Meeting the Children of God in Hemmental, Switzerland: We Interview Hans Orban

– posted by meleti


Thank you.


Eric: So, here we are in beautiful Switzerland. And we're here at the invitation of one of the children of God. One of the brothers and sisters, that have come to know us through the YouTube channel and the growing community,  worldwide community of the children of God.

And this is the beginning of our trip through Europe and the UK, which started basically on the 5th of May as we came to Switzerland. And we'll end – all going well – on the 20th of June as we leave from London to go back to Toronto.

And I'm speaking, when I say we, I mean Wendy, my wife and myself will be enjoying the fellowship of brothers and sisters from Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Italy, Spain, Denmark – forgot one, France, then Scotland. And all the way down through the UK to London again.

So, I'm going to try to share with you, we are going to try to share with you our time with all of these brothers and sisters, because we're calling this ‘meeting the children of God’, because the majority of us having been Jehovah's Witnesses. Not all. But the majority have come to realize, that we were denied the adoption as children, which was our right as Christians, as those, who put faith in Jesus Christ.

And so, for many getting out of false religion, organized religion or religion in itself, organized or otherwise, is a real problem. And it's a problem, because especially for Jehovah's Witnesses, because of the difficulty imposed by the rules of the religion, that causes our friends and family closest members, even children or parents, to shun a person, resulting in total isolation.

Well, we want to show everyone, that that's not a concern. Just as Jesus promised us: No one has abandoned father or mother or brother or sister or child for me, that won't get a hundredfold more and even more than that. Everlasting life, of course with persecutions, which is exactly what shunning is.

And so, we want to show that this is not the end. This is nothing to be sad about. This is something to rejoice over. Because it's actually the beginning of a new life. And so, we're hoping to do that in this series, which we'll share with you as we go from country to country and meet the children of God. Thank you.

So, I'm here with Hans, who is my new found brother. I just met him yesterday. And he flew in to be with us, which is wonderful. And he told me some very interesting things about his life. And so, Hans, please tell everyone about your life and where you come from, your background.

Hans: All right. I live in Berlin. And I was born in West Germany. When I was 25, I started a Bible study with the Jehovah's Witnesses. When I was 26, I got baptized. And I was so enthusiastic about ‚the truth’, that I started to be a full-time preacher. So, in 1974 I became a regular pioneer. And we all expected in 75 to be the end of the world, right?

Eric: Yes

Hans: I thought, I invest my time and my energy into field service. I wanted to do nothing but studying and preaching. So, 75 nothing happened. And I stayed a pioneer for 12 years. In 86, I became a special pioneer and was sent to southern Germany. And in 89 I participated in the first European ministerial training school in Bethel Vienna.

Eric: Right.

Hans: Then, I was sent to an English congregation in Mönchengladbach, West Germany, near the Dutch border. And then the East opened up. The Berlin Wall fell in 89.

Eric: Right. It was exciting times.

Hans: And then the Watchtower Society started to send people over to help where the need is greater. So then, in East Germany I served in different congregations. And in 2009 I married and had to quit the special pioneer service. So, the last year, I started to doubt our leadership, our leading Governing Body, because of their vaccination propaganda. And I checked in the internet, whether they became …, whether they got money from the government.

Eric: Right.

Hans: The mayor of New York, Mario de Blasio, and a special television interview. He recommended Jehovah's Witnesses by name.

Eric: Right. Very unusual.

Hans: Their cooperation in the campaign for vaccination. So in the Watchtower Broadcast they published, that 98% in the Bethel are vaccinated already. And then they expected the special pioneers also. And all the missionaries and all in all Bethel homes around the world. They were expected to be vaccinated. So, I didn't like this propaganda. And I started to question and researched the organization in the internet. I discovered many videos, also yours. About ex- … From ex-witnesses about the organization. So, I started to study the Bible independent of the Watchtower. I only read the Bible and I listened to what others had to say, who knew the Bible even better than I did. This process lasted about six months. And then I wrote a letter to my elders, that I do not want to report any preaching service anymore.

Eric: Right.

Hans: My conscience, my conscience didn't allow me to propagate false teachings. And I had to quit. Then they invited me for an interview. And I had the opportunity, for two hours, to explain to the elders, why I did not want to be a Jehovah's Witness anymore. But after the two hours the only thing they wanted to know from me, was: Do you still accept the Governing Body as the ‘faithful and discreet slave’.

Eric: Right.

