PIMO No More: Confessing Christ Before Men

– posted by meleti
 


(This video is aimed specifically at Jehovah's Witnesses, so I will be using the New World Translation all the time unless otherwise stated.)


The term PIMO is of recent origin and was coined by Jehovah’s Witnesses who find themselves being forced to hide their disagreements with JW doctrine and Governing Body policies from the elders (and those who would inform on them) for the sake of avoiding shunning in order to preserve their family relationships. PIMO is an acronym for Physically In, Mentally Out. It describes the state of those who are compelled to attend meetings and pretend to follow the Governing Body directives so that they will not be shunned, which means being treated as those who are spiritually dead.  Of course, Jesus never shunned anyone. He ate with sinners and tax collectors, didn’t he? He also told us to love our enemies.

Mentally, and probably spiritually and emotionally too, PIMOs are no longer part of the Organization, but to some degree, outside observers will still view them as Jehovah’s Witnesses. They probably can’t tell the difference, unless they too know what it is like to be a PIMO.

I know of one PIMO who is serving today as a congregation elder, yet who is now an atheist.  Isn’t that remarkable?! This video is not for a man like that nor for just anyone who would classify themselves as a PIMO. For example, there are those who remain in the Organization to some degree, but who have lost all faith in God and have turned agnostic or atheist.  Again, this video is not directed to them.  They have left the faith. There are others too who want to leave the organization and live life any way they wish, free of any restrictions from God or men, but who still wish to preserve their relationship with family and friends. This video is not meant for them either. The PIMOs I’m making this video for are those who continue to worship Jehovah as their Heavenly father and who view Jesus as their savior and leader. These PIMOs recognize Jesus, and not men, as the way and the truth and the life.  John 14:6

Is there a way for such ones to leave JW.org without suffering the loss of family and friends?

Let's be brutally honest here. The only way to preserve your relationship with all your family and friends when you no longer believe the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses is to lead a double life. You have to pretend to be fully in, like the atheist elder I just mentioned.  But living a lie is wrong on so many levels. There is real danger to your mental and emotional health. That kind of duplicity is bound to corrupt the soul and the stress of it could even make you physically sick. Most of all is the damage you will do to your relationship with Jehovah God. For instance, how can you continue to engage in the preaching work knowing that you are selling faith in a religion based on lies? How can you encourage people to join a religion you earnestly wish to leave? Wouldn’t that make you a hypocrite? What harm will you be doing to your hope of salvation? The Bible is pretty clear on this:

“But as for the cowards and those without faith…and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)


“Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.’” (Revelation 22:15)


The religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses has become a mind-controlling cult. It wasn’t always that way.  There was a time when there was no official policy to disfellowship someone even for gross sin. When I was a young man, we could openly disagree with policies and even some Bible understandings without fear that the “thought police” would descend upon us with threats of excommunication. Even when disfellowshipping was introduced in 1952, it didn’t result in the total shunning that is now a requirement of the process. Things have definitely changed. Nowadays, you don’t even have to be officially disfellowshipped to be shunned.

There is now what has been termed, “soft shunning.” This is the quiet, unofficial process of distancing oneself from anyone suspected of “not being fully in”; that is, not fully committed to the Organization. In any mind-controlling cult, it is not enough to refrain from criticizing the leadership. A member has to demonstrate overt support at every opportunity. You need look no further than the content of congregation prayers for evidence of this. When I was growing up in the Organization, I don’t ever recall hearing prayers where the brother praised the Governing Body and thanked Jehovah God for their presence and guidance. Yikes! But now it is common to hear such prayers.

In a field service car group, if anything positive is said about the Organization, you have to speak up and agree, adding your own praise. To remain silent is to condemn. Your fellow Jehovah's Witnesses have been conditioned to sense something is wrong, and they will react by quickly distancing themselves from you and talking behind your back to spread the word that something is wrong with you. They will inform on you at the first opportunity.

Sure, you may think you are still in, but you are definitely being handed your hat.

