“…if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; ³⁹ but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them. . .” (Ac 5:38, 39)

These words were spoken by Gamaliel, the man who instructed Saul of Tarsus who later became the apostle Paul. Gamaliel was standing before the Sanhedrin discussing what to do with a pestilent sect of Jews who were proclaiming Jesus as the resurrected son of God. While they heeded the words of their esteemed colleague on this occasion, the men occupying that exalted chamber, that supreme court of Jewish justice, also imagined that their work was from God and so could not be overthrown. Their nation had been established 1,500 years before by miraculous delivery from servitude in Egypt and had been endowed with divine law through the mouth of God’s prophet, Moses. Unlike their forefathers, these leaders were loyal to the Law of Moses. They did not engage in idolatry as the men of former times had done. They were the approved of God. This Jesus had predicted that their city and its temple would be destroyed. What nonsense! Where else in all the earth was the one true God, Jehovah, worshipped? Could one go to pagan Rome to worship him, or to the pagan temples in Corinth or Ephesus? Only in Jerusalem was true worship practiced. That it could be destroyed was utterly ridiculous. It was inconceivable. It was impossible. And it was less than forty years away.

It follows that even when a work is from God and cannot be overthrown by outside forces, it can be corrupted from within so that it is no longer ‘from God’, at which point it is vulnerable and can be overthrown.

This lesson from the nation of Israel is one to which Christendom should pay heed. But we are not here to talk about all the thousands of religions on earth today that claim to be Christian. We are here to talk about one in particular.

Is there a correlation of attitude between Jehovah’s Witnesses today and the Jewish leaders of the first century?

What did the Jewish leaders do that was so bad? Scrupulously obey the Law of Moses? Hardly seems like a sin. True, they added many additional laws. But was that so bad? Was it such a sin to be overly strict in the observance of law? They also put many burdens on the people, telling them how to conduct themselves through every aspect of life. That’s a lot like what Jehovah’s Witnesses do today, but again, is that a real sin?

Jesus said that those leaders and that nation would pay for all the blood spilt from the killing of the first martyr, Abel, right down to the last. Why? Because they had not yet finished spilling blood. They were about to kill the anointed one of God, his only Son. (Mt 23:33-36; Mt 21:33-41; John 1:14)

Yet the question remains. Why? Why would men who were so strict about keeping God’s law that they tithed even the spices they used, engage in such a flagrant violation of law so as to murder the innocent one? (Mt 23:23)

Obviously, thinking you are the one true religion on earth is no guarantee that you cannot be overthrown; nor is salvation granted because you give scrupulous obedience to those you view as God’s appointed leaders None of that counted for the first century nation of Israel.

What about truth? Does having the truth or being in the truth ensure your salvation? Not according to the apostle Paul:

“. . .But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents ¹⁰ and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved.” (2Th 2:9, 10)

The lawless one uses unrighteous deception to mislead “those who are perishing” as a retribution, not because they do not have the truth. No! It is because they do not love the truth.

No one has all the truth. We have partial knowledge. (1Co 13:12) But what we do need is a love for truth. If you truly love something, you will give up other things for that love. You may have a cherished belief, but if you find out it is false, your love for truth will cause you to abandon the false belief, no matter how comfortable, because you want something more. You want the truth. You love it!

The Jews didn’t love truth, so when the embodiment of truth stood before them, they persecuted him and killed him. (John 14:6) When his disciples then brought them the truth, they persecuted and killed them as well.

How do Jehovah’s Witnesses respond when someone brings them the truth? Do they receive that one openly, or do they refuse to listen, to discuss, to reason? Do they persecute the individual to the extent the law of the land permits, cutting him off from family and friends?

Can Jehovah’s Witnesses honestly say they love truth when they are presented with irrefutable evidence of it and yet continue teaching falsehood under the disclaimer, “We should wait on Jehovah”?[i]

If Jehovah’s Witnesses love truth, then it follows that their work is from God and cannot be overthrown. However, if they are like the Jews of Jesus’ day, they may well be deceiving themselves. Remember that that nation was from God originally, but deviated and lost divine approval. Let us do a brief review of the religion that calls itself “Jehovah’s People” to see if there is a parallel.

The Rise

As a Jehovah’s Witness, born and raised, I believed we were unique among Christian religions. We did not believe in the Trinity, but in one God, whose name is Jehovah.[ii] His son was our King. We rejected the immortality of the human soul and Hellfire as a place of eternal punishment. We rejected idolatry and did not participate in war nor in politics. We alone, in my eyes, were active in declaring the Good News of the Kingdom, telling the world about the prospect they had to live forever in an earthly paradise. For these and other reasons, I believed we had the markers of true Christianity.

Over the past half century, I have discussed and debated the Bible with Hindu, Muslim, Jew, and pretty much any major or minor subdivision of Christendom you’d care to name. Through practice and a good knowledge of Scriptures gained from the publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I debated the Trinity, Hellfire and the immortal soul—the latter being the easiest to win against. As I grew older, I tired of these debates and would usually cut them short by playing my trump card up front. I’d ask the other person if members of their faith fought in wars. The answer was unvaryingly ‘Yes’. To me, that destroyed the underpinnings of their faith. Any religion that was willing to kill their spiritual brethren because their political and religious rulers told them to could not originate from God. Satan was the original manslayer. (John 8:44)

For all of the foregoing reasons, I came to believe that we were the only true religion on earth. I realized that perhaps we had some things wrong. For instance, our ongoing redefinition and final abandonment in the mid-1990s of the “this generation” doctrine. (Mt 23:33, 34) But even that wasn’t enough to cause me to doubt. To me, it wasn’t that we had the truth so much as that we loved it and were willing to change an old understanding when we found out it was wrong. This was the defining mark of Christianity. Besides, like the Jews of the first century, I could see no alternative to our form of worship; no better place to be.

Today, I realize that many of the beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot be supported in Scripture. Nevertheless, I continue to believe that of all the various Christian denominations, theirs is closest to the truth. But does that matter? The Jews of the first century were closer to the truth by miles than any other religion of the day, yet they alone were obliterated off the map, they alone endured God’s wrath. (Luke 12:48)

What we’ve already seen is that love of truth is what counts with God.

True Worship Reestablished

For those who hate Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is de rigueur to find fault with every aspect of the faith. This ignores the fact that while the Devil has been oversowing the field with weeds, Jesus continues to plant wheat. (Mt 13:24) I am not suggesting that Jesus only plants wheat within the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. After all, the field is the world. (Mt 13:38) Nevertheless, in the parable of the wheat and weeds, it is Jesus who sows first.

In 1870, when Charles Taze Russell was only 18 years old, he and his father established a group to study the Bible analytically. It appears they were engaged in an exegetical study of Scripture. The group included two Millerite Adventist ministers, George Stetson and George Storrs. Both were familiar with the failed prophetic chronology of William Miller who used a 2,520-year time period based on Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 4:1-37 to arrive at a time for Christ’s return. He and his followers believed it would be 1843 or 1844. This failure caused considerable disillusionment and loss of faith. Reportedly, young Russell rejected prophetic chronology. Perhaps this was due to the influence of the two Georges. Be that as it may, their study group helped to re-establish true worship by rejecting as unscriptural the widespread doctrines of the Trinity, Hellfire and the immortal soul.

The Enemy Appears

The devil does not rest on his hands, however. He will sow weeds where he can. In 1876, Nelson Barbour, another Millerite Adventist came to the attention of Russell. He was to have a profound influence on the 24-year-old. Nelson convinced Russell that Christ returned invisibly in 1874 and that in two more years, 1878, he would come again to resurrect his anointed ones who had passed away. Russell sold his business and devoted all his time to the ministry. Reversing his previous stand, he now embraced prophetic chronology. This turn of events was due to a man who only a few years later was to publicly deny the value of Christ’s ransom. While this would cause a rift between them, the seed was sown that would cause deviation.