Hans: So, I expected them as shepherds to open up the Bible and to help me to understand the Bible. I told them all the false teachings, I had discovered about 1914, about the Governing Body in 1919, about 1975, about the 144.000. And how they falsely handle the memorial, where they hinder the people from taking the symbols bread and wine. So many wrong teachings, I discovered. Then I said: I cannot come anymore. I'm done with my Jehovah's Witnesses. Then some days later, they invited me to a judicial committee.

Eric: Oh yes. Of course.

Hans: I refused to go. This didn't make sense to me, since anything I told them, they did not accept.

Eric: Right.

Hans: So, this conversation was superfluous. Yes. And I just refused to go. And then they disfellowship me. They told me by the telephone, that I was disfellowshipped. And they couldn't have any contact with me.

Eric: Right.

Hans: So, and then I searched for other true Christians. I was interested to get to know people, who are following the Bible, the pure language of the Bible without influence from any organization.

Eric: Yes.

Hans: Since I knew from experience: Following men is the wrong way to do. My king, teacher, rabbi, whatever.

Eric: Yes.

Hans: My redeemer is Jesus Christ. I came back to Jesus Christ. As Peter said: To whom shall we go? So, that's what I did. I went to Jesus Christ, right.

Eric: And that's where you are now right now.

Hans: I'm among people who follow the true worship according to the Bible.

Eric: Right. Exactly. And what I find remarkable is, that you did all this after a lifetime of service much like myself, even more so. And you did it because you loved truth. It's not because you were following an organization or wanted to belong to an organization.

Well, I have a few questions I'd like to ask everyone. So, let me just run through them. So, you can express your own views on these things. Because the idea here is to find ways to encourage our brothers and sisters out there, who are going through the trauma of leaving the doubts, the guilt, that's infused into the brain, through many decades of indoctrination. So, the first one is … We've actually already answered the first one. Let's go to the second one: Can you share with us specific scriptural problems, that come to those who follow men rather than Christ?

Hans: A scripture would be Matthew 15 verse 14, where Jesus said to the Pharisees: Woe to you blind leaders, those who follow you will fall with you into the pit. When a blind person leads a blind person, both fall into the pit. So, that's what the Governing Body does: They are blind leaders and those who follow them, because they don't know better, they will end up in a disaster.

Eric: Yes. Yeah, exactly. Right. Good. What problems do you identify for the children of God leaving the organization? We refer to the children of God as all those, who have been adopted as through the faith in Jesus, right?  How do you feel, that the children of God awakening around the world can best help or be helped to cope with the problem of being shunned.

Hans: Yeah. Once you are disfellowshipped …. Usually, your only friends are Jehovah's Witnesses. Then you are all by yourself. You lose your friends. If you have a family, there is a split in the family.

Eric: Yeah, yeah.

Hans: You lose all your contacts. They don't talk to you anymore. Many suffer from being lonely. Suddenly they fall into depression. Some people even committed suicide, out of desperation, because they were lost. They didn't know, where to belong, where to go. They were so desperate, that they took their own life. This is major problem.

Eric: Yeah.

Hans: And those, who are in this position, we should help. We, who are outside already, we can offer them our comfort, our company, our encouragement. And they can learn the truth, the real truth, not taught by the Governing Body, but by the Bible, the inspired word of God. So, I recommend they pray. They pray for guidance, that God lets them have contact with real Christians. They should study the Bible independently from any organization. You can listen to different opinions. Then later you have to make up your own mind.

Eric: Yes.

Hans: But it all should, all you believe should be grounded on the scripture.

Eric: Exactly.

Hans: Because the scripture is inspired by God.

Eric: Okay. Very good. I completely agree. Can you share a scripture with us, that you feel is helpful for those coming out of the organization?

Hans: A nice scripture would be Matthew 11:28:  Where Jesus invited people to come to him. Come to me, all you are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. So, come to Jesus. Let him be your head, your king, your teacher, your shepherd, your good shepherd. That's what Jesus also said: I am the good shepherd. John 10 verse 14. I am the good shepherd. Come to me.

Eric:  Yes.

Hans: If we belong to his flock, we are at the right place.

Eric: Very good. Very good. What is one piece of advice that you can share with those awakening and learning to follow Christ and not men?

Hans: They should stand on their own feet, not be dependent on a Governing Body telling them, what to believe. We can read the Bible all by ourselves. We have a brain. We have a mind. We have understanding. We can pray for Holy Spirit. And then we will see, what the real truth is all about. They should pray for Holy Spirit, wisdom knowledge and for God's help to bring them into contact with the real Christian congregation. With people, who love Jesus above all.