Breaking free is no easy thing. The process of waking up to the reality of the Organization can take months and even years. Our Heavenly Father is tolerant, knowing that we are flesh and need time to process things, to work things out so as to make an informed and wise decision. But at some point, a decision has to be made. What can we learn from Scripture to guide us to the best course of action for our individual circumstances?

Perhaps we could start by taking a look at one who was arguably the very first PIMO within the Christian community:

“Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.” (John 19:38)


The apostle John, writing decades after the destruction of Jerusalem and surely long after Joseph of Arimathea had died, spoke only of that man’s role in preparing Christ’s body for burial. Rather than praising him, he focused on the fact he was a secret disciple who kept his belief in Jesus as the Messiah hidden because he was afraid of the Jewish Governing Body.

The other three gospel writers who wrote prior to the destruction of Jerusalem make no mention of this. Instead, they highly praise Joseph.  Matthew says he was a rich man “who had also become a disciple of Jesus.” (Matthew 27:57) Mark says he was “a reputable member of the Council, who also himself was waiting for the Kingdom of God” and that he “took courage and went in before Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.” (Mark 15:43) Luke tells us that he “was a member of the Council, who was a good and righteous man”, one who had “not voted in support of their scheme and action.” (Luke 23:50-52)

In contrast with the other three gospel writers, John doesn’t heap any praise on Joseph of Arimathea. He doesn’t speak of his courage, nor his goodness and righteousness, but only of his fear of the Jews and the fact that he kept his discipleship hidden.  In the next verse, John speaks of another man who believed in Jesus, but also kept it hidden. “He [Joseph of Arimathea] was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes , about seventy-five pounds.” (John 19:39)

Nicodemus’ gift of myrrh and aloes was generous, but then again, he was also a rich man.  Though mentioning the gift, Luke pointedly tells us that Nicodemus came at night. Back then there were no street lights, so nighttime was a great time to travel if you wanted to keep your activities secret.

Only John names Nicodemus, though it is possible that he was the unnamed “rich young ruler” who asked Jesus what he had to do to inherit everlasting life. You can find the account at Matthew 19:16-26 as well as Luke 18:18-30. That ruler left Jesus saddened because he had many possessions and was unwilling to give them up to become a full-time follower of Jesus.

Now both Joseph and Nicodemus did a service to Jesus by wrapping his body according to Jewish custom and preparing it for burial with an abundance of expensive aromatic spices, but John seems more inclined to focus on the fact that neither man chose to reveal his faith openly. Both these men were rich and had a privileged station in life, and both were loathe to lose that status.  Apparently, that type of attitude didn’t sit well with John, the last of the Apostles.  Remember that John and his brother James were bold and fearless. Jesus called them “Sons of Thunder.” It was they who wanted Jesus to call down fire from heaven upon a village of Samaritans who had not received Jesus hospitably. (Luke 9:54)

Was John being too harsh on these two men? Was he expecting more than it was reasonable for them to give? After all, had they openly declared their faith in Jesus, they would have been thrown out of the ruling council and expelled (disfellowshipped) from the synagogue, and had to endure the ostracism that went with being one of Jesus’ disciples. They would likely have lost their wealth. In other words, they were unwilling to give up what was precious to them, holding on to it rather than openly confessing Jesus as the Christ.

Many PIMOs today find themselves in a similar situation.

It all boils down to a simple question: What do you want most? This is an either/or situation. Do you want to preserve your lifestyle? Do you want to avoid the loss of family above all else? Perhaps you’re afraid of losing your spouse who has threated to leave you if you continue on your course.

