to see the accident happen down the line. It is a matter of wisdom: knowledge and understanding applied.
As Scripture says, God knows us better than we know ourselves. It is not too big a thing for him to see where our decisions will lead us and he is well capable of pre-empting any move we make. Like a chess player winning the game, because of knowing the moves that his opponent will make. That's not some magical power to see future events: it's a matter of knowing the opponent. Have you ever known that a good football/soccer manager/coach will study the opponent of the next match, in order to learn their strategies and style of playing, so that he can prepare his team to win the match by making use of their weak points?Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-21 00:07:04
Excellent. I agree "man's free will is very real," but we differ in our conclusions and now it is my hope to show what the Bible says about this. You raised various points and I'll reply to each. But first, as ex-JWs, you and I have a shared experience in having been mislead by following human thinking. We know from experience that what you or I believe is wholly unreliable. So, our beliefs must be based solely on God's Word: Sola scriptura, by scripture alone.
Yes, man's free will is very real because we are rational creatures "made in the image of God" (Gen. 1:27). But the issue is sin, man's free will is in bondage to sin. We may choose our sins but without the direct intervention of Holy Spirit we are unable to please God (not sin): "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Rom. 3:23; "unless one is born again," John 3:3; "even when we were dead in trespasses, [God] made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)" Eph. 2:5.
Now here's your point, where Jesus Christ said:
"But you are not willing* to come to me that you may have life." (John 5:40)
*Strong's Greek 2309 (theló): to will, wish.
1) Every man is dead because it says, "you are not willing to come to me that you may have life." (John 5:40).
2) There is life in Jesus Christ, "you are not willing to come to me that you may have life."
3) There is life in Christ for everyone that "comes" for it: "that you may have life," implying that all who go will have life.
4) The crux of the issue is that no man by nature ever will come to Christ, for the scripture says, "you are not willing to come to me that you may have life." So far from asserting that men of their own wills ever do such a thing, Christ boldly and flatly denies that, and says 'you will not.'
We are all of us, by nature, legally dead: "for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die" (Gen. 2:17), and though Adam did not die in that moment naturally, he sinned and died legally, that is to say, according God's law, and "thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12).
But, besides being legally dead, we are also spiritually dead. For the sentence of death also passed into the heart; it entered the conscience; it operated on the soul (Greek: "psyche" which is the root of the English word "psychology"), on the judgment, on the imagination, and on everything: "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die," something happened in Adam and now every man, so far as spiritual things are concerned is "dead in trespasses and sins," (Eph. 2:1). We are not what we once were; we are not what we were in Adam, not what we were created. Man was made pure and holy. We are altogether fallen, we have become corrupt and filthy: "There is none who does good, No, not one." (Psalm 53:3).
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Re LOVE: Since our soul is sinning (Ezek. 18:4), we cannot love without sin (selfishness). Everything about us is tainted by sin: "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags," (Isa. 64:6).
"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do... But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." (Rom. 7:14-20)
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The Sovereignty of God: "For who has resisted His will?" (Rom. 9:19)
Yes, "God knows us better than we know ourselves." More, God "knows all things" (1 John 3:20), God is omniscient.
The sovereignty of God of Scripture is absolute. To say that God is sovereign is to affirm his right to govern the universe, which he made for his own glory, just as he pleases, as a potter over the clay: "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Rom. 9:21) God is under no obligation to give an account of his matters to any. He is sovereign in the exercise of his power. Pharaoh dared to hinder Israel from going forth to worship Jehovah in the wilderness, and what happened? God exercised his power.
"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:14-21).
The sovereignty that God gave to Pharaoh was real. Pharaoh was in control of the Israelites and had the authority to say whether they could leave or not. When Jehovah God commanded Pharaoh to release the Israelites, as ruler over Egypt, Pharaoh said no. God certainly had the power to take the people whenever He pleased. But He didn’t take them out of Egypt until when? He didn’t take them out until Pharaoh said they could depart.
God did not force Pharaoh to do what he didn’t want to do, but God enabled him to do what he wanted to do.
