Love and Justice in Ancient Israel – (Part 1 of 4)

Comment by lost in space on 2019-04-29 10:32:04

Well done Tadua for your continued consideration of the study material. We would highly recommend two current postings on youtube channel " witness for Jesus" of a mighty, reasoning-with-the-scriptures sister, who had faded, and now faces a judicial committee and then
an appeal committee soon after. Both are recorded, even the brothers deliberations in their decision. A bold and righteous testimony in contrast to the "company men".

Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2019-04-29 12:40:51

Thank you Tadua, for your thoughts. Regarding the two witness rule, in Ancient Israel there was also the provision suggested strongly by Leviticus 5:1 - namely a call to testify.
If the men at the gates could not find two witnesses, they could have used this provision to ensure justice was meted out. The call to testify is important to a fair trial, but is sadly lacking before a JW appeal or a judicial committee, as the accused often does not know the full details of his accusation and has no one to speak on his behalf,

Comment by Eleasar on 2019-04-30 05:40:17

Good work again Tadua.

1. In paragraph 12 the article states that when they obeyed the Law, he blessed them. The history of Israel as recorded in the Bible and specifically throughout the prophetic books, the charge is that the Law was corrupted by judges, etc. hence the people were oppressed. The question is could this happen today? The nonsense talked about bringing reapproach on God's name hold people back. The reality is no human can bring reapproach on his Name. The entire dealings with Israel demonstrate this.

2. In paragraph 22-24, we see the Law protecting widows and orphans. In Isaiah 1:17, 23 it is clear that they were suffering due to oppression and the Law not being administered justly. In paragraph 24, the statement is that Jehovah places people in positions of responsibility. In the Law covenant, the process is explicitly stated with checks and balances. Again it is dependent on humans submitting to God's Law.

For the Christian age, there is no explicit arrangement other than Elder and MS. These are over local congregations and chosen by them. In the NT, Elders are NOT called to be judges in this capacity. Would the GB and Branch etc also be placed or appointed by Jehovah? Where is the scriptural evidence for such an entity?

In practice, the vast majority of Elders await direction from the Branch, who get it from the GB. This means that the injustices and failings arise from that group and they have not apologised or offered support to the victims. Strangely, most of Christendom's churches have done this! It seems like Satan's organisations (according to WT definition) are proving repentant, contrite and humble!!!

Obviously the three follow up articles in May go into more detail.

• Reply by Mara Fayde on 2019-05-01 16:22:52

  “In practice, the vast majority of Elders await direction from the Branch, who get it from the GB. This means that the injustices and failings arise from that group and they have not apologised or offered support to the victims. Strangely, most of Christendom’s churches have done this! It seems like Satan’s organisations (according to WT definition) are proving repentant, contrite and humble!!!”
  
  Amen to that. And how sad the GB can’t be moved to even acknowledge, much less apologize.

Comment by Alithia on 2019-04-30 05:42:15

Currently JW judicial procedures are inappropriate, inadequate and demonstrably harmful to many who are drawn into the process, especially victims of child abuse. Not to mention not being compliant with the Australian law where knowledge of such abuse is mandatory to be reported to the relevant authorities. The two witness rule, how it is interpreted and applied is a joke.

I would like firstly to say that there is no question as to the bible mentioning 2 or 3 witnesses in connection with solving issues, where there is strife, or where incontrovertible proof needs to be established. However, I think there is a real problem with understanding, where these scriptures appear, and finally in the application Jehovah’s Witnesses make using these scriptures in their judicial system. Particularly with regard to cases of child abuse.

I refer to the accounts in Deuteronomy, only glossed over by JW publications and not analysed in any context or historical background or anything else except for how it is applied today. In this case firstly Duet 19:15. The context beforehand describes two situations where the same thing occurred. The loss of life, at the hand of another. The context discusses how in both situations the one who caused the death flees to the city of refuge. Both the one who intentionally, and the other who unintentionally, caused the untimely death. The context does not consider at this point if there were any witnesses to the incident, or not. The matter is consequently decided later, by the elders of the city as to the guilt or innocence of the ones who caused the death of another person.

One aspect the elders would consider as evidence or as a witness is if there was a motive and opportunity for doing so, such as mentioned in Duet 19:11. "But if a man hated his fellow man and he was waiting to attack and he fatally wounded him and he died". The elders could consider this as sufficient motive and circumstances for the assailant having intentionally caused the death of his fellow man. But there would be other indicators the elders could and would need to consider.