That is on the one hand, the “either” side. On the other hand, the “or”, will you put faith in God, faith that He will keep the promise made to us through his son?  I refer to this one:

“Peter began to say to him: “Look! We have left all things and followed you.” Jesus said: “Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life.”” (Mark 10:28-30)


“Then Peter said in reply: “Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit everlasting life.” (Matthew 19:27-29)


“But Peter said: “Look! We have left what was ours and followed you.” He said to them: “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the Kingdom of God who will not get many times more in this period of time, and in the coming system of things, everlasting life.”” (Luke 18:28-30)


So there you have the promise given to you by three separate witnesses. If you are willing to suffer the loss of all you hold to be precious, you will assure yourselves of far more than you have lost in this system of things, and while you will also suffer persecution, you will attain to the prize of everlasting life. I can attest to the truth of this.  I lost everything. All my friends, many going back decades—40 and 50 years. They pretty much all abandoned me. My late wife stuck with me, though.  She was a true child of God, but I know that is more the exception than the rule.  I lost my status, my reputation within the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and many people I thought were my friends. On the other hand, I have found real friends, people who were willing to give up everything to hold on to truth. Those are the kind of people I know I can count on in a crisis. Truly, I have found a wealth of friends on whom I know I can count in times of trouble. Jesus words have come true.

Again, what is it we truly want? A comfortable life within a community we’ve known for decades, perhaps since birth as was my case? That comfort is an illusion, one that is wearing thinner and thinner as time passes. Or do we want to secure a place in the Kingdom of God?

Jesus tells us:

“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:32-39)


Jesus didn’t come to bring us a comfortable, peaceful life. He came to cause division. He tells us that if we want him to stand up for us before God, we have to acknowledge him before men. Our Lord Jesus does not make this requirement of us because he is egotistical. This is a loving requirement. How can something that brings division and persecution be considered as a loving provision?

In fact, it is just that, and in three different ways.

First, this requirement to openly confess Jesus as Lord benefits you personally. By openly acknowledging Jesus Christ before your friends and family, you are exercising your faith. This is the case because you know you’re going to suffer tribulation and persecution as a result, yet you fearlessly do it anyways.

“For though the tribulation is momentary and light, it works out for us a glory that is of more and more surpassing weight and is everlasting; while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting.” (2 Corinthians 4:17, 18)


Who would not want such everlasting glory?  But fear can keep us from reaching out for that glory. In some ways, fear is the opposite of love.

“There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts fear out, because fear restrains us. Indeed, the one who is fearful has not been made perfect in love.” (1 John 4:18)

When we face our fear and proclaim our faith before men, specifically before family and friends, we overcome our fear by replacing it with love. This results in true freedom.

The purpose of organized religion is to exercise control over people, to rule over the flock. When men mislead people with lies, they depend on the gullibility of their flock to naïvely accept what they are told without checking the facts. When they begin to investigate and question, these false leaders become afraid and use another tool to maintain their control: fear of punishment. In this, the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses excels among modern Christian churches. Through years of carefully contrived indoctrination, they have managed to convince the entire flock to cooperate in punishing anyone who speaks out. The flock collaborates because its members have been conditioned to believe they are engaging in a loving provision of Jehovah God to shun any dissenter.  Fear of being shunned exercises a restraint and keeps the Governing Body in power. By giving in to this fear, by being afraid to suffer the consequences of being shunned, many PIMOs remain silent and so the Governing Body wins, at least in the short term.

There is a second way in which the requirement to confess Jesus publicly proves to be a loving provision. It allows us to show our love for our fellow Christians, both family and friends.

I began to wake up about 10 years ago. I only wish that 20 or 30 years ago someone had come to me with the scriptural evidence I now possess proving that the core doctrines of my former religion were false, or are false, and completely unscriptural. Imagine, if someone were to come to me today, a former friend from long ago, and reveal to me that he knew all these things back 20 or 30 years ago but was afraid to tell me about them. I can assure you that I would be very upset and disappointed that he  hadn’t had enough love for me to give me that warning back then. Whether or not I would have accepted it, I cannot say. I'd like to think I would have, but even if I hadn't and had shunned that friend, that would be on me. I would not be able to find fault with him now, because he had demonstrated the courage to risk his own well-being to warn me.