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isa. 55:9)
The same is true in the story of Esther: Esther, Mordecai, King Ahasuerus and Haman each exercised their own wills, and yet God's will was done. Truly, you would really enjoy the treatise on God's Providence (see link above).Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-04-21 12:24:45
"Every man is dead because it says, “you are not willing to come to me that you may have life.”... The crux of the issue is that no man by nature ever will come to Christ, for the scripture says, “you are not willing to come to me that you may have life.” So far from asserting that men of their own wills ever do such a thing, Christ boldly and flatly denies that, and says ‘you will not.’"
You know Jesus was speaking, in verse 40, to the Jews who wanted to kill Him, right?
John 5:18-19 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus said to them..." He wasn't making a statement about every single human alive, that is, that no human alive is willing to come to him. He was speaking to the Jews that wanted to kill Him.Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-21 20:07:59
So, let me ask you, for whom was John 5:40 written? Was it recorded for Jews who sought to kill him? No, it is for everyone who is willing:
“For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.” (Rom. 15:4).
On another occasion, Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and said: “For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” (Mat. 9:13). Should we write-off this verse too? Since Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees?
No. Jesus, intends first, that all of his words to the Jews shall serve as a testimony, not merely to those that heard them, but also to the whole world. A better reaction would be: Do we recognize our own likeness in these Jews?
“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.” (John 5:39, 40).
Jesus here applies Isaiah’s prophecy to himself:
“Incline your ear, and come to Me, Hear, and your soul shall live.” (Isa 55:3).
(In the previous chapter, Jesus applied Isaiah 55:1 to himself with the Samaritan woman and to the Jews again at John 7:37, and again at Mat. 11:28.)
But why do the Jews reject the testimony of the Scriptures, which are so highly esteemed even by them? Why will they not, on the basis of this testimony, come to Christ that they may obtain life? Our Lord answers this question in the next verses (5:41-44), it’s because they seek not the praise of God, but the empty honor of men. This is the sad reason they were “not willing.”Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-04-22 11:52:42
"So, let me ask you, for whom was John 5:40 written? Was it recorded for Jews who sought to kill him? No, it is for everyone who is willing:"
I don't get the point of this question. Every single word in the Bible was written FOR God's people. That doesn't make every word in the Bible about God's people or spoken to God's people. From John 5:19-40 Jesus doesn't pause in His speaking. So, when He says His words in verse 40, He's talking to the same people He's been talking to since verse 19, namely, the Jews who were looking to kill Him.
"On another occasion, Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and said: “For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” (Mat. 9:13). Should we write-off this verse too? Since Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees?"
No, because Jesus was speaking TO the Pharisees about other people. But John 5:40 says; "But YOU are not willing to come to me that you may have life." Who is the "you" in question? The people Jesus was speaking to. Who are the people Jesus was speaking to? The Jews who wanted to kill Him... :/
"Jesus, intends... that all of his words to the Jews shall serve as a testimony, not merely to those that heard them, but also to the whole world."
I agree. And they are a testimony about the Jews that wanted to kill Him, not about every human being on planet earth.Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-22 13:22:55
The ONLY reason John 5:40 was recorded was to convict you/me of our need for a Savior so that we may “believe” and then “come to me [Jesus]” (John 5:38, 40).
“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.” (John 5:39).
If your/my purpose for reading the Scriptures isn’t for personal conviction of sin and to hear the Lord’s “call” (Mat. 9:13) “voice” (John 10:27), then you/I are no different than those unbelieving Jews to whom Jesus said:
“You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.” (John 5:37-40).
“The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart— These, O God, You will not despise.” (Psa. 51:17).
The Gospel is very simple and clear:
“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they [Paul and Silas] said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:30, 31).
“Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.” (John 8:24).
The Gospel is not in the JW doctrines. What is the purpose of this website? To complain about JW forever? JW is a cult. Now you know that we were duped. It’s time to move on and find “the truth”:
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.’” (John 14:6).
“Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice,” (Heb. 3:7).
“Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” (Heb. 4:7).