No doubt their conclusion would be reached from their thorough investigation into the matter. Simply hating someone and wanting to actually kill someone is a subjective thing, difficult to gauge. The one causing the death could dispute this; especially they would do this if they were innocent of murder and were guilty only of man slaughter! The evidence of the one who caused the untimely death would need to be heard impartially too. No doubt the elders would take into consideration many matters around the circumstances of the incident. Any past activities of the assailant, any words said, in the past, to the victim or others, indicating he wanted to harm or cause the death of the victim, any past aggression or assaults, other actions or the actual circumstances where on the day things coalesced to the point where the assailant actually caused the death of the victim.

Duet 19:16-21 continues with regard to the matter of 2 witnesses, but does not end on the matter, just because there are not 2 witnesses. It continues with regards to the matter of there being only one witness, and a possible malicious witness at that. The scriptures do not say to the elders they should cease the investigation, ( as in today where there is a case of a reported child abuse where there is no other witness except the victim) in important matters such as the killing of someone or moving the boundary marker or any sin or error, Duet 19:15.

Just because there are not 2 witnesses. A case of one person’s word against another. (such as is often the case in cases of child sexual abuse). The single accuser may insist on his testimony, take a vow as was common in the time, and no doubt would be aware of the consequences of offering false and malicious testimony. Rather the scriptures advise the continuing procedure for, firstly, determining if the single, accuser is a malicious witness or not. After which no doubt, further investigation may reveal the guilt or innocence of the accused, or of how to deal with a malicious witness. This leads to another provision under the Mosaic Law, something conveniently overlooked by JW Org today when they refer back to the Mosaic Law as a support to how they do things today. Something the JW Org does not have at their disposal as did the nation of Israel is the miraculous Urim and Thummim. Exodus 28:30. Which gave Arron and the priest’s supernatural power to determine the truth of a matter where it was difficult to judge. Still in the context of 2 witnesses, the scriptures continue, Duet 19:17. The two men that have the dispute will stand before Jehovah, the priests and the judges who will be serving in those days.

JW Org agrees this is the method whereby the priests could invoke Divine intervention to resolve an otherwise humanely impossible task. Again provided for in the Mosaic Law, Numbers 5:5-31. If a man was suspicious of his wife being involved in infidelity although not being able to prove it. He could approach the priests who would invoke Divine intervention by carrying out the water test. Verse 13 says, if another man had relations with her but it was unknown to her husband and remained undiscovered, so that she had defiled herself but there were no witnesses against her and she had not been caught: Under Divine intervention the woman would drink what appears to be plain water and some dust from the tabernacle and made to drink it. If guilty she would experience an observable, immediate and painful outcome. This would reveal the truth of the undiscoverable matter. The JW info states (without any real evidence), the Urim and the Thummim was only used in matters of national importance, trying to downplay the use of this provision in more every day to day matters of judgement, although this is only an assumption. It fails to address how the water tests involving Divine intervention in Numbers 5:5-31 addresses a simple matter which in the final analyses could also have been only the unfounded jealous feelings of a loser of a husband! In any case it is amazing to think that unsolved murders as in the case of the cities of refuge or matters of apostasy or false and malicious witnesses, (and we could add sexual child abuse to the list), could not constitute matters of national importance!

The JW organisation and the elder bodies do not today possess the miraculous Urim and Thummim, or Miracle Water. There was nothing amiss with the Mosaic Law at the time it was given as Duet 32:4 states, The Rock perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust righteous and upright is he. They are the one who have acted corruptly. Says Duet in finality after listing the Law and how it should be administered, and noting if there is any injustice it is because of man not God.

Today, where fault is found with the two witness rule and how it is applied is not an attack on Divine direction, by “worldly authorities” as the speaker in the VDO/JW broadcast would like to make out. The closest thing we have today is our highly regarded shepherd the flock book that was torn apart at the Royal commission.