Of course, nothing happened in 1878 but by this time Russell was fully invested in prophetic chronology. Perhaps if his next prediction for the advent of Christ had been 1903, 1910 or some other year, he might have finally got over it, but unfortunately, the year he arrived at coincided with the greatest war ever fought to that time. The year, 1914, surely seemed to be the start of the great tribulation he had predicted. It was easy to believe that it would merge into the Great War of God the Almighty. (Re 16:14)

Russell died in 1916 while the war still raged on, and J. F. Rutherford—despite the dictates of Russell’s will—worked his way into power. In 1918, he predicted—among other things—that the end would come on or before 1925.[iii] He needed something, because peace is the bane of the Adventist, whose faith seems to depend on worsening world conditions. Thus was born Rutherford’s famous “Millions Now Living Will Never Die” campaign in which he predicted that earth’s inhabitants would survive Armageddon which would likely come on or before 1925. When his predictions failed to come true, about 70% of all the Bible Student groups affiliated with the legal corporation known as the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society pulled away.

At that time, there was no “Organization” per se. There was only an international affiliation of independent Bible Student groups subscribing to the publications of the Society. Each decided what to accept and what to reject.

At the beginning, there was no punishment meted out to any who chose not to fully agree with Rutherford’s teachings.

"We would have no quarrel with any one who wants to seek truth through other channels. We would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the Society is the Lord's channel." (April 1, 1920 Watchtower, page 100.)
(Of course, today, this would be grounds for disfellowshipping.)

Those who remained loyal to Rutherford were slowly brought under centralized control and given a name, Jehovah’s Witnesses. Rutherford then introduced a doctrine of dual salvation, wherein the majority of Jehovah’s Witnesses were not to partake of the emblems nor consider themselves children of God. This secondary class were subservient to the anointed class—a clergy/laity distinction came into being.[iv]

At this point we should take note that the Society’s second great prophetic failure came about 50 years after the first.

Then, in the late 1960s, a book was released titled, Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God. In it, the seed was sown for the belief that the return of Christ would likely occur in or around 1975. This resulted in rapid growth in the ranks of JWs up to 1976 when the average number of publishers reached 2,138,537. After that, came a few years of decline, but there was no repeat of the huge falling-away that occurred from 1925 to 1929.

A Pattern Emerges

There seems to be a 50-year cycle evident from these failed predictions.

1874-78 – Nelson and Russell proclaim a two-year advent and the start of the first resurrection.

1925 – Rutherford expects the resurrection of the ancient worthies and the start of Armageddon

1975 – The Society predicts the likelihood that the millennial reign of Christ will start.

Why does this seem to happen every 50 years or so? Possibly because enough time has to elapse for those who were disillusioned in the prior failure to die off, or for their numbers to dwindle to the point that their warning voices are ignored. Remember, Adventism is fueled by the belief the end is just around the corner. A true Christian knows the end could come at any time. An Adventist Christian believes it will come in his lifetime, likely within the decade.

Still, believing that an event is very close is different from making a public declaration that it will come in a particular year. Once you’ve done that, you can’t move the goal posts without looking the fool.

So why do it? Why do obviously intelligent men make predictions that go against the Bible’s clearly stated injunction that we cannot know the day or hour?[v] Why risk it?

The Fundamental Question of Rulership

How did Satan seduce the first humans away from an idyllic relationship with God? He sold them on the idea of self-rule—that they could be like God.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Ge 3:5 KJV)

When a plan works, Satan doesn’t abandon it, and this one has continued to work down through the ages. When you look at organized religion today, what do you see? Don’t confine yourself to Christian religions. Look at them all. What do you see? Men governing men in the name of God.

Make no mistake: All organized religion is a form of human rulership.

Perhaps this is why atheism is on the rise. It isn’t that men have found reasons in science to doubt the existence of God. If anything, scientific discoveries make it even harder than before to doubt God’s existence. No, the vehemence of atheists denying God’s existence has little to do with God and everything to do with men.

There was a debate at Biola University held on April 4, 2009 between the university’s Professor William Lane Craig (a Christian) and Christopher Hitchens (a reknown atheist) on the question: “Does God Exist?” They quickly got off the main topic and began debating religion when in a moment of splendid honesty, Mr. Hitchens released this little gem:

"...we're talking about an authority which would give other humans the right to tell me what to do in the name of God." (See video at the 1:24 minute mark)

When Jehovah established the nation of Israel, each man did what was right in his own eyes. (Judges 21:25) In other words, there were no leaders telling them how to live their lives. This is divine rulership. God tells each one what to do. No men are involved in the chain of command above other men.

When Christianity was established, one link, the Christ, was added to the chain of command. What 1 Corinthians 11:3 describes is a family arrangement not a man-made governmental hierarchy. The latter is from Satan.

The Bible condemns the rulership of men. It is allowed, tolerated for a time, but it is not God’s way and will be abolished. (Ec 8:9; Je 10:23; Ro 13:1-7; Da 2:44) This would include religious rulership, often the most stringent and controlling rulership of all. When men presume to speak for God and tell other men how to live their lives, demanding of these ones unquestioning obedience, then they are stepping on hallowed ground, territory that belongs only to the Almighty. The Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day were such men and they used their authority to get the people to murder the Holy One of God. (Acts 2:36)

When human leaders feel they are losing their hold over their people, they often use fear as a tactic.

Is History about to Be Repeated?

There is reason to believe that the 50-year cycle of failed advent predictions is about to be repeated, though not in the same way as before.

In 1925, Rutherford did not have a tight grip on the various Bible Student groups. Additionally, all the publications were authored by him and carried his name. The predictions were therefore very much seen as the work of one man. Additionally, Rutherford went too far—for instance, he purchased a 10-bedroom Mansion in San Diego to house the resurrected Patriarchs and King David. So the breakaway following the 1925 debacle was more about rejecting the man than rejecting the tenets of the faith. Bible Students continued to be bible students and worship as before, but without the teachings of Rutherford to go by.

Things were different in the 1970s. By then all the loyal Bible Student groups were centralized into a single Organization. Also, there was no central figure equivalent to Rutherford. Knorr was the president, but the publications were written anonymously, and were then thought to be the output of all the anointed on earth. Creature worship—such as experienced under Rutherford and Russell—was viewed as unchristian.[vi] To the average Jehovah’s Witness, ours was the only game in town, so 1975 was passed off as a well-intentioned miscalculation, but not something that would cause us to question the validity of the Organization as God’s chosen people. Essentially, most accepted that we’d made a mistake and it was time to move on. Besides, we still believed the end was just around the corner, undoubtedly before the end of the 20^th century, because the generation of 1914 was getting older.

Things are very different now. This isn’t the leadership I grew up with.

JW.Org—The New Organization

When the turn of the century, and indeed, the millennium, came and went, Witness fervor began to diminish. We no longer had the “generation” calculation. We lost our anchor.

Many believed the end was now a long way off. Despite all the talk about serving God out of love, Witnesses are motivated by the belief that the end is very near and only by remaining inside the organization and working hard on its behalf can salvation be hoped for. Fear of losing out is a major motivating factor. The power and authority of the Governing Body is based on this fear. That power was now dwindling. Something had to be done. Something was done.

First, they started by resurrecting the generation doctrine, dressed up in the new clothes of two overlapping generations. Then they laid claim to even greater authority, appointing themselves in Christ’s name as his Faithful and Discreet Slave. (Mt 25:45-47) Next, they began to put their teachings as that slave on a par with God’s inspired word.

I remember, quite clearly, sitting in the stadium of the 2012 District Convention with a heavy heart while listening to the talk “Avoid Testing Jehovah in Your Heart”, where we were told that to doubt the teachings of the Governing Body was equivalent to putting Jehovah to the test.

This theme continues to be taught. Take, for instance, this latest article from the September 2016 Watchtower – Study Edition. The title is: “What is ‘the word of God’ that Hebrews 4:12 says ‘is alive and exerts power’?”

A careful read of the article shows that the Organization considers Hebrews 4:12 to apply not only to the Bible, but to their publications as well. (Bracketed comments added to clarify the real message.)