I think it's very safe to say that if you start to speak out about the truths you have learned, the vast majority of your friends and family will shun you. But two things are possible. One of those friends or family members, maybe more, may respond and you will have gained them. Think on this verse:

“My brothers, if anyone among YOU is misled from the truth and another turns him back, know that he who turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19, 20)


But even if no one listens to you, you will have protected yourself. Because at some point in the future, all the misdeeds of the Organization will be revealed along with the sins of all the other churches.

“I tell you that men will render an account on Judgment Day for every unprofitable saying that they speak; for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned.”” (Matthew 12:36, 37)


When that day comes, do you want your spouse, your children, your father or mother, or your close friends to turn to you and say, “You knew! Why didn’t you warn us about this?”  I don’t think so.

Some will find reason not to openly declare their faith in Jesus. They might claim that speaking out will destroy their family. They might even believe that elderly parents might die because of having a weak heart. Each one must make his or her own decision, but the guiding principle is love. We are not primarily concerned with life now, but with ensuring the eternal life and welfare of all our family and friends and everyone else for that matter. On one occasion, one of Jesus’ disciples expressed concern for family. Notice how Jesus replied:

“Then another of the disciples said to him: “Lord, permit me first to go and bury my father.”  Jesus said to him: “Keep following me, and let the dead bury their dead.”” (Matthew 8:21, 22)


To one without faith, that may seem harsh, even cruel, but faith tells us that the loving thing is to reach out for eternal life, not just for oneself, but for all.

The third way in which fulfilling the requirement to preach and confess the Lord is loving in the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses is that it may encourage others to do the same thing and help those still sleeping in indoctrination to wake up. There are many Jehovah’s Witnesses who are troubled by the changes in the Organization, especially regarding the emphasis on obedience to men. Others are aware of the child sexual abuse scandal which seems to be growing steadily and will not go away. Some have become aware of the doctrinal failings of the Organization, while others are being greatly troubled by the abuse they've experienced at the hands of self-important elders.

Despite all this, many are caught in a kind of mental inertia, afraid to take the leap because they see no alternative. However, were all those who consider themselves to be PIMO to stand up and be counted, it might create a groundswell which cannot be ignored. It might give courage to others to take similar steps. The power of the Organization over people is the fear of being shunned, and if that fear is taken away because the rank-and-file refuses to cooperate, then the power of the Governing Body to control the lives of others evaporates.

I'm not suggesting that this is an easy course of action. Quite the contrary. It may be the most difficult test you will ever face in your life. Our Lord Jesus made it very clear that a requirement of all those who will follow him is to face the same type of shame and tribulation that he faced. Recall that he went through all that so that he could learn obedience and be made perfect.

“Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.” (Hebrews 5:8-10)


The same goes for us.  If it is our desire to serve with Jesus as kings and priests in the Kingdom of God, can we expect anything less for ourselves than our Lord suffered on our behalf? He told us:

“And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me.  Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:32-39)


The New World Translation uses torture stake while most of the other Bible translations refer to it as a cross. The instrument of torture and death is not really relevant. What is relevant is what it represented in those days. Anyone who died nailed to a cross or stake, first suffered complete public humiliation and the loss of everything. Friends and family would disown that person shunning them publicly. The person was stripped of all his wealth and even his outer garments. Finally, he was forced to parade before all onlookers in a shameful procession carrying the instrument of his execution. What a horrible, shameful, and painful way to die. By referring to “his torture stake” or “his cross”, Jesus is telling us that if we are not prepared to suffer shame for his name sake, then we are not worthy of his name.

Opposers will heap shame, reproach, and lying gossip upon you. You need to take it all in as if mattered to you not at all. Do you care about yesterday’s garbage that you left on the roadside for collection? You should care about the slander of others even less.  Indeed, you look forward with joy to the prize our Father is holding out to us.  We are told by God:

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.” (Hebrews 12:1-3 ESV)


If you are a PIMO, please know that I am not telling you what you must do.  I’m sharing the words of our Lord, but the decision is yours since you must live with the consequences. It all boils down to what you want. If you seek the approval of our leader, Christ Jesus, you must make your decision based on love. Your love of God is your first love, but intertwined with that, is your love for your family and friends. What course of action best serves to benefit them eternally?