The books content has cherry picked from certain aspects from the Mosaic Law where it wants to. Such as the two witness rule. But as a result it fails to deliver a coherent system of dealing with problems because of trying to import only some aspects of the Mosaic Law that fit another time, another place, another people another circumstance and in the final analyses an altogether redundant system that does not work because it is not supported by Divine intervention when required. And that has been replaced by the Kingly Law of Love, (James 2:8) which is supported and has Gods backing. As already brought out by the comments of others, righteousness is proved by the works or results. The results of the 2 witness rule are horrendous! Anyone supporting it and adding to the horror surely must bear responsibility before Jehovah.

I would now like to discuss Matthew 18:15-17. With reference to the JW broadcast VDO doubling down on the 2 witness rule and used as evidence that the 2 witness rule in the Mosaic Law is re-stated for Christians and is binding to be practiced in the Christian congregation. As implemented by JWs. And supposedly, is supportive of the strong scriptural backing for the judicial process used by JW as pertaining to sexual child abuse.

Firstly to begin with the Org often uses this section of scripture to support their judicial system as if Jesus words were intended for that purpose. Let’s look at the entire chapter first to get a feel for what Jesus words were intended for? Reading the chapter helps see what view Jesus had in uttering those words. His view was mainly focused on the attitude and the efforts of the wronged person in trying to gain his brother. Reading the chapter in its entirety you get the feel Jesus was teaching his disciples lessons on developing Godly qualities. The need for humility, forgiveness and how to get along with one another in love. Of the need to make great efforts and self-sacrifice in this regard, in imitation of their Father Jehovah. In the first few verses Jesus corrects his followers who were constantly squabbling, and who had aspirations to be great among them, he teaches them to be humble, and uses an illustration of children who are humble and teachable. A radical idea in a society that valued honour and high status amongst peers.

He continues to give the illustration of the 99 sheep and the lost one, illustrating the need to care for others no matter how insignificant in the big scheme of things, all sheep were important to God, paying particular attention to the needy lost sheep, and not just to the 99 safely in the pen. Jesus disciples were not to be callous and uncaring like the Pharisees. Jesus disciples ask him how many times they should forgive their brother. Jesus famously replies not just 7 times but 77 times! He gives a lengthy lesson in forgiveness. From versus 21-35 using the story of the King who forgave much and the slave who would not reciprocate with others who owed him. A lesson in how we need to imitate our Father in the matter of forgiveness, he has forgiven us much, so we could at least readily extend mercy and forgiveness to our brothers and sisters. Otherwise the wrath of God will come upon us! In other passages of scripture such as at Matt chapter 5 Jesus says how if we think someone has a gripe against us we should take the initiative to remedy the rift. Leave our gift at the altar! No hard and fast rules here just an expression as to how seriously one should view their responsibility and the efforts one should go to maintain good relationships with our brothers.
Now with the context of Jesus words in mind, let’s look and read without any preconceived ideas the section in Matthew 18:15-17.

“Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.

Firstly carefully note it is presupposed a brother has a legitimate, cause for complaint against his brother. This is not a situation to establish guilt, and consequently share this knowledge with others, and then to use this as a basis for punitive action. And the fault is one that obviously can be resolved between them. That’s why the counsel is to raise the matter between them in a confidential setting. Reveal the fault between him and you alone! This is the loving thing to do. Jesus continues, by saying if he does not listen and you do not succeed in gaining your brother; take along one or two more. From Jesus words the wronged individual may take along only one more person, not to establish guilt but in an effort to readjust and to gain their brother! Not to ascertain guilt or to have 2 or more witnesses to nail the wrong doer later on in a judicial council! The whole gist of the exercise is to gain their brother; if he does not respond then it would seem the efforts for the time being are not bearing the desired results. The wronged one must remember Jesus’ words, “you must forgive your brother 77 times”. The wronged one together with the one or two witnesses who endeavour to help the erring individual could then go to the congregation for additional support to help the erring one. No mention here of a body of elders, no mention of a judicial committee to establish guilt, no mention of the 2 witness rule. In fact 2 witnesses in this account is clearly insufficient because the whole congregation becomes involved, possibly consisting of 50-60 people! And then if the person still does not respond and all options are exhausted. Then it’s time to view that person in a different light. All the time keeping in mind Jesus’ word in Matthew 18: 21-22. You should forgive your brother 77 times! And of the parable of the merciful King. Nothing described here even remotely has a parallel with the modern day judicial process with Jehovah’s Witnesses! The whole point of the exercise in Jesus’ words is to point out to the disciples that you go to great efforts to help your brother even if he has wronged you. It’s about you, the wronged one and your attitude, and how you should conduct yourself towards the wrongdoer! Not about some prescribed strict procedure in dealing with someone who has wronged us. If we take this latter attitude then we have missed the import of Jesus words at Matt 18 completely, and made it about someone else and not us.