Eric: Exactly.

Hansa: And take the symbols: Bread and Wine. That's the commandment of Jesus. He said to his disciples: Do this always in remembrance of me.

Eric: Yes.

Hans: The bread symbolizes his body, which he offered and the blood, the wine represents the blood, which was spilled. While he was dying.

Eric: Yes.

Hans: For our sins. 

Eroc: Yes.

Hans: He is our redeemer. He is the ransom. And we should believe in him and follow him and do at the memorial as he told his disciples, right, at the last supper.

Eric: Very good. Well. Thank you for sharing all that. It's going to be very helpful to those, who are going through, what you've gone through, beginning to go through it or maybe have already gone through it. But are having trouble letting go of some of the power of that indoctrination, or the guilt, that comes from the thought, that, you know, you're going to die, if you don't stay in the organization.

Hans: We don't need to be afraid, once we leave the organization. The Governing Body does not save us. We do not need to wait for any directions from the Governing Body. The ones who save us are Jesus Christ and his angels.

Eric: Exactly.

Hans: They are the ones, who rescue us. Not the Governing Body. They have a lot to do to rescue themselves.

Eric: Very good. Thank you very much, sharing all that with us. And now, we're going to press you into service as a translator, because we're going to now interview Lutz, who is our host here in Switzerland.



Archived Comments

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  • Comment by Psalmbee on 2023-05-12 09:30:33

    Hans seemed like a nice man who has been deceived all his life but is not going to have anymore of it. (Good for him)!

    I really hope you have a nice time on your ventures Meleti.

    So many people around this entire World have been infected by the WT and their poison.

    I wish you would have had the cameras rolling a few years back when I met you down around the Savannah way.

    Have a great time Eric and enjoy yourself!!


    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2023-05-14 02:49:22

      Me too. That was a pleasant meeting with you.

  • Comment by sachanordwald on 2023-05-13 01:40:03

    Hello all,

    is there only one way? Either I remain a Jehovah's Witness or I leave Jehovah's Witnesses? Aren't there many shades of grey between black and white, which can also be very beautiful? Is there only one right and one wrong? Is everything that comes from the "Watchtower Society" toxic and harmful, or are there not also many beautiful reports of how our brothers and sisters have been helped to come to terms with themselves, with their environment and with our Father Jehovah and His Son Jesus? I appreciate Eric's educational work very much. But in the final analysis, do I have to separate myself from Jehovah's Witnesses? Is that what my Lord Jesus wants from me?

    I know many brothers with us who have often said in the past, when there were changes in doctrinal issues, that they were not convinced even before that our understanding was correct on a particular doctrinal issue. This, to me, is the key to dealing with differing opinions. The Governing Body says of itself that it is not inspired and can be wrong on organisational and doctrinal issues. 

    Our interpretations as Jehovah's Witnesses reflect our opinion of how we understand the Bible at the present time. For me, this interpretation has two parts. One part is clearly provable by the Bible, because I can prove every statement or explanation by the Bible. In the other part, we "believe" that our statements can be proven by the Bible. In doing so, many Jehovah's Witnesses and also ex-Witnesses overlook the fact that these are only assertions, assumptions or interpretations of the Bible that reflect our current understanding of the Bible. This current interpretation can be right, wrong or only a half-truth. For this reason I am very glad about Eric's website and his commitment. He has helped me to see the Bible from a completely different side. This has helped me a lot in my Christian life so far.

    Nevertheless, I ask myself: Do I have to argue with or separate myself from my brothers and sisters especially on doctrinal issues that only reflect our interpretation today, if they have a different view of what the Governing Body says? This is where love for my Father Jehovah, for my neighbour and for myself comes into play for me. I experience it again and again that in comments in the Watchtower study I use the words: "According to our current biblical knowledge, we see it this way or that way". Only rarely does someone ask if I see it differently. Then I can explain how certain scriptural texts can be explained differently in context. Often such an explanation of the different views is enough and they leave it at that. 

    With many of my brothers I experience the same reaction that Jesus experienced when he said or explained something. Jesus spoke in parables that sounded nice to people. Only a few asked questions. Usually only his disciples, who then asked Jesus to explain this parable to them. Here I try to follow my Lord.