Some have decided to talk with their family and friends to discuss the things they have learned with the hope of convincing them of the truth.  That will inevitably lead to the elders contacting you with charges of apostasy.

Others have chosen to write a letter to renounce their membership in the Organization. If you do that, you might want to consider first sending letters or emails to all your relatives and friends explaining in detail your decision so that you have one last chance to reach them before the steel door of shunning slams down.

Others choose not to write a letter at all, and refuse to meet with the elders, viewing either action as an acknowledgement that those men still hold some authority over them, which they do not.

Still others choose a waiting game and a slow fadeaway in hopes of preserving family relationships.

You have the facts before you and you know your own situation. The direction from Scripture is clear, but it is up to each one to implement it as best fits his or her own situation, being guided as always by the overriding principle of love of God and of one’s fellow human, particularly those called to be children of God by their faith in Jesus Christ. (Galatians 3:26).

I hope this video has been helpful.  Please know that there is a growing community of faithful Christians going through the same tests and tribulations you are facing, but who also recognize what it means to be in Christ as the only means to be reconciled to Jehovah God.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you. (Matthew 5:11-12 BSB)

If you would like to join us online, remember that our meeting schedule is available at this link, [https://beroeans.net/events/] which I will also put in the description of this video. Our meetings are simple bible studies where we read from Scripture, then invite all to comment freely.

Thank you all for your support.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Archived Comments

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  • Comment by hirdy46 on 2022-06-29 04:34:56

    Thank you to everyone involved for yet another outstanding effort to help your former brothers and sisters in the Watchtower organisation - snared by the fowler
    Psalm 91

    Your totally right - this is all temporary and we must reach for citizenship of the kingdom even if it is costly initially we will gain long term
    ( Eternally )

    I realised a couple of years ago that being a Christian would be about saving myself
    Finding the group last year was amazing
    At last I felt at home

    And it is very true that it is those within your own household can be the greatest obstacle to true worship

    Based on my own experience I can only try to encourage people reading this to attend a meeting
    It’s the next step
    Your unsure about your direction - you watched the videos and now you’re here - two paths set before you

    May I also suggest if you would like to try a meeting to look at - what we believe - Beroean Pickets web site - prior to attendance
    You can ask questions in breakout rooms
    It’s your choice - don’t let JW take away your voice anymore

    For me there was nothing spiritual in a JW meeting
    An hierarchy was in operation - they never looked happy - they were always worried about the end and if they had done enough ?!? ( Grace not works ? )
    I know an Elder who saved food because of the expected tribulation - especially baked beans ( that was the joke )
    It is practical to a degree but is it spiritual ?!?

    Now I am free. Because we worship in spirit and truth
    I am in touch with my Heavenly Father through his son Jesus Christ, our saviour and I can feel the Holy Spirit working my life

    We pray for the kingdom because Jesus is coming to save us - he’s not going to save the Governing body - there’s been far better Christian’s in the last 2000 years than them
    They are delusional
    I’ll say it because it’s true !

    Jesus is returning for Me and you Don’t let the fowler snare you
    Focus on the Kingdom