A case of the straw in our brother’s eye and the rafter in our own. Hence the lost sheep, the need to forgive 77 times, the parable of the King who forgave a great debt and the need to be humble before Jehovah and have the correct perspective of ourselves. The resultant viewing the former brother as a tax collector is only incidental to demonstrate that every effort has been exhausted to gain their brother who has not responded. This account is not a formula for a process with punitive action as a goal if a person does not respond in a favourable way. There is no mention of a time frame, any action other than “listening” ( one would consider this to mean having come to the view that he has indeed wronged his brother and taken ownership of his wrong doing) that could be considered as a sign of being repentant, no mention of any actions required to indicate remorse or regret. No doubt this is required but Jesus did not mention this here! The full focus is on the individual who is wronged and his attitude in trying to address his being wronged by his brother. Again let’s be reminded of the context in which Jesus gave this instruction. We read latter in the book of James; sadly some brothers were not able to apply this loving merciful advice towards each other and were even taking each other to court and making law suits against each other!

Further there is another mention of the expression two or three witnesses as found at 2 Corinthians 13:1. Here he is talking about faith in Jesus as the Christ and the need to be patterned after Jesus’s example, and not given to immoral desires and practices as some had. That this expression of the two or three witnesses is used as a Hebraism (Familiar Hebrew expression, the meaning from the used words not exactly corresponding to the actual words) there is no doubt. Otherwise if we were to take the expression as literal in this context then Paul must have meant that his discussion and the points made could not be validated until his third visit! Paul was only one person, the same person, who would visit for the third time. In any case two witnesses are enough. Paul obviously is using this Hebraism saying as it is meant to. Meaning he would become thoroughly knowledgeable of the circumstances of what he was talking to the Corinthian brothers about.
How in the world these sections of scripture can be ever construed to be a basis for the arbitrary, rigid, unloving, rough shod justice of a judicial process of JWs today is a mystery to me. Let alone a connection to the Mosaic Law! Especially in a context when it involves minors who have been sexually abused! How on earth would a minor? Say a ten year old girl face a 40 year old man, perhaps her own Father who also has the support of the Mother too, and try to resolve the issue of incest or rape? How would this be resolved? A minor is clearly incapable. Matthew 18 is clearly involving mature adults who are capable of not only revealing a possible serious fault but also of successfully resolving it too! The person driving the process is the wronged individual not the congregation. It is the wronged individual who makes the value judgement at all steps of the process. Jesus counsel emphasises the need to be merciful at all stages of the process in trying to gain your brother. The organisations judicial process today takes the process out of the hands of the wronged individual even if the wronged one is a minor and the child of a mature Christian parent in the congregation. They, the parents, have to wait on the side lines and allow others who are more than likely a window cleaner or a janitor to deliberate over matters he has zero experience in. A process as we have discussed that predictably will stall if there are not 2 witnesses to the incident!

In addition, the Hebrew word for witness does not necessarily mean a person; it could mean many other things. There are many instances in the Hebrew Scriptures where for example an altar erected stands as a witness to an agreement. In today’s terms such as in a case of sexual child abuse it could mean phone records retrieved by police, forensic evidence such as DNA. It could mean a subpoena and an oath to tell the truth in a court of law. Or could mean being cross examined, by a skilled lawyer or police prosecutor it could mean a child being questioned by a skilled child psychologist or a skilled criminal investigator. It could mean submitting to a lie detector test, it could mean a myriad of things as available from the superior authorities that God has put in place and allows to exist and Christians are told to cooperate with. Romans 13:1 “Let everyone be in subjection to the superior authorities, who are Gods ministers”.

One only has to wonder why the JW Org does not wish to modify their policy on the 2 witness rule and some other aspects of their judicial system. It does not require too much thought to come to a plausible conclusion. If they admit to the 2 witness rule as in need of change then this is the thin edge of the wedge. This would be admission that this policy has caused untold misery to many individuals. It means the judicial system as administered by the elders is bogus. The question then could follow, elders are not appointed by Holy Spirit as they claim and they are not being guided by Holy Spirit either! Which they claim the whole process is underpinned by.