“The context shows that the apostle Paul was referring to the message, or expression of God’s purpose, such as we find in the Bible.” [“such as” indicates a non-exclusive source]

“Hebrews 4:12 is often cited in our publications to show that the Bible has power to change lives, and it is perfectly proper to make that application. However, it is helpful to view Hebrews 4:12 in its broad context. [“However”, “broad context” are used to indicate that while it can refer to the Bible, there are other applications to consider.]

“…we have happily cooperated with and continue to cooperate with God’s revealed purpose.” [One cannot cooperate with a purpose. That is nonsensical. One cooperates with another. Here, the implication is that God is revealing his purpose not through the Bible, but through his organization and the “word of God” exercises power in our lives as we cooperate with the Organization as it reveals God’s purpose to us.]

With the creation of JW.org, the logo has become the identifying mark of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The broadcasts focus all our attention on the central governing authority. The leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses has never been as powerful as it is now.

What will they do with all this power?

The Cycle Repeats?

Seven years before the failed 1925 prediction, Rutherford began his millions-will-never-die campaign. The fervor of 1975 began in 1967. Here we are nine years shy of 2025. Is anything significant about that year?

The leadership will not likely fixate on a year again. However, they don’t really need to.

Recently, Kenneth Flodin, a Helper to the Teaching Committee, gave a video presentation on JW.org in which he rebuked those using the latest generation doctrine to calculate when the end would come. He came up with a year 2040 which he discounted because “there’s nothing, nothing, in Jesus’ prophecy that suggests those in the second group alive at the time of the end would all be old, decrepit and close to death.” In other words, there is no way it could be as late as 2040.

Now consider that David Splane in the September Broadcast on tv.jw.org used the members of the Governing Body to exemplify the second group of anointed who are part of “this generation”. (Mt 24:34)

Name	Year Born	Current Age in 2016
Samuel Herd	1935	81
Gerrit Losch	1941	75
David Splane	1944	72
Stephen Lett	1949	67
Anthony Morris III	1950	66
Geoffrey Jackson	1955	61
Mark Sanderson	1965	51
	Average Age:	68

By 2025, the average age of the Governing Body will be 77. Now remember, this group will not be “old, decrepit, and close to death” at the time of the end.

Something Worse than 1925 or 1975

When Rutherford said the end would come in 1925, it didn’t require his listeners to do anything specific. When the Society began to talk about 1975, again, no specific demands were made of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Sure, many sold homes, took early retirement, moved to where the need was great, but this they did based on their own conclusions and motivated by encouragement from the publications, but no specific commandments were issued from leadership. No one was saying “You have to do X and Y, or you will not be saved.”

The Governing Body have elevated their directives to the level of God’s Word. Now they have the power to make demands of Jehovah’s Witnesses and apparently that is precisely what they plan to do:

“At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” (w13 11/15 p. 20 par. 17)

The Governing Body is telling its flock to be prepared to unquestioningly obey “life-saving direction” that may very well seem impractical and strategically unsound. “Listen, Obey, and be blessed.”

We had an inkling of what the direction might include at this year’s Regional Convention.

On the last day, we saw a video about fear of man. There we learned that the message of the good news will change to one of judgment and if we are afraid to participate, we’ll miss out on life. The idea is that we will be told by the Governing Body that we have to pronounce a hard message of condemnation, like massive hailstones falling from heaven. Unlike 1925 or 1975 where you could choose to believe the prediction or not, this time action and commitment will be required. There will be no backing down from this one. No way to shift the blame to the flock.

It Is Unlikely that They Would Do This!

Perhaps you feel, being a reasonable human being, that there is no way they would stick their neck out like this. Yet that is exactly what they have done in the past. Russell and Barbour in 1878; Russell again in 1914, though the failure was obscured by the war. Then there was Rutherford in 1925, and then Knorr and Franz in 1975. Why would intelligent men risk so much based on speculation? I do not know, though I do believe that pride has a lot to do with it. Pride, once unleashed, is like a big dog dragging its hapless master to and fro. (Pr 16:18)

The Governing Body have started down a path driven by pride, inventing a bogus interpretation of the generation, declaring themselves the appointed slave of Christ, foretelling that life-saving instruction will come only through them and that “the word of God” is his purpose revealed through them. Now they tell us that they will be commanding us to embark on a new mission, a proclamation of judgment before the nations. They have already gone too far down this road. Only humility can pull them back from the brink, but humility and pride are mutually exclusive, like oil and water. Where one enters, the other is displaced. Add to this the fact that Witnesses are desperate for the end. They are so eager for it that they’ll believe almost anything the Governing Body says if couched in the proper terms.

A Moment of Sane Reflection

It is easy to get caught up in the fervor, perhaps reasoning that this idea of a condemnatory judgment message is what Jehovah wants us to do.

If you begin to feel that way, stop and consider the facts.

Would our loving Father use as his prophet an organization that for the last 150 years has an unbroken record of failed predictions? Look at every prophet he has ever used in Scripture. Was even one of them a false prophet all his life, before finally getting it right?

This judgment message is based on an antitypical prophetic application not made by the Scriptures themselves. The Governing Body has disavowed such things. Can we trust someone who breaks their own rules? (w84 3/15 pp. 18-19 pars. 16-17; w15 3/15 p. 17)

Changing the message of the Good News, even under the authority of the Apostles or an angel from heaven will result in a curse from God. (Galatians 1:8)

A real judgment message just before the end would indicate the end is very near which contradicts Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:42, 44.

A Warning, not a Prediction

In anticipating these developments, I’m not engaging in a prediction of my own. In fact, I hope I’m wrong. Perhaps I’m reading the signposts incorrectly. I certainly do not wish this on my brothers and sisters. Nevertheless, the current trend is strong, and it would be unconscionable to anticipate the possibility and not give warning.

__________________________________

[i] What this oft-repeated phrase really means is, ‘We should wait on the Governing Body to change things, if and when they choose to.’

[ii] ‘Jehovah’ is a translation introduced by William Tyndale in his Bible translation. We also recognized that other names, like the transliteration ‘Yave’ or ‘Yahweh’, were legitimate alternatives.

[iii] “Millions Now Living Will Never Die”

[iv] For a full review of Rutherford’s dual salvation doctrine, see “Going Beyond What Is Written”.

[v] “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming....On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.” (Mt 24:42, 44)
“So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.” (Ac 1:6, 7)

[vi] W68 5/15 p. 309;

Archived Comments

We have moved to the Disqus commenting system. To post a new comment, go to the bottom of this page.

Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-06-20 12:02:19
Johnsc11: It appears that this excellent article cautioning EVERYONE not to speculate on dates that do not have clear biblical backing and a clear application has passed over your head. Your insistence on dates and events that have some personal importance to you, has little meaning on a forum visited by serious bible students and has filled up the comments section with a lot of discord. I am not attempting to stifle your personal expressions, but from all that has been seen and said in history, wisdom would teach you not to insist on dates that are "appear" to be supported by scriptures that are unclear and require a lot of speculation. The truth is simple to understand, and simple to explain. If you continue in this course of insisting on things not clearly supported by scripture, you will only serve to bring your foot closer to your mouth as many good servants of God have done in the past for their lack of being discreet.

I'm at work right now, so I'll just mention a simple truth: Christ cannot be reigning as king of God's kingdom already while there are still anointed on earth. He does not rule without them. The scriptures show they will be received in heaven all "together." So, there aren't some anointed who rule 1000 years, and some that rule 900. If you need scriptures to support that simple truth that is so obvious when considering the first resurrection, then it is evidence you know little of the scriptures and your claim to understand all these prophecies concerning days and years would be a false claim. I would find it hard to believe someone could understand complicated prophecies if he hasn't yet come to understand the simple truths that those prophecies have been amplified upon. As well, Christ's rule is over the earth and the start of his rulership will result in him dashing to pieces the kings of the earth with his iron scepter and abyssing Satan. That has not yet occured, yet another proof he is not reigning as king. He also said no one would know the day or the hour. Somehow there seems to be no shortage of people who feel they know the day and the hour, proving our Lord and Christ wrong...NOT!