    It is different with teachings that are proven beyond doubt by the Bible, here I have to take a stand in the congregation. As an example, our Father Jehovah and his Son Jesus are two persons or personalities who do not belong to a two- or threefoldness. Here Jesus clearly took a stand, and so do I. This teaching is relevant to salvation. Whoever worships Jesus and believes that he is thereby worshipping Jehovah does not enter the kingdom of God.

    To all other interpretations, such as 607, 1914, 1919, the 144,000, the calling of the faithful and understanding slave and much more, I can only say that you can certainly understand it that way if you want to, but it cannot be proven beyond doubt biblically and is therefore only our interpretation today. Such teachings are not relevant to salvation. Here, in love for my God Jehovah and for my neighbour, I can allow different views without immediately messing with these people or separating myself from them.

    So if someone is convinced to drink from the bread and wine at the Lord's Supper, let him do so, as I do. If he thinks it is enough to take part in the Lord's Supper only as a silent observer, then let him see it that way. If his spirit here does not yet agree with the spirit of our Father, so be it. I do not want to persuade my brothers against their will. Jesus did not do that either. If my brothers prefer to hold on to their "Israelite earthly hope" rather than the "Christian hope", then I must respect that and go a different way for myself. But I can continue to comfort them and help them to keep the commandments of our Lord and to believe in the one who sent him. Knowing full well that I, too, as a Christian and a child of God, can err.

    • Reply by rudytokarz on 2023-05-13 07:54:29

      I do agree with your a point. I have found that the Bible does not agree with many/most of the Governing Body's teachings and therefore I am no longer an active JW; the only activity is some Zoom meetings. I do not see the need to discuss or argue any doctrinal points with anyone (except with my PIMI wife) or disassociate myself because I know what the Organizational reaction would be: "Do you believe that the Governing Body is Jehovah's only channel on earth?" And my answer would be NO and .... well we all know the final outcome. That exclusivity and 'only us' mentality is THE problem. I simply choose not to be part of it as before; I also meet with a local men's Bible discussion group (non-denominational), follow Eric site and read the Bible as never before.
      In time I hope to find a local outlet for association and discussion to a larger degree but I don't see the point of continuing on the JW hamster wheel of corporate policy and self-centeredness.
      The individuals in the group are mostly fine Christians but the Organization seems to have a life of it's own that I cannot abide.

      • Reply by sachanordwald on 2023-05-17 13:02:31

        Hello Rudy,

        thank you for your comment. I see your dilemma. There is one question that can happen, "I consider the Governing Body a faithful and understanding slave appointed by Jesus". It can happen to me too. With all the questions I have faced or been asked in my life, a sales trainer once made me realise that I don't have to answer all the questions on the spur of the moment. As children, we are used to our parents answering yes or no to a question there is one question. This is also the case with pupils and teachers. But this is not an equal answer as it is common among adults. When I communicate with someone on one level, I can decide for myself whether I simply answer yes or no to certain questions. 

        The point of my answers is to persuade the other person on my behalf, whether they like it or not. That is why I have learned that it is important to internalise: Agreement in my sense and satisfaction with the answer are not always identical.

        It is always helpful to consider the background of the question. In this case, it is our faithfulness to Jesus and his call to be a faithful and understanding slave. We are both aware that there is no biblical evidence that the slave was "officially appointed" in 1919. There is neither a certificate of appointment, nor witnesses who were present at the appointment, nor is it known who could count themselves among the "appointed". 

        Nevertheless, there is one question: Am I in special loyalty to Jesus? For me it is certain: "I stand loyal to Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ and to everything they will do in the past, in the present and in the future. With the same loyalty I will support the brothers of Christ as long as they are faithful to Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ. In the spirit of Acts 5:29: "We must obey God as Lord and not men". Anyone can have that from me in writing and I would testify to it under oath. 

        Will this satisfy those who asked me? Not necessarily, because they only wanted to elicit a "yes" or a "no" from me. But there is one question, because they have received a more comprehensive answer. The questioners may not be satisfied with the answer. I have received agreement in my sense. Should they still say, "That is not the answer to their question," I can still respectfully tell them that their question is an attack on my integrity towards Jehovah, Jesus Christ and the brothers of Christ. They will not get more than my declaration of loyalty just described. 

        How do we manage to answer questions in this way? We often do it unconsciously in our daily lives. Let's just consciously practise answering questions always in our sense, without telling the untruth. Hence this little digression.

    • Reply by Psalmbee on 2023-05-13 11:47:20

      Hey Sach,

      You ask if there is only one way?