The need to change has been brought to their attention by worldly people, especially worldly authorities! How can they make a change on the advice of worldly peoples? The whole process they say has God’s blessing and is a loving process. This is too much to have to go back on. It appears they have given it much thought and come to the conclusion the damage would be to great and so they have to double down as shown in one of the latest VDO. They have no remorse or show any Christian conscience in the matter. 1 Tim 4:2 Their conscience is seared as with a branding iron. This is what can happen when you have been lying to others and to yourself for so long. The brother in the JW VDO on the 2 witness rule said that the apostates can mess your head up. I feel sorry for him, he sounds completely gone in the head I really feel sorry for him. The reasoning he uses is not scriptures, but mostly expressions such as, evidently, and of course, and clearly, or no doubt! Without any reasoning at all we are just expected to accept his explanations at face value!

It’s amazing how in the JW broadcast VDO they use a straw man argument. This is a case they say, of staying faithful to God’s word! Apostates and the government authorities want us to compromise! We are being persecuted for being faithful to scripture and the two witness rule! This is not the case, the real “man” as they know, is their flawed policies, it has scant scriptural support and the results are horrendous. They have been caught out after criticizing relentlessly the Catholic Church on the same matter for decades. In fact from the statistics revealed in the Australian royal commission into institutional child sex abuse, of at least 1100 cases reported to the branch you can average out over the last 20 years at least 1.5 paedophiles in each congregation of JWs in Australia! That is probably only the tip of the iceberg too. How can JWs admit to this in the spiritual paradise? The fore gleam, they say, of what we can expect from this clean society in the new world! It does not fit the mould of the carefully nurtured picture of the spiritual paradise we are supposed to be enjoying. And calls into question too many other things! In fact the figures average higher than in the Catholic Church!

In fact based on the figures from the Royal commission (as supplied by brother Vincent Toole in person live on T.V) the average statistic is that JWs incidence of child abuse is 10 times higher than that reported in the Catholic Church!
One cannot ignore the above and pretend you are pleasing Jehovah as showing faith in his ability to fix thing by saying something like “Park it, do not let it worry you, do not think about it”. Wait on Jehovah to fix it.

In the Dark Ages justice was dispensed by those responsible and matters were solved at times by “Trial by Combat or Trial by Ordeal. This is where two people battled it out. The idea being God would not let the just person suffer or lose the combat! What would be your reaction as you watched a huge giant of a man with a heavy rod bashing mercilessly a much smaller and weaker opponent? The same as is indicated to us above and promoted by JW leadership? Or in the other case as was the method of tying up a person, putting heavy weights on them and letting them sink in water. The idea being the water would reject a sinner by making them float to the surface. In the case of the innocent, the water would “accept them”!!! Hopefully the onlookers could swim or a sturdy rope was tied to the drownee! You know it was the wealthy careless class that instituted these barbaric and horrible “solutions “ for the common people’s problems, and called it Law.


Regarding the above there is little difference in the idea God will intervene if he wants to and if nothing is changing then it is God's will. This is blasphemous to suggest God is responsible, for the horrendous suffering of abuse victims! When Brother Jackson was referred to a section of scripture Duet 22:25 following the two witness rule in scripture. Counsel for the Royal Commission asked Jackson about this account in scripture where a woman was raped and there were no other witnesses to the rape and yet the man was found guilty. Jackson was asked if as is clearly stated in scripture where there is no second witness, the scriptures show a guilty verdict could still be found. Jackson was asked why this could not be relevant to cases of child abuse. Jackson was stunned and left speechless.

Brother Geoffrey Jackson responding to the suggestions from counsel that there could be modifications to the two witness rule and associated process by saying. “If Jesus wants to change things then he can change them. I wish I could talk to him about it”. Geoffrey obviously got his answer, just how we can’t be sure, but he did say he would like to talk to him. From the later VDO doubling down on the two witness rule we can assume as a result of Jesus talking to Brother Jackson this is officially Jesus’ response. We must trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave! What do you see here as being faithful or even discreet when it comes to trauma and hurt to the worst degree?
James 4:17. He who knows how to do what is right and does not do it is a sin for him.
Proverbs 21:13. Whoever stops up his ear to the cry of the lowly one will himself call and not be answered.
Romans 14:12. So each one, will render an account for himself, to God.