But, if you want to talk about Christ and his power, although he is not yet king of God's kingdom, he is head of the congregation, our high priest and has authority over all God's family, heavenly and earthly. If you cannot perceive that, then just the simplest part of the sacred secret has been hidden from you and I feel sorry indeed that you cannot see what is oh so clear.

Much love,

Comment by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 12:45:55
I don't know where you get the information from but CT Russell didn't believe 1878 was the end. The length of the Jewish Age from the death of Jacob to Isarel being cast off as a favored nation was 1845 years. Russell believe in parallels and counted 1845 years from when the were cast off so 33 AD + 1845 Years = 1878 AD. So in 33 AD Jesus Proclaimed "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew 23:38). This is the beginning of the return of favor to Israel starting 1845 years after their being cast off. These two period are known as "Israels Double". Now beginning with the Zionist movement in 1878 their favor was being restored. This began with the Petah Tikvah. This was the beginning of the restoration of Israel as shown the bible. This date is correct. Also Nebuchadnezzar took the land for 70 years and it was desolate since 586-587BC. So add 70 to 1878 and you get 1948. When Israel was fully restored as a nation. Russell also noticed that 3.5 years after Jesus' Baptism (First Advent) that he came to present himself as their King to Israel. He was rejected. Well 3.5 years after his second Advent (Fall 1874) brings up to 1878 which shows Israel would be brought into favor again and he he would become King in heaven and assume his role and bring Israel back into favor before the millennium!!

"The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239

This date (1878) was never taught by Russell as a date for the return and rapture. He believed that during this year this is when the resurrection of the sleeping saints to heaven occurred based on the parallel that the saints were raised after Jesus was Resurrected. Now in the Bible Student Monthly the title of the article "End of the World in 1914: not the view of Pastor Russell nor the I.B.S.A" he stated it was not to end in 1914. At the beginning of 1914 Russell stated that he didn't believe that the end of the world would be in 1914. But the Bible Students made a card that counted down the days until the fall of 1914. Pastor Russell strongly advised against this and asked to them remember that they don't consecrate to a date. They did it anyway and led to a great disappointment.

I notice when I read JWs views on Russell I get comments like "When 1874 failed he moved it to 1914". Russell never changed the dates. Rutherford made that switch. So just research it.

Also Russell didn't cover up the false 1914 with the war but had a wrong expectation which he realized before 1914 began. The fact that he expected 1914 to be correct was amazing. Ever since this war the world has not been the same. There are no more religion-state rulers anymore. The world is going more and more down hill. He had a wrong expectation. the JWs believe the 2,520 years starts with 607BC. This is correct. This is part do the 4 years do question from 610-607 BC of Nebuchadnezzar. This parallels the war of 1914-1918. They didn't destroy the city until 586-587BC. This is where the JWs have it wrong. 607 BC is correct but not for the destruction of Jerusalem.
- Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 13:46:27
  My apologies. It wasn't the rapture, but that the saints who had died were to be resurrected. (Herald of the Morning July 1878 p. 5) The overriding point is that trying to work out things using prophetic chronology has misled the flock of God and led to much disillusionment.
  - Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 13:57:54
    I understand. We still believe this today. The bible shows they will be resurrected during his parousia. And if it started in 1878 which is in the parousia of 1874 then it's on schedule. We get the date 1874 from many many different lines including the Jubilee cycles, the dates from the time of Daniel in Daniel 12. It's not arbitrary. Also, if we take the days listed in Noah's account and place them on a time line as a year for a day then you get 1874, 1914, 1948 and many other significant dates. It's all points that 1874 is correct.
    
    Other than that it's a great article.
    - Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 14:09:25
      My belief is that the presence of Christ has yet to begin.
      - Reply by Keaton on 2016-06-19 16:54:09
        I believe it happened in 1799... I mean 1874, No I mean 1878, ah yes I see 1915 - 1 = 1914. Ah ha I have the truth :)
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:08:24
        The dates are independent. 1799, 1829 and 1874 are cased in the days of Daniel 12: 1,260, 1290 and 1335 days. They are not changes due to false errors.
        
        And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12 “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!
- Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 14:08:09
  >>I notice when I read JWs views on Russell I get comments like “When 1874 failed he moved it to 1914”. Russell never changed the dates. Rutherford made that switch. So just research it.
  
  I know and have stated on this site the Rutherford made the change. The date of 1874 as the start of Christ's invisible presence is every bit as wrong as 1914 is.
  
  I don't see the Biblical relevance, but there are still religion-state rulers. Iran, for instance. As for the world going more and more downhill, that is a common belief among Jehovah's Witnesses, but the BIble doesn't call for that to happen, and in fact, it is not. Just compare 1914-1963 with 1964-2013.
  - Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 14:19:56
    Incorrect. There are no more theocracies. Religion in Iran is Muslim. It is not united by Church state ties. . They are not united with any religion that co tells seperated from the date. For example How Roman Papacy was united and controlled the states through religion. The difference is that the the governments are not theocrats in Iran. Big difference. We do not see church state unions since 1914-1918.
    
    Also yes the world is going down. Look at morals and wars and financial collapses. More and more civil unrests worse than anything we've seen. The world is headed for anarchy. Much worse than 1914-1963. And the restoration is Israel in preparation for the millennium. If you think the world will be at its peak peace and unity before God tears down the systems (Dan 2:44) then there are many things that need to be researched.
    - Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 15:05:43
      Oh, I see. You're making a distinction between Christian religion and other religions. I still don't see the significance because the Bible doesn't talk about the end of states controlled by religion as significant. And of course, 1914 has no prophetic significance at all.
      
      As for worse than anything we've seen before. Are you honestly saying you'd prefer to live during the great depression or during the first and second world wars or the Spanish Influenza. Would you call a world where child abuse was at least as rampant as it is now, but abusers were protected? Would you prefer a world where discrimination was enforced by law? Would you prefer a world were international human rights wasn't even a thing, let alone a law code? Russia, under Stalin? The States during McCarthyism. Sure the world is no picnic now, but worse than before. I don't see it. Besides, where in the Bible is such a prediction made?
      - Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 15:49:01
        You just disproved your own point. Since 1914 we've had the holocaust, 2 world wars, rise of communism Governments collapse and anarchy and Spanish influence, Great Depression. Since 1914. Thanks for that. And and no prediction with the year 1914 is directly stated in the bible. Was the 70 weeks directly stated by date? My point exactly.
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 17:59:44
        >>Was the 70 weeks directly stated by date?
        
        It was given a specific event to mark the start, and another to mark its end. It was also given a single fulfillment. Thus it could be used to accurately calculate the arrival of the Messiah.
        
        The seven times was also given a single fulfillment which occurred in Daniel's time. The specific event marking its start was the madness of the king and the event marking its end was his return to sanity. There was no antitypical fulfillment applied in Scripture. 1914 has nothing to do with it.
        
        A number of bad things happened after 1914. A number of bad things also happened after 1812. A number of bad things also happened after 1337. However, none of these years was flagged in Scripture as prophetically significant. Since 1950, world conditions on most fronts have improved over the previous 50 years. This improvement also has no scriptural significance.
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:05:32
        Still incorrect. Why would God give us chronology of they aren't meant to me know. For example the days 1,260, 1.290 and 1335 days of Daniel. Yes bad thing ha happened after 1812. But they are processing from bad to worse. They are not far I between ambit are getting worse as time goes on.
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:09:23
        And you were incorrect. Many don't know if the 70 weeks started in Nehemiah's day or Ezra's.we know today. But back then they didn't.
        Reply by Menrov on 2016-06-20 07:01:19
        Just to consider: how were the times before 1914, i.e period between year 1 and 1914? Average life span? Human rights? Women rights? Slavery? Colonization? Famines? Pestilences? Dictatorship? Crusades? Massive shipwrecks? Children protection? Criminal law and punishments? Religious freedom? Wars? Medical treatments and knowledge? Psychiatric treatments?
        In my view, 1914 cannot be used as a turning point in history. Many countries did not participate and fights were mostly in Europe. Only people living in this period might say that 1914 was a turning point. I am sure that for INCA empire, the coming of the Spaniards was a turning point or key event in world their history. I do not believe a war in itself is a turning point. For true Christians (followers of Christ), what did 1914 bring or do to them? Tribulation? There is more religious freedom (globally) and more access to Gods word than ever before. Are governments gone? No, they are all there and just as strong as before, albeit the structure of these governments have changed in many cases. Gamblers always see a sign that indicates a change in their luck.Jesus never says He would reign or return invisibly. What's the point to reign or return invisibly? If nobody can see or notice, why bother?
        