Or, you can keep on complaining about the JW cult...Reply by Bernabe on 2022-04-23 08:03:41
I like what you say: We know that JW deceived us. It's time to move on and find “the truth”. And the Truth is in Jesus and can only emanate from Jesus. Christ alone must be the touchstone of any doctrine; therefore, when considering any teaching we must always ask ourselves: What did Jesus teach about this? Did he Say something or show something by his example, so that he manifests his opinion? In this way we will be taught "according to the truth that is in Jesus" (Eph 4:21)
Reply by rajeshsony on 2022-04-23 14:46:40
"Or, you can keep on complaining about the JW cult…" Ok, but I almost never complain about JW's. I talk about them, and about certain of their beliefs, and I refute them. But I don't complain about them. I got over them long ago.
Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-24 18:53:35
Understood. It's very difficult and I struggled with it for many years. I'm grateful to have left so many years ago. I feel sad for those who learn late in life. But I am comforted in knowing "that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (Rom. 8:28).
Also, as Joseph said to his brothers (who had nearly killed him, and then sold him into slavery): "But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good" (Gen. 50:20).
Reply by rudytokarz on 2022-04-21 12:46:14
I agree that "...our beliefs must be based solely on God’s Word: Sola scriptura, by scripture alone..."
and that “man’s free will is very real, but we differ in our conclusions and now it is my hope to show what the Bible says about this."
Yes we do differ in our conclusions.
Can 'ordinary' people choose to follow (draw close to) God and thus receive his holy spirit OR do they receive his holy spirit and then follow God?
Can those chosen lose that standing? If not, why did Paul warn those in Corinth:
1 Cor. 6: 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
The Bible is full of New Testament warnings that wouldn't make sense if the chosen ones are 'predestined'. All must draw close to God and he will draw close to us. (James 4:8)
RudyReply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-21 21:12:18
Good question! This is the big one, you nailed it!
If God is sovereign, if God is in control of absolutely everything, then what role does human responsibility play?
We follow the apostle’s rule: “For what saith the scripture?” (Rom. 4:3)
1. GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY
Jesus emphatically said: “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3).
Now your/my question is much like Nicodemus’ response, “How?” (“How can a man be born when he is old?” v. 4) We had nothing to do with our first birth and Nicodemus understood Jesus’ analogy: ‘I want to see the kingdom of God and I need a new birth, How? I can’t do that.’
“Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5).
(Jesus always answered with Scriptures from the Old Testament.) Water, as used here, is consistently referred to in the Psalms and prophets to signify forgiveness of sins, as typified in the symbolism of the Mosaic law by material purification. David says, “Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin.” (Psa. 51:2). The prayer is for forgiveness of sins (see verses 9-11). “Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.” (vs. 10). Water and Spirit are in close connection with each other. In Ezekiel it says, “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.” (Ezek. 36:25, 26).
The “new birth” is an act of God: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (John 3:6). So we depend upon a spiritual work of God. We cannot enter the kingdom unless we are born again and we can’t birth ourselves. That is Jesus’ analogy. You can’t enter the kingdom of God unless God, in his divine sovereign power comes into your life and transforms you. All we can do is produce “flesh.”
“The wind* blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (John 3:8).
* Strong's Greek 4151 (pneuma): wind, breath, spirit.
The new birth is a divine act, a miracle. Go down to verse 27:
“John answered and said, ‘A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven.’” (John 3:27).
"Salvation is of Jehovah" (Jonah 2:9; ASV), but he does not save all. Why not? He does save some, so if he saves some, why not others? Is it because they are too sinful? No, for the apostle wrote, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief” (1 Tim. 1:15). Therefore, if God saved the “chief” of sinners, none are excluded because of their sinfulness. Why then does God not save all? Is it because some are too stony-hearted? No, because:
“Then I will give them one* heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh” (Ezek. 11:19).
* Strong's Hebrew 259 (echad): properly, united; one.
2. HUMAN RESPONSIBILITY
Now go back to John 3:14, 15: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”
And the very next verse (16): “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
And then (verses 18-21): “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.””
I cannot fully understand this because it appears paradoxical. But I believe it because the Bible says it.
“Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!” (Rom. 11:33).
This is good (lots and lots of Scriptures!):Does the Doctrine of the Divine Decrees Eliminate Human Will?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cIofN67U8
Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-25 19:43:51
In reply to your other question: “Can those chosen lose that standing [of salvation]?”
First, I have no sympathy whatsoever with the bald and unqualified declaration “Once saved always saved.” And neither did John Calvin! He referred to the “hogs” who teach that we may be both saved and live in sin and filth. Assurance of salvation must be based on a right understanding of what God’s Word teaches.