    Amen

    ? Elaine

    • Reply by Berean72 on 2022-06-29 11:32:14

      Ciao fratello! Volevo solo dire che sono d'accordo con lei, ma per fare il punto su alcune questioni! Sono un fratello italiano, con sua moglie saremmo pronti a farlo e sostengo tutte le parole che Eric ha detto in questo post. Il vero problema è che in Italia facciamo davvero fatica a trovare fratelli che si riuniscano nella loro lingua. Questo è un grosso ostacolo! la lingua. Ho già affrontato questo argomento con il fratello Eric e ci eravamo promessi a vicenda di affrontare questo argomento e di approfondirlo! ora, dopo questo articolo, mi rendo conto che il Padre ha risposto alle preghiere! è tempo di creare un gruppo di fratelli italiani che possano definitivamente smettere di essere PIMO! Per fare questo o davvero bisogno dell'aiuto di tutti per trovare i fratelli italiani e permetterci di riunirci qui in un blog o in una pagina per incoraggiarci a vicenda insieme e fare i nostri punti biblici. Spero che ciò si realizzi il prima possibile. Sono pronto a farmi avanti per affrontare il problema e rendermi disponibile a far sì che tutto accada sacrificando il mio tempo, le mie conoscenze informatiche e quant'altro! Grazie se qualche fratello italiano volesse commentare e fosse d'accordo spero che possano lasciare un commento qui e possibilmente in futuro organizzare incontri nella nostra lingua Ti amo, tuo fratello in Cristo Walter!

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-06-29 13:10:16

        We have some Italian brothers who will join with you. They meet with us on Sunday at https://beroeans.net/events/

      • Reply by Aleks Kristiani on 2022-06-29 13:58:13

        also know Italian and I am from a small country that shares Italy with the Adriatic Sea ,, I am PIMO ,,, We join brother Erik on Sunday together

        • Reply by Berean72 on 2022-06-29 14:54:11

          ciao che felicità saperlo! mi dici a quale delle riunioni sarai presente? quella inglese o quella spagnola? grazie! scusami Eric se ho parlato in italiano...eheheh

          hello what a joy to know! can you tell me which of the meetings you will be present at? the English one or the Spanish one? thank you! excuse me Eric if I spoke in Italian... heheheh

          • Reply by Aleks Kristiani on 2022-06-29 15:09:35

            Questa domenica sono con il gruppo inglese, anche se non capisco bene l'inglese,,,,, con questo nome e cognome,,, benvenuti,,,,, ci uniamo tutti lì ,,,,,

          • Reply by Aleks Kristiani on 2022-06-29 15:21:09

            My e-mail adress:Alekskristiani@gmail.com

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-03 11:09:14

      Thank you for your support, Elaine. The schedule for our bible studies is updated regularly and is available here: https://beroeans.net/events/

  • Comment by mariamaria on 2022-06-30 03:43:55

    Thanks, Eric, very argumentatively.
    Still, one thing bothers me ... 30 years ago when I became a JW (as teenager) I had to endure the persecution of my parents who were devouted Catholics, they even kicked me out of the house. Then I believed I was experiencing the fulfillment of Matthew 10:16-21, 24-33. Based on the Bible, I then understood that the teachings of the Catholic Church are wrong, that Jehovah is God's name, and that I had to proclaim the gospel if I wanted God's approval (which was a major stumbling block between me and my family). Today, I am 45 and I realize that the interpretation of the gospel that I have preached for decades was wrong, as were all the other “exclusive” teachings of the JW.org. Fortunately, my husband and me also built relationships with the so-called "worldly people", so now as the PIMO for whom this speech is intended, we do not feel particularly excluded or shunned from the JW organization, because we have essentially withdrawn ourselves from a society of people who are interested in nothing but Gouverning body directives. In fact, we have no contact with JW, except with few friends who are PIMO as we are.
    I am now in a state of cognitive dissonance because I can’t figure out if I had Christ’s approval when my family persecuted me 30 years ago, do I have it now when I've realized that JW doctrins are wrong,....actually, have I ever had it at all?
    All I have sought all my life is the approval of God and Christ, and it seems to me that change is only constant (the consequences of such mental changes are a little more serious than not thinking about throwing away yesterday's garbage), but Christ's judgment doesn't change.
    I believe there are more brothers and sisters who have a similar experiences at JW.org, so I would love to know their thoughts.
    Thank you.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-01 20:59:08

      Join us for our bible studies and meet the type of sisters and brothers you seek: https://beroeans.net/events/

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-03 15:25:24

      Dear Mariamaria.
      My journey to Jesus Christ is similar to yours, so please allow me to briefly share my experience with you.
      .....................................
      In my thirties, I was basically an agnostic, but I knew that coincidence could not be behind all the things and complex systems around me (because of my education - cybernetics). The problem was the Christian mainstream religions, e.g. Catholic. I condemned their hypocritical actions, so the question of God remained open.
       