We cannot excuse ourselves or others in matters by delegating our personal responsibility to others for things that are unbecoming in the sight of Jesus and Jehovah. And even worse attributing the existence and continuance of despicable things to Jehovah and Jesus, this is blasphemy that we cannot escape adverse judgement from!

Love to all, I just had to spill my thoughts on this one as it reminds me of many an elders meeting I participated in where I was just completely demoralised and felt dirty by the injustices carried out..

• Reply by Tadua on 2019-04-30 08:06:53

  Alithia,
  I am total agreement with everything you said.
  They are neither faithful to God’s inspired word in its complete context, nor discreet in their application of chosen parts. Nor humble, nor honest, nor loving. Truly a wicked slave.

  • Reply by lost in space on 2019-04-30 09:01:49

    Dear friend, what you have posted on our "small" forum with our Beroean family needs to be shouted from the rooftops and contributed to many other media/internet spaces. The insightfulness and righteous Bible reasoning presented was masterful and I can only believe, fully spirit directed. May our fellow readers be able to bring your discussion to the attention of activists and any who are willing to engage. This message truly needs to go "viral". Our warmest regards to you and for such a mighty witness for the true justice of Jehovah and Jesus

    • Reply by lost in space on 2019-04-30 09:05:03

      Addressed to Alithia??

• Reply by lazarus on 2019-04-30 19:11:00

  Well Said Brother,
  
  Why does the JW .Org GB leadership get it so wrong on child abuse & the Judicial process in general? Basically as you highlighted above.
  
  Many active JWs are simply not aware of the process to resolve issues. And many are not accurately taught what and how these texts should be applied. Rather they are taught the misapplication.
  
  So this criticism is fully justified Alithia. It’s a very thorough critique.

  • Reply by Alithia on 2019-05-02 07:22:31

    Yes Lazarus, I think we all have been affected to a degree, we find hard to fathom at times. We have heard the scriptures misapplied so many times for soooo long that it has been ingrained in our minds and the brain synapsis just fire off automatically. We may at times even think that our thoughts are truly the product of our own thinking, meditation and conclusions, however often in the end we realise it is simply indoctrination.
    
    Never ceases to amaze me , the scripture which says the god of the system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. We all were and are probably to some degree still affected by the brain washing.
    
    Surely when Jah/Jesus help us with Holy Spirit to grasp truths the way they are meant to be understood we must consider ourselves like the trader who upon finding a pearl of great value rejoiced greatly.

• Reply by Mara Fayde on 2019-05-01 16:16:45

  This analysis is perfection. I wish this could be substituted for the Watchtower discussion on Sunday. I loved the point you made about the Hebrew word for “witness.” It doesn’t need to be a person, it can be an assortment of evidence. Well done.
  
  Also I need to watch the ARC. I haven’t gotten to it yet.

Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2019-04-30 12:45:06

Great comment Alithia. Very thorough. So often we get the response "Do you think Jesus is directing the congregation, and don't you think that if it is important, he will correct it ?"
I had not thought it as blasphemy before, as (a) it is telling us that if the teaching is wrong, that he has allowed it or (b) that he permits wrongdoing under the the name of his rulership.

Comment by Bernardbooks on 2019-04-30 12:50:18

When reading the part about judging it reminded me of a scripture that caught my attention in the OCLM meeting Bible reading some time ago.

1 Corinthians 6:5

NWT 2013
“Is there not one wise man among you who is able to judge between his brothers?”

Kingdom Interlinear 1985
“Thus not is in YOU no one wise who will be able to judge through up midst of the brother
of him”

ESV
“Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers”

HCSB
“Can it be that there is not one wise person among you who is able to arbitrate between his brothers?”

NRSV
“Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to decide between one believer and another”

I found some other scriptures that have similar wording but the NWT doesn’t add “man” or “men” to these but they do add “persons” in one.

Ephesians 5:15 NWT 1984
“So keep strict watch that how YOU walk is not as unwise but as wise [persons]”

James 3:13 NWT 2013
“Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him by his fine conduct demonstrate works performed with a mildness that comes from from wisdom.”


This is the question I originally had,
Why is the word “man” added in the verse of 1 Corinthians 6:5 in the NWT and many other older English translations?