Also, there the possibility of self-deception.
We know the earthly church (“the kingdom”) is comprised of both wheat and tares (weeds) (Mat. 13:24-30). Like a net which collects “every kind,” both good and bad (Mat. 13:47-50). Like bread which contains “leaven” (Mat. 13:33; leaven is sin, 1 Cor. 5:8; Ex. 13:7; Deut. 16:3). Like sheep and goats (Mat. 25:31-46).
Also: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Mat. 7:21). So:
Eternal Security (“kept by the power of God”)
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1 Pet. 1:3-5).
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out… This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” (John 6:37, 39)
“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:28).
Assurance (Our experience)
"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)
See: Tried by Fire, "But he knows the way that I take; when he has tried me I shall come forth as gold." (Job 23:10)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1i6s7blv452xe7g/06%20Tried%20By%20Fire.mp3?dl=0
This is a very big subject, I highly commend Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952), “Comfort for Christians”:
Audio: Chapter 6, “Tried by Fire” (link above)
Audio: Chapter 2, “The Christian's Assurance” (free: close the popup and you can play the audio without creating an account):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9twy87p9r6kom8/02%20The%20Christian%27s%20Assurance.mp3?dl=0
Also, you can find the whole book at Audible.com.
Print (free):
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/pink/Comfort%20for%20Christians%20-%20A.%20W.%20Pink.pdf
Reply by webblog@email.com on 2022-04-26 23:25:04
"How To Use the Sword of the Word Against Afflictions":
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tc9tpo14eflu7bp/How%20To%20Use%20the%20Sword%20of%20the%20Word%20Aga.mp3?dl=0
by William Gurnall (1616-1679)
The link above is a reading of an excerpt from "The Christian in Complete Armour," a verse-by-verse exposition of Ephesians 6:11-19:
"Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist on the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, having belted your waist with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having strapped on your feet the preparation of the gospel of peace; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. With every prayer and request, pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be alert with all perseverance and every request for all the saints, and pray in my behalf, that speech may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel."
(the whole book is free online):
https://archive.org/details/ChristianInCompleteArmourOr/page/n17/mode/2up
(or, you can buy it from this publisher*):
https://banneroftruth.org/us/store/theauthor/gurnall-william/
P.S. The publisher, "Banner of Truth," was founded (in part) by Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899–1981).
Comment by Fani on 2022-04-18 11:00:35
Je ne crois pas que l'on puisse se servir de Phil 3 : 21 pour dire que nous aurons un corps spirituel qui peut se matérialiser en homme comme l'a fait Christ. Ça ne me semble pas être le sens de ce verset.
Il dit donc : "Il transformera notre corps de misère pour le rendre conforme à son corps glorieux par le pouvoir qu'il a de tout soumettre à son autorité. (Philippiens 3.21)
(Bible d'étude Segond 21).
Il oppose un corps de misère ou humble, le nôtre, au corps glorieux de Christ.
Est-ce qu'un corps physique est forcément un corps de misère ?
Sûrement pas ! Lorsque DIEU créa un corps physique à l'homme, cela fut très bon, selon les paroles de notre Créateur.
Très bon car un corps parfait.
Si aujourd'hui notre corps est humble et misérable, ce n'est pas parce qu'il est physique mais parce qu'il est imparfait, mortel, sous la condamnation du péché.
Un corps spirituel peut aussi, je crois, être un corps de misère.
C'est sûrement le cas des démons et de Satan qui ont un corps spirituel, qui ont pu se matérialiser (du temps de Noé) mais n'ont plus un corps glorieux malgré tout.
Ce n'est pas le cas de Christ qui a un corps glorieux parce qu'il est incorruptible, vivant.
Je ne crois pas que ce verset parle de la nature du corps (de chair ou d'esprit) mais il met en opposition la condition de ces corps : imparfait, mortel, donc de misère ou parfait, vivant, donc glorieux.
Quoiqu'il en soit, difficile sujet pour lequel, comme d'autres l'ont dit, nous connaissons que partiellement.
Pour ma part, je ne me demande pas où je serai.
Que la volonté de Dieu se fasse.