      I ask: When then door slams shut can you have one foot in the door and one out of the door? (If you're already one legged you just might be alright! The main thing is to still be standing after the storm.)

      Psalmbee, (Jn 14:6)

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2023-05-14 03:21:52

      I'm sure you would encourage a Catholic or Baptist to leave their religion because they teach the trinity which you view as a salvation issue. You would surely consider that the command at Revelation 18:4 to "get out of her if you do not want to share in her sins" must apply to them. You would also agree that remaining in a religion that teaches lies (false doctrines) would make a person complicit in promoting such lies. This would cause the person to lose out on life.

      Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying.’ (Revelation 22:15)

      I cannot see how you would consider as "not a salvation issue" the organization's main teaching that only 144,000 are chosen to be God's children while the rest "must be content with God's friendship and hope for a earthly resurrection of the righteous--a teaching not found in scripture.

      There can be no teaching more central to our salvation than the call to be God's children, and denying the flock such a hope makes anyone teaching this abomination of a doctrine liable to end up in Gehenna.

      . . .“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Ge·henʹna twice as much so as yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

      There is only one salvation hope, not two.

      . . .One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism;  one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

      There is only the spirit and the flesh. Being led by the spirit leads to life. Being led by the flesh, leads to death. But being led by the spirit makes us God's children, not his friends. Yet the Governing Body teaches the Rutherford lie that only 144,000 can be God's children and inherit life from God as their father. So they claim the other sheep are led by God's spirit, but are not adopted as his friends. They only get an "I.O.U." from God that they can cash in at the end of the thousand years if they continue to behave themselves. What unscriptural nonsense.

      . . .For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”  The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children.  If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together. (Romans 8:14-17)

      I agree that if your "brothers prefer to hold on to their “Israelite earthly hope” rather than the “Christian hope”, then [you] must respect that and go a different way for [your]self." However, if you remain in the organization and continue to support it either overtly or tacitly, you are not going a different way. You are not confessing the Lord before men.

      . . .“Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. (Matthew 10:32, 33)

      I'm afraid that simply partaking in the midst of the JW congregation at the memorial won't cut it, since they will see that action as merely confirming that you accept there are only 144,000 places and that either you yourself are worthy or you're being presumptuous. But they won't see that as a declaration of the truth about salvation unless you tell them so, and if you tell them so, you'll be kicked out as an apostate.

      • Reply by jwc on 2023-05-14 04:01:57

        I would encourage members of the catholic church to examine their religion but I would not encourage them to leave their "faith" in Christ. There is a difference and sometimes I think we fail to understand this point.

        Knowledge, even accurate knowledge, is a qualifiable reference, and I know of no wo/man (apart from what I read in scripture) who can claim to hold such knowledge.

        The catholic church does "good works" - a total of 43,800 schools and 5,500 hospitals, 18,000 clinics and 16,000 homes for the elderly - that no other organised religion comes close to achieving. But also, it has serious faults (CSA).

        Entry into God's kingdom is not an academic exam we sit down and write. There is only one qualification needed and that is our record of the love we show to all we meet, particularly those who are in need . . . Rom 13:8-10

        Can I please ask a question: What is the first occurrence of God's name recorded in Scripture?

    • Reply by jwc on 2023-05-14 04:11:20

      Sachanorwold, thank you for your comments, I can see that you are a very honest and sincere person.

      After the death and resurrection of our Beloved Christ, the apostles did not separate themselves from the Jewish organised religious system. In fact they became more hold and active in reaching out to those responsible for his death. hold me no fear. They are just ordinary wo/man in need of enlightenment. I am praying that Jehovah will bless me with his Spirit to give me the strength to go into the Kingdom halls and preach the truth to all my brothers and sisters.

      I would love to hear more news from you in your fight for the truth.

      I send my love to you and all like you who have such love for our Beloved Brother the Christ.

    • Reply by Frankie on 2023-05-14 05:50:09

      Dear Sachanordwald, I am glad that you expressed your thoughts about staying in the WT Organization. Allow me to respond to some of the thoughts in your comment, which reflect not only your position, but certainly the position of many brothers and sisters in the Organization. My words may sound too straight, but take them from a brother who loves you.