        Big events that in my view can be considered turning points or key events in world history, resulting in real change::
        - navigation device i.e. compass (200 BC)
        - discovery of Penicillin (1928)
        - discovery of Pasteurization (1864)
        - book print (1455 or even earlier)
        - invention of Electricity (1819)
        - invention of the phone (1854)
        - Invention of steam engine (1698)
        - Gunpowder (9th century)
        - Discovery of sound waves (1500)
        - Invention of computers (1822)
        - Birth of Islam (7th century)
        - Birth of Catholic church (let's say around 300 AD)
        - Moving pictures (1890)
        
        The bible often gives some indication of duration of events or situations. But the start of events are often described by other events. In my view, it is because God or Jesus can stop an event that they themselves control but due to the free will of people, I believe they cannot always provide a hard date to a start of an event.
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 07:17:02
        Yes they are getting worse your fighting your own point. We believe that the end days started in 1799. Now if you want to believe that the world is better because of some discoveries then so be it. But being in america it's sometimes harder to experience these things. I'm sure with the Islamization of many European countries as well as the collapse of the economies in that country they would differ. And why do you think that because a few discoveries negates the evil that is progressing. You have a bias against JWs therefore you think the date is incorrect. You think that 607 has no significance becadue of the JW interpretation that they have. Well your incorrect. Plus you believe that we aren't in the parousia. Did not Daniel say that in the days of his presence there would be an increase in knowledge? Look 100 years ago and look at today. So thank you for proving that point.
        The bible teaches that in the time of the end that world will be peaceful. Then destruction will come upon us. So believe what you want I still believe you're wrong.
        Reply by john971 on 2016-06-20 07:37:27
        Who is the "we" when you write we believe? Many here don't have a bias against JWs, only a love of truth that is based in Scripture. Where is the scriptural backing for all the failed dates and speculations on dates that you site? What did Jesus tell the disciples about "the day and the hour"? That was a huge point made by Meleti in his article. I won't assume that you are a WT apologist. The WT has admitted that they have no special insight or direct line to God or infallibility through the holy spirit. They are just men like all of us who go and vote on doctrine. Some vote one way, and the other. They call that progressive truth?
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:37:39
        You state "failed dates". Can you prove the last days didn't start in 1799 with the over throwing of the papal control over the nations? Can you disprove the parousia starting in 1874? Can you disprove 1878 the saints weren't resurrected to heaven? How can you say they failed if we believe that are not outwardly visible? 1914 had went expectations but to point to something that massive happened. We can to conclude something in advance. The world has its goods and bass but I believe it will get worse and then we'll have some fammsafety and peace then distruction. When I say we I mean Bible Students. I don't believe that people have a ful understand of what we believe. We don't believe in all that new light and old light the JWs teach. They are a cult.
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:54:58
        Johnsc11, we have asked you several times now to provide proof for your assertions, yet you have failed to do so. You simply restate your opinions. If you consult the FAQ page on this site, under "Commenting Guidelines" you'll see that this is not acceptable. We are serious Bible students here and need proof to back up assertions. Asking us to disprove unsubstantiated assertions, to prove a negative as it were, is simply not good form. Please provide the proof if you would like to continue to participate.
        Reply by john971 on 2016-06-20 10:34:44
        That's great brother. I'm glad that we are students of the Bible. Based strictly on the Bible, no where there does it state anything about an invisible coming of Christ in 1878 or 1914 as you assert. Christ actually warned his disciples about this sort of speculative reasoning.
        
        Matthew 24:23-28. To me, that's as clear as day. The words of Christ himself forewarning Christians against this sort of thinking and tying our faith to dates and the men who set them. I don't read anything in those verses about Christ coming invisibly, or coming twice or three times.
        
        John
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 07:44:47
        Actually, Johnsc11, Menrov didn't prove your point. You seem to have misread what he said.
        
        Listen, we respect everyone's right to hold an opinion of their own, even if it differs from ours. However, if you going to make statements like the last days started in 1799, we would ask that you provide scriptural proof. As a Christian, I'm sure you wouldn't want us to believe in something unless it could be backed from Scripture.
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:03:50
        Daniel 12. The 1260 days 1290 days and 1335 days. Please ask yourself why God gave us these days if every date that pops up is incorrect in your view. I'll wait.
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:24:57
        Where did you get the idea that every date that pops up is incorrect? First of all, dates don't 'pop up'. They are deduced from facts. You've given us no facts. You do understand that the 1260, 1290, and 1335 are not dates, but time periods. They do have a significance, but you cannot expect me to accept how you apply them based on your opinion, nor can you expect others to accept your opinion just because no one has yet offered an alternative.
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 07:57:02
        >>Did not Daniel say that in the days of his presence there would be an increase in knowledge?
        
        No, Daniel did not say that. What he said was, or rather, what was said to him was:
        
        "But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." (Daniel 12:4)
        
        No mention made of Christ's presence.
        
        Question: When was "the time of the end"? When were the last days? According to Peter, they occurred at Pentecost. See Acts 2:14-21. Was that also when knowledge increased? According to Jesus, the sacred secret was revealed to his disciples. (Mark 4:11)
        
        Was Daniel referring to the end of the Jewish system of things, the end of the old covenant? It would appear so.
    - Reply by dionys on 2016-06-19 17:21:24
      "If you think the world will be at its peak peace and unity before God tears down the systems (Dan 2:44) then there are many things that need to be researched."
      
      We do well to consider what the Adversary wants of this world - to unite it against God, to curse God and his sovereignty, to have a One World Government in opposition to the Almighty.
      
      1 Thess 5:2,3 regarding the Day of the Lord says "For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."
      
      Although the nations mention and are working towards "peace and security" in a New World Order the proclamation and establishment of "peace and security" hasn't been announced yet. Therefore the Day of the Lord is NOT upon us yet.
      
      The nations are working towards a satanic NWO, they may very well establish "peace and security" when they accomplish this (as they did the League of Nations, United Nations...) but so they think, until "instant destruction" comes upon them.
      - Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 18:04:06
        I don't believe that Paul was giving us a prophecy concerning some special type of peace and security proclamation. After all, if he were, then Matthew 24:44 would lose its meaning and Jesus would be wrong. Paul was speaking about the need to keep awake even during time when it might seem unnecessary.
      - Reply by Menrov on 2016-06-20 07:22:14
        I often read that people view governments (nations) as a tool that Satan uses. But I believe this is a wrong view. Romans 13:1 says "....For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God"
        And in Rom. 13:4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. It is God’s servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer.
        So, governments are not Satan's servant but God's servant. And yes, I can see that many of these governments do not comply with God's view but that is between God and these governments. To state that all that these governments do are the works of Satan is therefore not correct. 1 Tim. 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people, 2 even for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior,
        
        God would never want us to pray for servants of Satan.
        Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:04:34
        Then why wood he destroy the as per Dan 2:44 is they are his. Are you saying God put Hitler and dictators in power and these are by his will. Think about it.
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:27:52
        Johnsc11, I'm concerned by the tone this discussion is taking. We welcome alternative views as long as the tone does not become argumentative. You raise a good point. But let me hand it back to you. Do you agree that Jehovah not only allowed King Saul to rule, but appointed him directly. Yet in two years he went bad. How would you explain that if you feel that Satan is the one who appoints the rulers?
  - Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:02:06
    So you believe that 1874 is incorrect? Please prove it. I want the refutation of the jubilee cycles as well the refutation that the days of Daniel 12 didn't start in 539 BC. Also please refute the 1845 parallel and not just some biased review of what you think.
    - Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:20:24
      It doesn't work that way, Johnsc11. You're asking us to prove a negative. It would be like me asking you to prove that Jesus' presence didn't begin in 1975. You cannot ask us to assume your unsubstantiated assertions are true and then disprove them. The way this works is you provide the proof for your assertions, and then we'll either accept your proof or show you where we believe you're wrong.
      - Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:47:29
        And we can prove it didn't happen becasuse all the JWs did was add another Jubilee cycle to the 1925 failed date for the ancient worthies return . And that they are wrong about 607 because in the chronology in Kings and Jugdes they didn't take into account Ascension dates of the kings. And there's not evidence that Jerusalem fell in 607. It's 587. So proving that 1975 isn't the correct date is easy. Not impossible.
        
        Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:59:15
        Ah, but Johnsc11, you have not proved that 1975 is not the date of the presence of Christ. I didn't say anything about 607 or 587, so whether those dates are valid or not is immaterial. You see, I've provided no proof for 1975. I've just made an assertion like you did for 1874. So prove my assertion wrong? Since an invisible Christ cannot, by definition, be seen, who's to say I'm wrong?

Comment by john971 on 2016-06-19 15:34:18
I enjoyed reading your article Meleti as usual. I faded and left JWs 20 yrs ago because of my own perception of the lack of real love there, and not any doctrines at that time. Where was this spiritual paradise they spoke about? Where was the truth, or love of the truth or real love for one another?

Organized religion is just another lever for men to dominate other men, and to exercise control, and is not of the Lord or scripture. I want to try to help my family see the light now, but I have to tread carefully.

I was a very young person back in 1975, I remember studying the old Babylon the Great has Fallen book and the separate question book and I remember all the confusion it created back then.. All the publications of that time..the Ezekiel book, Gods Kingdom of a Thousand Years has Approached etc. This was their truth. The various predictions with all the types and antitypes use, were of men and they came to nothing.

I believe that the Lords coming is in the future. In studying Matthew 24, with regard to the "sign", the NWT uses the term "pangs of distress" for the original Greek word literally meaning "birth pangs" or travails of birth in verse 8.

The same Greek word is used in the book of Revelation 12:2, regarding the "woman" giving birth and having birth pains..ie.the birth of the kingdom of God.

To verify, I looked up the verses in their own Kingdom Interlinear translation. The same Greek word is used in each scripture, yet they choose to translate it differently. Why?

I thought to myself, Matthew 24:8 and Revelation 12:2 are talking about the same thing. The establishment of the Kingdom of God. But, don't the birth pains occur before and leading up to a birth, and not afterwards to indicate that the birth has already happened??

Wouldn't this indicate that the establishment of the Kingdom is in the future. Seems plausible to me.

John
- Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 18:05:58
  Interesting how they change the translation of the same term in different verses to better support their theology. Thanks, John971. It underscores the need to cross check all our NWT references to ensure we're not being subtly misled to a wrong train of thought.
  - Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:33:46
    The JWs think because they have the name Jehovah in the Bible it makes it correct. But that's misleading. The Restoration Bible, Divine Name KJV, ASV, and the RVIC, bible all use the name. Theirs hides the biggest thing. The Ransom for all.

Comment by Keaton on 2016-06-19 16:16:16
Thanks for a great write up, things are getting from Def-Con 5 to 1975, I have no idea if that makes sense, but whatever, the organization is going far to the end to hold its grasp with the rank and file, this is beginning to sound like a new 1914, 1925, or 1975 and in a way near the end of 1990's to 2000 where there was a but of fear during that 10 year span.

The Organization is Wrong and let's call it what it is it is evil, no doubt, I know people are ( not all will say hey that is judging well my friends look at the new testament it is filled with judging and Matthew 7:1-6 talks about hypocritical judging, first of all I ain't telling people to follow me, I ain't telling People my Bible is the best in mankind no really the 2014 yearbook says that in the opening letter from the Magnificent Seven GB Dudes. Also in a Talk outline Leaked or Accidently Released Called on Rescue From World Distress, they say this Nugget of Falsehood.

Deliverance will depend on obedience to instructions from God’s Word and organization (w12 4/15 26 ˚16)

Yup they Said that, pure nonsense, and oh yeah they mention This Jehovah [ again that is wrong as we all know, heck the governing body said last year on thrle Jw Broadcast] at least 17 times, Jesus only Once and Organization Once.
Yup enough said.

I could go on and on, and I might later,but I leave this final few thoughts for this post, as I am going through the NWT New Testament and making a Journal of all its error's no none of that ending of mark and john Chapter 8 [ which we all know there is no support] I am making a journal of all its addition's and of course no brackets or footnotes, i am nearly finished and there is a lot, I mean a lot.

But everyone needs to [ if they so choose ] take a good look at Romans NWT Romans 13:1 -7 again in the NWT and also get your 1984 reference bible and other translations and interlinears and see how the NWT changed there Bible to fit there Doctrines. And also take a closely look at NWT the Famous Hebrew 11:1 on Faith the NWT totally change it very sly but you will see.

Love to all

May our Father Yahweh and his Son Yahshua give you all strength.

Comment by Search-truth on 2016-06-19 18:47:15
Thank you Meleti, for another wonderful article.
I'm not sure if anyone remembers the autumn of 2006. We had a campaign distributing tracts the fall or destruction of Babylon the Great? I don't exactly remember the title of that tract but a lot of people thought something was brewing, thinking the Org had an inside scoop on events were about to soon happen with religion. I had no Idea why they published it, because in my opinion there was no sign or indication that religion was under fire at all. I watched the news, searched the web and found nothing to warrant the message. So I thought to myself who am I to question the organization, considering they were Gods direct channel & were directed by his holy spirit? Well friends as you know here we are 10 years later and nothing has happened. I look back at that time and realize that really it was a bogus warning campaign. Now I know that if they pull something like that again, I wont tricked or coerced by their foolish propaganda. As a matter of fact, J.W org doesn't even know it, but they too fall under the classification of Babylon the Great because they have too have mislead people. Now, what the Org is going to demand from their members with no questions asked is anyone's guess.
In this years Regional convention they prepared their members to remain loyal to the organization, banking that what ever they bring down the pipe in the next few months everyone will adhere too.
I guess we have to stayed tuned keeping in mind the annual meeting is fast approaching.

Comment by lazarus on 2016-06-21 03:57:47
Love the whole article, Meleti. Was doing research on the man of lawlessness. And your article came up. I liked your scripture in judges 21:25 and application, and your sub-heading , Something worse than 1925 or 1975. You quote w13 11/15 , yes whenever brothers speculate about 'the conclusion of the system of things' this is the go to reference now, which makes me feel uncomfortable, my thoughts go to a Jim Jones tragedy which I saw as a kid, its mind boggling that intelligent people can fall prey to mens delusions, which I have to humbly admit I did for a long time, also with the change in the goodnews message to one of 'we told you so' judgement message.

The whole chapter of Ezekial 13 is a interesting read. I like this description of Ezekial 13 it reminds me of your article vrs 3 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the stupid prophets, who follow their own spirit, when they have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, your prophets have become like foxes among the ruins. 5 You will not go to the broken places in the stone walls to rebuild them for the house of Israel, so that Israel may keep standing in the battle in the day of Jehovah.” 6 “They have seen false visions and foretold a lie, those who are saying, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when Jehovah himself has not sent them, and they have waited for their word to come true. 7 Is it not a false vision that you have seen and a lie that you have foretold when you say, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when I have not said anything?”’ 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “‘Because you have spoken what is false and your visions are a lie, I am against you,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah
- Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-21 07:54:30
  Wow! Thanks Lazarus. What a powerful Scripture that is. The Organization loves to go to Ezequiel and apply may of its prophecies to our day. I'm sure they'd never think to apply that one to us, but how accurately it fits.

Comment by tyhik on 2016-06-22 07:02:29
Good article as usual. Big thanks. A few thoughts.

I find the discussion of Jesus time Jews lacking the love of the truth as the main reason of them being rejected revealing. That indeed clarifies things. We must really love truth and hate the opposite. Each one starting from himself.