Comment by Fani on 2022-04-20 00:35:53
Oui, le fait d'avoir accepté Christ est une forme de résurrection, une résurrection symbolique. Passer de la mort spirituelle à la vie spirituelle.
"Si donc vous êtes ressuscités avec Christ, recherchez les choses d'en haut, où Christ est assis à la droite de Dieu." (Colossiens 3.1)
(Bible d'étude Segond 21).
Mais est-ce que Paul parle là de la première résurrection ?
Tu dis :
"Cependant, je ne parle pas de la résurrection des morts dans cette vidéo.
Dans cette vidéo, je parle de la première résurrection. LA PREMIÈRE RÉSURRECTION. Vous voyez, la première résurrection est la résurrection non pas des morts, mais des vivants. C'est l'espérance des chrétiens."
Il me semble que la 1ere résurrection concerne bien des morts littéraux qui reviennent à la vie littérale.
"Ensuite je vis des trônes, et ceux qui s'y assirent reçurent le pouvoir de juger. Je vis aussi l'âme de ceux qui avaient été décapités à cause du témoignage de Jésus et à cause de la parole de Dieu, tous ceux qui n'avaient pas adoré la bête ni son image et qui n'avaient pas reçu sa marque sur le front ni sur la main. Ils revinrent à la vie et ils régnèrent avec Christ pendant 1000 ans.
[Les autres morts ne revinrent pas à la vie avant que les 1000 ans soient passés.] C'est la première résurrection. (Apocalypse 20.5)
(Bible d'étude Segond 21).
Dans ces versets il s'agit bien de mort littérale et de résurrection littérale et cela concerne la 1ere résurrection, lors du jugement, lors de son retour.
Il ne s'agit pas de vivants qui seraient morts spirituellement.
Quand a lieu cette résurrection ?
"[C'est pourquoi] je t'en supplie, devant Dieu et devant [le Seigneur] Jésus-Christ qui doit juger les vivants et les morts au moment de sa venue et de son règne: (2 Timothée 4.1)
"Et comme tous meurent en Adam, de même aussi tous revivront en Christ,
mais chacun à son propre rang: Christ en premier, puis ceux qui appartiennent à Christ lors de son retour. (1 Corinthiens 15.23)
Je ne vois pas comment on peut qualifier la résurrection spirituelle dont parle Paul de "première résurrection".
Par contre, cette résurrection spirituelle peut être assimilée à "la nouvelle naissance".
Je suis désolée ; j'ai relu plusieurs fois ton développement mais je ne comprends pas ce que tu veux dire par "première résurrection''.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-04-20 09:15:17
Quand j'ai dit que je ne parlais pas des morts mais des vivants, j'essayais de faire un point sur le fait qu'en tant que chrétiens, nous ne sommes plus considérés comme morts par Dieu, mais vivants. Ainsi, même si nous mourrons physiquement et que nous serons ressuscités à la vie physique, notre véritable état devant Dieu - qu'il soit mort ou vivant - est VIVANT !
When I said I was not talking about the dead but the living, I was trying to make a point about the fact that as Christians, we are no longer considered dead by God, but alive. So even though we will die physically and we will be resurrected back to physical life, our true state before God--whether dead or alive--is ALIVE!Reply by Fani on 2022-04-20 21:04:28
Je suis d'accord Eric.
Mais ce n'est pas "LA PREMIÈRE RÉSURRECTION" dont parlent Paul et Jean.
Comment by kathrin on 2022-04-20 07:11:31
❤Hallo lieber Eric! ??♀️ Ich bin mir sicher, aus dir spricht der heilige Geist! Was Du tust ist wunderbar!!?❤vielen Dank fürs Teilen.?Gottes reichen Segen, lieber bruder❤jesus christus rettet❤
Comment by rajeshsony on 2022-04-21 12:33:15
Fantastic job on this video brother Eric! Wonderful conclusion to your two part series on the "heavenly hope". There are still many things we don't know and won't know until Jesus returns, and that's alright. All I know is that I trust in the goodness of our Lord Jesus and in His ability to reward us beyond anything we could ever imagine! To me, what matters the most is that I get to spend eternity with Jesus and with God. Whether that's on earth or in Heaven is somewhat trivial in comparison to the fact that we will live with Jesus and with God for eternity!!! Again, wonderful job brother Eric. :)
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-04-22 08:55:23
Thank you, rajeshsony!