      A. You wrote: „Is there only one way? “
      Psalmbee answered you very well with the words of Jesus (John 14:6). There is nothing to add to that. Yes, there is only one way, to follow Jesus Christ, our only leader, and not to conceited people who must constantly correct their (not Jesus') doctrines. Do you believe that Jesus is the truth? Do you believe the Bible is right? Are you sure that the doctrines of 144000, 1919, 1914 and many others are lies? If you are sitting in the Kingdom hall on a chair that is the property of the Organization, then which chair are you sitting on - the chair of truth or the chair of lies?

      B. You wrote: „Is everything that comes from the “Watchtower Society” toxic and harmful, or are there not also many beautiful reports of how our brothers and sisters have been helped to come to terms with themselves, with their environment and with our Father Jehovah and His Son Jesus?“

      I will answer you with a question. Is the whole soup toxic when there are so many delicious things in it, so many healthy things, it tastes so delicious, but there is only a pinch of strychnine in it? Yes, someone has been helped. But all this ends at the moment you question the role of GB, who put themselves in a place that does not belong to them. Maybe you need to experience how your best friends and the shepherds who "kindly feed“ the flock will turn away from you in the street because you died for them, because that strychnine started working in them. Love ended, the GB program was activated in their mind. Maybe then you will understand.

      C. You wrote: ”But in the final analysis, do I have to separate myself from Jehovah's Witnesses? Is that what my Lord Jesus wants from me?”

      The answer is again in the powerful verse: "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)
      GB has stood between you and Christ, they have declared themselves to be Christ's information channel and at the same time they claim that they have the right to be wrong (???), they continue to preach false doctrines, they use shunning to emotionally blackmail the flock, they cover up child abuse from the authorities, they turned the Lord's Supper into a show ... have I continue? Is it a way? Is it true? Will GB save someone's life? Does it make sense to be registered in such an organization? The Lord Jesus said well about them:
      “In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Matthew 15:9)

      D. You wrote: „The Governing Body says of itself that it is not inspired and can be wrong on organisational and doctrinal issues. “
      However, this claim is directly contradicted by Kenneth Flodin, the GB member:
      “The Governing Body could be likened to the voice of Jesus, the head of the congregation. So, when we willingly submit to the faithful slave [another term for the Governing Body], we are ultimately submitting to Jesus' authority and direction.”“

      If someone declares himself to be the only information channel of Jesus Christ, to be His only spokesman, then he has no right to be mistaken. Not in a single case! Because otherwise it makes Jesus Christ a liar! Therefore, if the GB claims for itself the same authority as our Lord, and then if the GB fails in doctrinal or organizational matters, it will mean that Kenneth Flodin has committed blasphemy.

      E. You wrote: „So if someone is convinced to drink from the bread and wine at the Lord's Supper, let him do so, as I do. If he thinks it is enough to take part in the Lord's Supper only as a silent observer, then let him see it that way. If his spirit here does not yet agree with the spirit of our Father, so be it. I do not want to persuade my brothers against their will. “

      Taking the symbols at the Lord's Supper is a matter of forgiveness of sins. It is the command of Jesus Christ to his followers. The one who is there only as a silent observer remains in sin. At that moment, he or she despises the shed blood of Jesus. They were told a lie and they believed the lie. Do you know the truth? What would our brother Paul tell you? "Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another." (Ephesians 4:25)

      Please, tell them the truth and persuade them. Please, imitate our brother Paul (1 Cor 4:16; 11:1; Philippians 3:17), who persuaded people (Acts 18:4; 28:23; 2 Cor 5:11). What if God wants to use you to open someone's eyes? Please, try to bring them from darkness to light.

      The Lord said: “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” (John 8:12) If they do not partake, they will not be in the New covenant and remain in sin, because the Lord said: "for this is my blood of the [new] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matt 26:28). The Lord's Supper, as presented by the WT Organization, is an event that prevents people from receiving forgiveness, which I believe is one of the biggest sins of the WT (if not the biggest) and it is disrespect for a reminder of the greatest event in human history, when the Lamb's blood opened the door to eternal life for all.

      Dear Sachanordwald, my brother, in no case do I want to advise you what you should or should not do. I am not in your shoes and I am not the master of your conscience. I just presented my view of the situation in the WT Organization as food for thought.
      I wish that our Lord Jesus Christ, our only leader and teacher (Matt 23:8-10), always stands by you and always shows you the way of life. And to give you strength to live as He lived (Philippians 4:13).
      God bless you. Frankie

      • Reply by jwc on 2023-05-14 06:42:06

        Hi Frankie,

        We are all different and we cope with the same problem in our own way. I am 100% sure that Sachanordwald will find the peace is he seeking. Let us all show him a little love and encouragement at this time. Jehovah never fails to help those who are sincere in their search for truth.

        • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2023-05-14 17:23:37

          So beautifully reasoned, my dear brother, Frankie.

  • Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2023-05-15 08:01:02

    There are some pretty direct comments here, but it might be good to recall Naaman, Nicodemus, and maybe others. If some are in the process of leaving, there may be a number of reasons why they have yet to get out completely. The call is to get out of Babylon if we do not wish to share in her sins. It is amazing how long a person can put on a show for the sake of their family, as an example. The question arises "Do I show by my actions and what I say that I support the Organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses" ?
    we must be careful not to judge what we cannot see. Obviously we should not tell others what they should should do, for it might just come back to bite you.

    I am here because I love truth, and am very grateful to Eric for this site and all you ones who support it. This was Jesus message to Pilate at John 18:37 - Everyone on the side of truth listens to my voice. For me personally, I feel that it is possible to do much good by being available to help others see the truth, for I am sure that there are many who do not believe all that they are taught. .

    You will not see me at a meeting, you will not see me on the cart, or going from House to House to push people to accept the Organisation.. I will not sign a blood card, but, for the sake of family, I will be present on zoom, and I may comment on scriptures, but those comments will not support the Organisation's teaching, unless that actually agrees with scripture. . What you think of me is up to you. What Jehovah or Jesus thinks of me, that is a different question. I will let them judge in due course.

    • Reply by Psalmbee on 2023-05-15 23:50:25

      Greetings LJ,

      I'm feeling you brother.

      We all know it's not easy being between a Rock (Christ) and a hard place (WT). Babylon has many residents and from what I understand there is no lost and found department. You must be found outside the city limits because all are lost who are within the city limits.

      It's not easy being outside the city either my friend, you can easily get the feeling the Apostle Paul got when he went into Macedonia. (2Cor 7:5)

      Keep fighting for truth and stand up for what you know to be truth. Dismantle the false teachings that have been so meticulously taught to you and still being spewed.(Ep 4:20-21).


      • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2023-05-16 03:32:36

        Thanks for the kind thought, Psalmbee. No one said it would be easy (getting out). There is nothing in the Org for me, and still its hard.

        • Reply by Psalmbee on 2023-05-16 16:54:16

          Your family is still in otherwise you would have been on the run a longtime ago. This I know is the only thing keeping you gated.

          Psalmbee, (Heb 13:12-13)

          • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2023-05-17 12:58:38

            Spot on Psalmbee

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2023-05-17 21:24:23

    Morning all

    It’s interesting how this whole conversation seems to revolve around the governing body.

    Are they the only channel that Jesus is using today? Or “WHO” is the faithful and wise servant or slave that the master has appointed?

    For all those who think this is a trivial question let me relate to you what happened last weekend when we had a get together at our place.

    The elders have just finished their elders school, and some of them were so pumped about the information they received from the governing body, or the faithful and discreet slave.

    My wife thought this is a terrific opportunity for the elders, and the others to weigh in on her question that she paused.

    Question was simple. Why don’t I believe the governing body is appointed by Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ here on the Earth as the only channel that God and his son is using today?

    Mind you, I had a number of brothers and their wives present. How can I obey God as ruler, and his son rather than men?

    I paused the question to them: Why do I need the holy spirit to help me understand the Scriptures, when I have the governing body that interprets the Scriptures for me? What’s the role of the holy spirit in my life, to help me choose what kind of shoes I’m going to wear or buy, black ones or brown ones, or what sort of apples am going to buy green ones or red ones?

    Without fail, every one of them said, you need the holy spirit to help you understand the Scriptures. So I asked again, if the governing body interprets the Scriptures for me, why do I need the holy spirit in the first place?

    I gave them an example, I asked suppose I am an atheist, and I would like to understand the Bible, and I met a Jehovah’s Witness, and he told me about their website how I can read the Bible and get the exact interpretation of it, the Only interpretation of it that can get me to everlasting life and to know God.

    So now my question was, why does the atheist need the holy spirit to understand the Bible and get him close to God if the slave class or the governing body claims to have the right, the exact, interpretation of the Bible at the moment and no other source can equal it as being the Only channel between God and man?

    Joseph of the Bible made the statement before Pharaoh of Egypt, ALL interpretations belong to God and Not to Man.

    So again, I paused the question: Why do I need the holy spirit if the slave class or the governing body claims to know the exact interpretation for the Scriptures at this time?