I did find in some dictionaries and lexicons that the greek word sophos can mean in some context, a wise man or sage or human wisdom as compared to the wisdom from above. One example of this is seen below. Interestingly, brackets are used in the quotation from Isaiah but not in the question that follows it and also not in 6:5. In Ephesians 5:15 brackets are used. That seems to me to be an inconsistency.

1 Corinthians 1:18-21 NWT 1984
“For the speech about the torture stake is foolishnessto those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is God’s power. For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise [men] perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual [men] I will shove aside.” Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing.”


I’m not too sure about all of this and would welcome any thoughts and suggestions but it seems to me that since Paul was writing to men and women in the congregation he was either using the word “wise” in the negative connotation of human wisdom compared to Godly wisdom or he was speaking of the wisdom all Christians should possess. If it was the latter it seems like it would have been better translated as “wise [persons]”
or just simply as “wise”.

If the former is a better possibility then I can fully understand why some translations add the word “man”, but when I looked at the NWT 1984 Reference Bible I was thrown for another loop when I saw the two cross references that were given right after the words “wise man”.


1 Corinthians 6:5 NWT Reference 1984
“Is it true that there is not one wise man* among YOU that will be able to judge between his brothers”

*
Deuteronomy 1:13
“Get wise and discreet and experienced men of YOUR tribes, that I may set them as heads over YOU.“

1 Timothy 3:2
“The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach,“


From their cross references it seems that the addition of the word “man” has been used and kept in all the NWT editions not because its simply the best choice in translation but rather as a crutch to their tradition that only men can act as judge between believers.

• Reply by lost in space on 2019-04-30 17:47:53

  Hi Berardbooks. Very interesting observations and we would agree also therefore with your natural, probably obvious conclusion to WT leadership agenda with regard that scripture. ?

• Reply by Gogetter on 2019-05-02 06:49:23

  Great analysis and comments!
  I would like to suggest that Tadua do an early analysis of the May
  Watchtower study articles that I believe will be covered in July with a focus on those of us still in (PIMO) to be able to make intelligent and strategic “wake up!” Comments where possible.
  I dare say most of the publishers are totally unaware of the child abuse situation including the ARC and mega lawsuits.
  If performed correctly this can serve to help them do their own investigation, the more friends that actually know what is going on the better. The only way for this to change is by the true head of the congregation Jesus and in my opinion he will make that change from those of us within the congregation. Let’s be honest if you have been DF’d or out for many years you have been totally neutralized and have no real way to help our family and friends unless they stumble upon this website.
  We have already seen even the loss of millions of donated funds,the reproach on Jehovah’s name and even the superior authorities have not made any real impact on the GB and these May WT articles are not a mea culpa moment for the organization but designed to make it look like they have it all together and there’s Really know problem. They can do this because most of the R & F Will not entertain anything negative about the org. And if they have seen some of the news coverage about this ( which is hard to image they haven’t) it’s part of Apostate or Satan’s attacks.
  I hope we all can comment on the Analysis here that will be given
  With a view to helping those activists in the congregation to make such comments that will accomplish this without us being pulled in to the back room.
  The GB really doesn’t fear those who have left or who have been expelled, they fear those “in” the congregation,Bethel and the Branches who are totally awake and undercover and are on a serious seek and destroy mission as we speak.
  
  Your Brother in Christ

  • Reply by lost in space on 2019-05-04 02:49:11

    Hi gogetter, yes as a fellow pimo, I have been thinking about to best word our comments when this article is read. Having a "third person authority" approach, as in my case as a
    mandated reporter of abuse in my line of childcare 0-12 yr old Out of School hours care and nanny, answer ing "in my childcare course social welfare officers spoke of the long history of the culture of the cover up and denial. Whether it be unwed mothers,alcoholism, domestic violence or all child abuse.so too..."
    Also another answer I have prepared is: "Sadly, concerns for bringing reproach on Jehovah's name and org. has stopped some from reporting the crime of pedophia or other abuses to the police..."
    Third one: " The scriptural principle that would apply in such cases would be (any of the variations of..) if one becomes aware of sin and doesn't report it is a shared in the crime.
    Readers at Beroeans- I have with working with 0-12 yr olds for 26 years in Victoria, Australia and possibly can help you formulate a" look at your laws where you live " style answer using a third person / authority based comment for that poorly attempted "looking good /we are squeeky-clean" 2 articles in the WT.