"I remember, quite clearly, sitting in the stadium of the 2013 District Convention ..."
The link that follows leads to the article from 2012. Not that it matters, but ...

Regarding obeying to whatever "lifesaving" instructions may come, I have been very suspicious about that push all the time. Some half year back I took it up with an elder, asking something like: "What if those instructions go against Bible?". The elder stared back at me a few seconds with a look that it was a completely impossible situation and then answered: "Of course then you don't follow. But that is purely academic." I was happy with the answer because back then I did not have any example where WT teachings went clearly against the Bible. We are commanded to preach good news. So it would be interesting to see whether the next "impractical but lifesaving direction" will indeed be the switch to preaching condemnation.
- Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-22 08:00:46
  Hi tyhik,
  
  Thanks for pointing out the error. I've changed the year to 2012. That puts the convention before the big annual meeting announcement that the Governing Body had discovered that they were the faithful and discreet slave. It fits nicely into the scheme of things. First, reinforce the idea that their authority comes from God, then proclaim themselves as Christ's appointee, and then tell us that they're going to require some future test of faith from us.
  
  This pattern is quite common among small cults, particularly those following a single charismatic leader. I'm not enough of a history buff to know if anything like this has ever been practiced on such a large scale, a religion of eight million that spans the globe.

Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-06-23 18:01:38
Well, I've finally found some time to comment on the subject of the article. As regards truth and loving truth, again you've hit the nail on the head Meleti. It's funny because I sent a very personal email to my father just 2 weeks ago on the very same subject of truth. He is "in the truth" and I am not. Here's a few excerpts of the email that I don't mind sharing...

"...Dad, when faced with a decision to accept what God’s word says OR accept what is being taught, what does Jehovah expect me to do? Would he expect me to accept his word as it speaks to me? Or would he expect me to ignore it/shelve it and accept what the organization is telling me when I know it’s wrong? Worse still, If I know the truth and I’m convinced of it, would Jehovah expect me to teach others a lie until those that are 'above me' adjust their thinking? You see, these are the questions I have had to answer, and before Jehovah, I can find no excuse to give him to ignore what I clearly see in his word. I have discovered that what we call the “truth” is not truly the truth. It is our "perception" of truth, but the organization insists their perception is infallible and that changes are only “refinements.” The word refinement implies taking something and improving on it. If we actively taught that the secretary with the inkhorn was the anointed and the ”mark” was baptism as one of JW’s, and now we discover that it is Jesus and the mark is the final judgment based on heart condition, then we taught a lie for decades. It was not an improvement of a teaching, rather it was changed altogether. A refinement would be believing the same thing, but adding some more details or depth to the very same understanding. Everything changed on this explanation: the identities, the timing and the application. The previous application also led to the idea that if you’re not baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses before the end, then you’ll be destroyed. It created a self-righteous attitude that indicated we had already determined who was going to live and die based on baptism in an organization. It also served to have everyone in a rush to preach and get people to baptism in the organization before the end, otherwise they would die…as if Jesus could not figure out what was in people’s hearts! …as if Jesus would say to someone: “The next convention for you to get baptized is in 3 months, but Armageddon is THIS week. Sorry, you didn’t make it!” If we taught that Gog was Satan for decades when he really isn’t, then we taught a lie and didn’t actually have the truth during that period. These examples indicate that we possess some truths. The Bible Teach book instructs students that if a religion possesses some truth, and just one or two lies, then it is to be rejected. It is contaminated. Knowing what I do now, what would happen if I were to apply the very statement of the publication towards the organization. They possess SOME truths, maybe a large number of truths, but there are a number of things taught that were in fact lies. There are things being taught right now that are lies. So, that has been my biggest problem now. Justifying going back to a religion that has its version of truth, and yet claims to be the only true one and has all the truths. And for those that might expose the truth where there is a lie, they will be expelled so that no one else might be aware of where there is a lie. What does that tell me? Who wants to hide the truth by silencing and eliminating anyone that would dare to speak it? Again, it does not give me any real motivation to go back. I do not believe there is something better out there as far as an organized religion. They ALL have problems, some more, some less. The Witnesses maybe have less, but they still teach lies. With regards to the baby and the bathwater adage, the baby is not the organization. The baby is the brothers and sisters as individuals. I feel there is no such a high percentage of beautiful people to be found in one group like in the congregations of JW. Yet, the bathwater are the teachings and policies that are not based on God’s word. They are false. Those teachings are to be rejected, not the brothers and sisters.. For that reason, I still love my brothers and sisters and do not reject them. So, would I be accepted in the congregation if I didn’t believe everything that is taught? Unfortunately not. Am I rejecting the brothers because of a few false teachings? No. They are imperfect just as I am. I want to associate with my brothers, but I am sure I won’t be allowed to. So, it’s not me rejecting them. It’s them rejecting me. I am convinced that the truth is not in the organization. It is the in the Bible and it is locked up and only holy spirit unlocks it. The organization has part of the truth. The truth can only be obtained by reading, studying and meditating on the Bible and letting the holy spirit lead one to the truthful conclusions without the interference of ecclesiastical-like organizations that tell you what to believe. It is not a matter of “getting” the truth, as if you get everything all at once and then nothing else is needed. It’s a process of being guided into the truths of God’s word as Jesus said the “helper” would do. He didn’t say an organization would be our helper. He said the holy spirit would be our helper. It acts on the hearts of those that chase after the truth and love God’s word. It’s truly an apprenticeship, this learning of the truths."

So, that was part of my letter to my father as to why I have decided not to go to meetings anymore. I have a label as an apostate and will not be accepted by them as I am. But the label is the organizations label, not God's and my love for truth continues to make a greater and greater separation between myself and the organization each day.

Under the heading in the article: "The Fundamental Question of Rulership" I would like to add a comment on the expressions: "...men governing men in the name of God." and "...All organized religion is a form of human rulership." It is very obvious that the governing body have established their form of ruling today. They are ruling, whether they will honestly admit it or not. Although they say it is really God ruling over his people, they exercise the authority over 8 million people and they do it without direct instructions from God. They set the rules and policies, they determine what is taught, and they enforce their man made rules and will hand someone over to spiritual, social and emotional death should they go astray. So, it's very clear that they are ruling over men today. Imperfect men ruling imperfect men. It's only been since my awakening that I see that this is definitely not a rulership that God approves of. The HS helped me understand there was no governing body in the first century when I read Galatians 1 and 2. It is clear that Christ rules directly over his disciples without a governing body in the middle. A second point, is one that precedes Christ's appointment and goes back to our history as imperfect humans, God has said clearly that the imperfect "man dominates man to his injury" and 'it does not belong to (imperfect) men to direct their steps', never mind direct or rule over others. That's the whole reason why the solution to sin and salvation does not lie with a human government. That is why God chose his son, a perfect spirit being, and that he will to be helped, not by imperfect humans, but only by imperfect humans that have attained to perfection. That being said, the governing body is a government that has supplanted Christ's direct rulership over his disciples. What is more, they assume that because they have God's spirit, they can do a pretty good job of ruling over others, when the scriptures say that it does not belong to them. They excuse it, and so do others under the excuse that "they do a pretty good job." Yet, their rulership is one of imperfect men over imperfect men.

What is more (and I'd like to get feedback on how others see this cause I've been thinking about it for a long time), is all the efforts the governing body is making to set up everything for the 1000 year reign of Christ AHEAD OF TIME and with no clear direction from above that it is even what Christ wants. Firstly, the governing body has said both in videos and in the outlines for KH construction that these buildings will likely survive Armageddon and be used in the worldwide teaching program in the new world. No where in the bible does it indicate what buildings if any will be left behind. But, for some strange reason KH's will remain...an erroneous idea that undoubtedly gets people to give more in time and money for KH's because they are investing in something that "won't be destroyed." Who wouldn't want to invest their time and money in something that is guaranteed to survive Armageddon and won't be destroyed? That would be awesome! The GB somehow knows what will survive so that we can spend our resources on those things and not have to suffer disappointment. If we were still having "book studies" in private homes, could I assume my beautiful little house would survive because it is a center for education? Speculation, speculation...