    Needless to say some said well that’s true, but we don’t claim to know all the interpretation of the Bible. I quickly said neither do I, however do you see me make the statement that if you want to know God and his son and his future purposes, I am the only channel that God is using here on the Earth?

    In conclusion, I made the statement that Jesus said anyone is given the holy spirit if they ask the father in his name. That’s it, so then, “WHO” is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master has appointed to give the right food at the right time? I made the statement that applies to everyone of us that feeds each other from God’s word.

    I felt like the apostle Paul when he caused a division among the people, some believed of what he said about the resurrection, and others wanted to do a way with him. Mind you I had a few elders in that get together.

    Should I have walked away from answering Yes or no? I personally believe when someone wants to take the place of being a mediator between God and man, righteous indignation arises within me, and I do not know when to stop, no matter where I am, or who I am speaking with.

    I am PIMO my wife and the elders know about this. What surprises me is that I have not been called before a judicial committee. All the elders know, if you want to council me, use the Bible Not the WT publications.

    Unfortunately, I am like some on this website, who would Love to leave, But we know what that would lead to. Only the governments by means of our heavenly father and his son is able to change the policies and procedures regarding shunning, so people or brothers and sisters everywhere can express their opinions without any repercussions from the family members and friends. Hopefully Norway has opened the way for Europe and the rest of the world to look into the practice of shunning that the witnesses have.

    Love to all and well done Eric, incidentally, I love that belt that you are wearing.

    • Reply by sachanordwald on 2023-05-18 02:09:03

      Hello James, 

      thank you for your refreshing words. The hype around the faithful slave is ultimately caused by the Governing Body themselves, probably because they fear for their authority. They could counteract this hype by simply serving their brethren without constantly insisting on their appointment. I have been wondering for years why they always have to recommend themselves. Neither Jesus, nor his apostles, nor his disciples did that. 

      For me it is not important whether the slave was officially appointed, whether he was appointed in 1919 or whether he is the only slave. What matters to me is that everyone who is baptised in the name of Jehovah, in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, carries the Gospel with his life. Let us encourage one another to hold fast to all that Jesus has commanded us. I enjoy being with brothers and sisters who do this, because they prove to be faithful stewards who, as Hebrews 13 says, show by their imperfect lives that they are models in the faith. Exemplars in the faith do not need authority given to them by appointment from Jesus or whomever. These Christians have a natural authority for me because I feel the Holy Spirit working through them.

      Thank you to all who walk this path.

  • Comment by Ad_Lang on 2023-05-18 22:23:38

    It's good to hear the stories of those who have been thrown back to their own company, kept their faith and found like-minded brothers and a new family.

    My own story is not very interesting in that sense, because a year and a half before I was disfellowshipped for being critical, I had met like-minded people who were concerned about the misinformation spread by politicians and mainstream media about the C.V. panpanic from the first months of 2020. A mixture of Christians and non-Christians. I had the opportunity to develop a new social network that I could slide into, as it were, when I was thrown out by the local congregation.

    Maybe that is the advice that I can give: as Br Orban already said, pray for holy spirit and guidance to find proper friends and like-minded people. Then act on your prayer and reach out to come across people soon, long before reaching a judicial committee stage (or going completely inactive). I have no doubt that despite the challenges of social control, there will be a way to evade it for a while. Use that time. Perhaps find something that gives you an excuse, like going to the gym for exercise. Many of the friends and acquiantances I found are not Christian, but we have learned to be in peace and reach out across political and religious/spiritual divisions.

    So by the time I was isolated within the congregation, I had already made friends and soon after, I met a number of Christians in different settings. I first partook of the emblems in a baptist church, about 10 months before I was thrown out by the JW congregation.

    During the latest weeks, when I knew disfellowshipping was bound to happen soon, I spoke out carefully and openly to individual brothers. I made a point of mentioning that if they were to decide to ignore me, I would not hold it against them. Only days ago, I spoke again briefly with one of those brothers, a friend within the congregation, for the first time in about 20 months. Another younger brother did see it, but he and I are on greeting terms already anyway.

    Bottomline: if you prepare, you may strike a chord if you get disfellowshipped (for the good reason) and continue as happy as ever - consistently. If you can do that, you can disprove the claim that disfellowshipped brothers/sisters are and/or feel miserable. Remember that joy is also a fruit of holy spirit, so you might as well ask for a reason to have joy despite being persecuted for standing up for Jesus.

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