  • Reply by messenger on 2019-05-04 08:21:37

    Right now the Governing Body is petitioning courts to force many activists who are not active in JW congregations anymore to give WT the names of persons who have provided them with certain WT docs, and/or to cease and desist from posting certain WT published materials and WT internal memos online.
    
    Some elders have also been instructed to summon activists that have been congregationally inactive for years to judicial hearings and charge them with "causing divisions". Even though these inactive ones have had no contact with any congregation for years. Nor do they want to.
    
    The GB definitely is concerned about the activities of activists who expose WT. Including those that have left their Kingdom Hall.
    
    I attended the Hall for over 40 years. In all that time that I was a member-covering 7 different congregations- I never met an active Jehovah's Witness that spoke against WT in or out of the Hall. I knew some that spoke against some elders, but not elders as a whole group.
    
    I have communicated with an Australian friend, that I met on an activist website who claims he has spoken against Society policies in his. . . And he got dfd for doing so, on the grounds he was causing divisions.
    
    WT is concerned about those who still attend and those who don't, if they speak against WT. WT can do quite a bit less harm to those who don't attend meetings. And because of that it's possible they fear them more.
    
    But with respect to who the congregation members will listen to you have a valid point. Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are like the Israeli nation that separated itself from it's neighbors. As for spiritual matters only words from active members are given consideration.

Comment by rusticshore on 2019-05-03 06:33:04

Of course, while the majority of points made above are correct, we must remember that we are not under the Judeo-Christian manner of doing things. That being said, we can "gleen" certain dealings as it relates to sinners, confession, sins, and how they are should be handled under the Christian scriptures.

The vast sum of trespass under the Governing Body set of rules cannot be supported by scripture, since they are generally not mentioned in the biblical record as something spoken of as offensive to Jah (i.e. birthdays, etc).

While there has been some good accomplished by the JW organization, no doubt, and honestly believe Jah found a useful purpose for the organization for a time - it appears that may have expired . . . based upon a number of notable factors. In the end . . . I see the JW Headquarters not much more than simply a spiritual law firm - struggling to keep its head above water.

Comment by lost in space on 2019-05-04 03:06:43

Hi Gogetter, regarding the 2 child abuse study articles, I have been preparing several carefully worded comments already and thought I would share these here.
I actually have been working with children 0-12 yrs old for 26 years as a mandated reporter of child abuse based on "reasonable grounds evidence" in Victoria Australia. I am an Out of School hours/holiday programs Co-ordinater and a nanny... So..my comments..
1. "Sadly, bringing reproach on Jehovah's name and org. has stopped some from reporting the crime of pedophilia or other abuses to the police".
2. "One of the scriptural principles that apply here is (any variation of) if one becomes aware of a sin/crime and does not disclose the matter, they are a shared in his works.
3. Third person comments such us.."when I was learning about mandatory reporting/in the child care course I took.. the social welfare officers spoke of the decades long culture of the "cover up" and denial. Unwed mothers, alcoholism, domestic violence and child abuse was in that number"
Hope those ideas can help. I am available to help formulate your ideas. Regards

• Reply by messenger on 2019-05-04 17:09:20

  Lost in Space
  
  Another scriptural principle that applies to reporting sexual child abuse, and this is a Christian one, and not an archaic Jewish Law principle, is OBEY THE LAWS OF CAESAR. (Romans)
  
  I remember the ARC hearings about WT that were held in your country. It was brought out in those meetings, by the man acting as the head authority in those hearings and the lawyer questioning WT, that WT violated mandatory reporting laws in Victoria. I can't remember if it did so in your other provinces. But possibly in others as well, as WT referred absolutely zero allegations to the civil authorities from any province in Australia.
  
  From WT's branch in Australia the ARC had obtained at least 5000 internal files it held on reports of sexual child abuse, which held the names of over 1000 alleged sexual child abusers. Again, not one name in all of Australia was submitted to the civil authorities. By withholding WT BROKE THE LAW. It didn't obey Caesar. Victoria had mandatory reporting laws that included WT overseers. Like I said, I can't remember if your other provinces did at the time of those hearings.

Comment by JackSprat on 2019-05-12 21:49:36

Unfortunately the video you refer to wa of a faceless and nameless couple and could be completely fake.
this youtube video is a good example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE7jQeLPvBs

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