Somehow the GB takes it upon themselves to build up an empire for the new world, when they don't even understand how Christ is going to handle things. Unfortunately they are at a loss of exactly how a heavenly government will exercise it's authority over every human inhabitant on earth. They say: "We will have to wait and see," ...yet they aren't waiting to see! At this loss of understanding of how it will work, their short imagination has led them to assume that Christ will rule over people on the earth in the same way they say he is ruling over the millions of witnesses now. They feel he is already King, and has appointed them over all the belongings, so the organization filled with imperfect men is the expression of Christ's rulership on earth right now. They do not imagine it will be any different during the 1000 year reign. How do we know that they think things will be done in just the same way? THIS IS THE CLINCHER: How often have they said that the "helpers" to their committees will "take over" after the GB members "disappear from the earthly scene." If you were to ask a GB member why they are training the "helpers", he will tell you that it is with the main purpose that these ones will take over their positions in the new world. In other words, they have seen that their organization will be the only one to survive Armageddon, and that these ones that THEY have selected, will carry on the work and that Christ will rule through them. Why do you think the GB has them on every episode of the JW.ORG broadcasts? It is because they want everyone to get used to their names and faces and accept them, because "these will be the ones to rule over us on earth in the new system." This is not a conspiracy theory. They have said it in their articles and said it in their programs. In my mind, this is the greatest example of presumptuousness that I've seen among the GB. It is absolutely disgusting to see that they have already made THEIR choices of who Christ will use. The scriptures are full of proof that Christ will use his anointed disciples. He will NOT use an imperfect human to rule over imperfect humans. That is why the anointed must have their sins atoned for and reach perfection in order to rule. Anyone else on earth after Armageddon will be imperfect and will not be used in ruling. That's my belief.

So, in their lack of understanding and desire to run ahead, the GB have acted very presumptuously in selecting those that will be members of the future governing body of the new world. It might be like Samuel when he said of David's sons: 'surely he is the one that God has anointed!' His preference did not resemble God's choice. The GB's preferences of who will take over on the earth does not resemble God and Christ's choices. They have failed to understand, or at least wait and see what Christ has arranged and how he will handle things. If you were to ask them "Where do you get support for the idea that Christ will use these imperfect men in ruling over the earth?" There will be a lot of ummms and aaaahhhs. It is almost unfathomable to think that these mature men who know their Bible so well, think that for some reason Christ with a perfect group of rulers, is going to have imperfect men somehow ruling over others. That would be a repeat of what we've already had for 6000 years. If and when they are resurrected, can you imagine the disappointment on their faces when Christ says: "Who told you that was what I wanted? Did you not read....that the anointed will rule as kings and priests, not some group of imperfect men you selected? Why would you ever come to the conclusion that I would use an imperfect human ruler to make things perfect? Did you not read... Did you not read...."

As you can see, it is very upsetting to see these men go ahead and start making their own appointments of who shall rule on the earth, when Christ is the one who does the appointing. Do the privileges imperfect men extend to each other (like politicians rewarding each other with favors or accolades) have greater importance than the privilege Christ extends to one of the least his brothers to rule? Yet, their appointments seem to have greater weight than Christ's appointments. Very sad indeed!

Much love, ...and apologies for a long comment.

Comment by Cecilia on 2016-08-03 10:36:29
Meleti thank you for the article.
I read most of the comments and I would like to say in response to jonsc11 and his knowledge on dates and biblical chronology. I don't know where and how you came with all these specific dates or years. I'm just thinking on the people that are illiterate or don't have the time to search the Bible or the skills to read archeology/history books to compare dates, or people that do not have access to a Bible. There might be many other circumstances that impedes people to acquire knowledge on Biblical chronology. But, something I know for true is that our salvation, loving God, and believing on our Lord Jesus doesn't depend on our knowledge on chronology. God sees our hearts and not the amount of knowledge we have on chronology or prophecies. I consider myself one of them. I just came out of a religion ( JWs) that based their knowledge on all these false chronologies. For what? Is it that making us more precious on God's eyes? Will that guaranteed our salvation? Are we trying to put ourselves above others with all these knowledge?
It is something that we all need to think. The only truth for me is that God exist and his son Jesus sacrifice was for all human kind not just for a little group of people with lots of knowledge.
- Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-08-03 11:36:34
  Welcome to the site, Cecilia. You are quite right in that we are not saved by an understanding of chronology. I was just reading Romans 12 and 13 this morning and one thing is clear from that, it is faith by which we are declared righteous.
  - Reply by Cecilia on 2016-08-03 17:36:46
    Yes, Meleti you couldn't say it better. Faith is the key word I was missing in my comment Thank you.
- Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-08-26 14:51:30
  "Don't have time to search the Bible"??
  I actually thought I misread your comment.
  Proverbs 2:4,5

Comment by How Well Do You Know Jehovah? - Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2020-02-16 12:00:10
[…] https://beroeans.net/2016/06/19/the-rise-and-fall-of-jw-org/ […]

Comment by chicho on 2020-02-17 03:37:29
Well, they told us the last month whats coming for 2025 (every 50 years like you said), the new studio filming proyect (their mini hollywood), the GB wants a kind of netflix JW broadcast

Comment by How Well Do You Know Jehovah? – Study 2019/51 - Awaken JW's on 2022-08-27 08:18:25
[…] https://beroeans.net/2016/06/19/the-rise-and-fall-of-jw-org/ […]

The Rise and Fall of JW.org

The Rise

True Worship Reestablished

The Enemy Appears

A Pattern Emerges

The Fundamental Question of Rulership

Is History about to Be Repeated?

JW.Org—The New Organization

The Cycle Repeats?

Something Worse than 1925 or 1975

It Is Unlikely that They Would Do This!

A Moment of Sane Reflection

A Warning, not a Prediction

Archived Comments

Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-06-20 12:02:19

Comment by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 12:45:55

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 13:46:27

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 13:57:54

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 14:09:25

Reply by Keaton on 2016-06-19 16:54:09

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:08:24

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 14:08:09

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 14:19:56

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 15:05:43

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 15:49:01

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 17:59:44

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:05:32

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:09:23

Reply by Menrov on 2016-06-20 07:01:19

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 07:17:02

Reply by john971 on 2016-06-20 07:37:27

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:37:39

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:54:58

Reply by john971 on 2016-06-20 10:34:44

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 07:44:47

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:03:50

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:24:57

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 07:57:02

Reply by dionys on 2016-06-19 17:21:24

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 18:04:06

Reply by Menrov on 2016-06-20 07:22:14

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:04:34

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:27:52

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:02:06

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:20:24

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-20 09:47:29

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-20 09:59:15

Comment by john971 on 2016-06-19 15:34:18

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-19 18:05:58

Reply by Johnsc11 on 2016-06-19 18:33:46

Comment by Keaton on 2016-06-19 16:16:16

Comment by Search-truth on 2016-06-19 18:47:15

Comment by lazarus on 2016-06-21 03:57:47

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-21 07:54:30

Comment by tyhik on 2016-06-22 07:02:29

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-06-22 08:00:46

Comment by Yehorakam on 2016-06-23 18:01:38

Comment by Cecilia on 2016-08-03 10:36:29

Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2016-08-03 11:36:34

Reply by Cecilia on 2016-08-03 17:36:46

Reply by Thaddeus on 2017-08-26 14:51:30

Comment by How Well Do You Know Jehovah? - Beroean Pickets - JW.org Reviewer on 2020-02-16 12:00:10

Comment by chicho on 2020-02-17 03:37:29

Comment by How Well Do You Know Jehovah? – Study 2019/51 - Awaken JW's on 2022-08-27 08:18:25

Recent content

Why Is Isaiah 9:6 Different in the Septuagint Old Testament?

We Have Some Great News to Share and We Need Your Help!

Isaiah 9:6 -- How Does Jesus Christ Become "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father"?

What Is Really Wrong About Praying to Jesus?

Does Jesus Want Us to Pray to Him?

2024 Annual Meeting: “Show Me the Money!” What the Latest Governing Body Appointments Reveal