Comment by yobec on 2022-06-12 21:42:37
Interesting viewpoint Eric.
The reason I personally think that Christians will be resurected in heaven as opposed to the earth is partly due to Paul's statement at Heb 11 : 40 which in part says that God planned something better for US ( Christians )
From Paul,s personal standpoint, it appeared to be better
Comment by yobec on 2022-06-12 21:51:03
Also, I have often wondered about those who will be coming back due to a resurection of judgement as perhaps simply meaning that they have been "judged" and found worthy of a resurection as opposed those who are of Christ and are beyond beeing judged as they have already passed over from judgement to life.
Comment by AnnaNana on 2022-11-04 23:02:55
Yes, kings and priests in Israel worked among the people, it follows that the pattern is the same. The anointed will work among the people on earth. Revelation 21 is so clear. We are a family, and families work together. The Bible is so awesome with so much good news!
I love that verse about the "third heavens"!
Sometimes "heavens" means sky, as in where the birds fly.
Sometimes "heavens" means up where angels live.
Sometimes "heavens" means governments or authorities or ruling systems.
Which "heavens" did Paul mean when he spoke of the "third heavens"?
"I have to boast. It is not beneficial, but I will move on to supernatural visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in union with Christ who, 14 years ago—whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows—was caught away to the third heaven. Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know; God knows— who was caught away into paradise and heard words that cannot be spoken and that are not lawful for a man to say."
Paul was so excited about this vision, he called it "an extraordinary revelation". Yet he also said that at the time he "heard words that cannot be spoken and that are not lawful for a man to say." Are they lawful to talk about today?
"As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant."
We live in the time of the end.
"Now when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write, but I heard a voice out of heaven say: “Seal up the things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them down.” The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth raised his right hand to heaven, and he swore by the One who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it and the earth and the things in it and the sea and the things in it: “There will be no delay any longer. But in the days when the seventh angel is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret that God declared as good news to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish.”"
Are we living in the time of the seventh trumpet?
Peter gives us the clues about the "third heavens".
Here is the first heavens: "For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were HEAVENS and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water." (2 Peter 3:5:6)
Here is the second heavens: "But by the same word the HEAVENS and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people." 2 Peter 3:7
Here is the third heavens: "Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat! But there are new HEAVENS and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell." 2 Peter 3:11-13
There was a "Heavens" that was destroyed in the days of the Flood. It was the government/authority/ruling system over the earth at that time. There was a "Heavens" that we are living under now, the governments/ruling authorities of this world. There are new "Heavens" we are awaiting, the kingdom arrangement.
The new kingdom government will make the earth like a paradise, just like Paul said. How? Where will the kingdom be? The kingdom comes down from heaven to the earth.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the spring of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son."
Why will it be a paradise? What makes a garden like paradise? It's not the fruit. It's who's in the garden with you. Who was in the garden with Adam and Eve? (and I don't mean the snake...) Who walked with them, talked with them, every day? Jehovah. Jehovah was there with them. What is the name of that city on earth? Jehovah Himself Will Be There. (Ezekiel 48:35)
"Let the little children come to me."
How would a little child understand that passage in Revelation 21? How would a little child understand "And God himself will be with them." "He will wipe out every tear from their eyes." Would a little child think, "oh, that's figurative"? No. A little child knows their daddy.
"In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him."
Jesus came to teach us what Jehovah is like. Jehovah is not a "figurative-hang-out-with-you-from-afar-only" kind of person. What was Jesus like? How close did he get to people? Did he hug kids? Jehovah will hug you, whether you live in heaven or on earth. Literally. (No wonder Paul was so excited about that vision!)
"With that he turned to the disciples and told them privately: “Happy are the eyes that see the things you are seeing. For I say to you, many prophets and kings desired to see the things you are observing but did not see them, and to hear the things you are hearing but did not hear them.”"
Jehovah is revealing these things to us. He has great affection for us!
"And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah."
“Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, for the appointed time is near."
“The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with the holy ones."
May you rejoice in his great love, dear ones!