      Then I came into contact with JWs, and when thinking about the Bible and WT literature, I found that everything could be different. Some doubts about the teaching of the WT compared to the Bible remained, but I put them aside. I really wanted to believe that God exists. And so I traveled from Slovakia to Krakow, Poland, and I was baptized there in 1988 during convention at the age of 38. I have worked within the WT for about 12 years, but at the end of these years I have seen more and more problems in the teaching and functioning of the Organization. In these years, I have also found myself in a state of cognitive dissonance. I could no longer look people in their eyes and tell them what I don't believe. Eventually I stopped going to meetings.
       
      Gradually I moved away from God. But Jehovah did not leave me and through a series of powerful experiences He brought me back to Jesus Christ. Only then did I really believe.
      Again I found my first old Bible, almost lost, placed somewhere among the books and began to study it intensively, this time without any literature. And everything suddenly started to make sense, and I was getting answers to previously shelved inconsistencies. God led me to my Lord.
      I finally "accidentally" found Eric's website about 4 years ago, but it was no accident either. I'm happy to be here.
      .....................................
       
      “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!” (Romans11:33)
      Only later I realized that at the time I met JWs, there was no other way to bring me to Jesus, only through WT. And I am grateful to God for that, because I learned a lot from the Bible there, even if it was not all correct. But it opened the way for me to Christ (John 14:6; Acts 9:2).
       
      Did it take long for God to bring me and you to His Son? Did we have God's approval while we were operating within the WT? It is not important. God saw us then and He sees us now. And the fact that He led us to His Son is a sign that He loves us and that He cares about us. After all, we are His children.
      Each of us is different. Everyone has different possibilities, different assumptions, different experiences, different thinking. But our heavenly Father knows us in detail and knows what and when He will do with us (Phil 2:13).
       
      By faith I am saved (John 11:25-27; Galatians 3:26). I am sealed by the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22). I am justified by faith (Romans 5:1). This is my approval based on faith in Jesus Christ and the love of my heavenly Father. My cognitive dissonance is gone. And so daily I live life with my God and with His Son, my Savior, Lord and brother, Jesus Christ (John 14:23).
       
      Dear Mariamaria, God led also you through different paths to where you belong, to his Son. He saw you in every moment of your life and He knew exactly where He would lead you at the appropriate time. And when He has brought you there, then have no doubts about His approval. The fear of approval can be a remnant of indoctrination that can remain in each of us to some extent from the constant WT emphasis - work, work, work. It is good to remember a verse that I like and that Eric also mentioned in his excellent article - love casts out fear (1 John 4:18).
       
      You are God's beloved daughter and Jehovah is your loving Father. You believe in Jesus Christ. By faith you do and will do good works. If you definitively separate from WT, your cognitive dissonance will also disappear. No PIMO - no cognitive dissonance. Your mind will be healed and will no longer be divided, but fixed in one direction - on Jesus Christ. Our Lord guides you and will guide you and will not lose you, because you are His sheep and He is your good shepherd. You are in good hands, there is nothing to fear.
       
      God bless you, Mariamaria, and your husband.
      Frankie

    • Reply by Fani on 2022-07-04 04:16:57

      Oui Maria j'ai été dans ta situation.
      Baptisée à 15 ans, excommuniée à 63 ans.
      Est ce que pendant toutes ces années Dieu m'a ignorée ?
      Je ne le pense pas.
      Tout ce que j'ai fait, je l'ai fait par amour pour Dieu. Je me suis toujours sentie proche de Dieu ; ses lois m'ont aidée dans ma vie.
      J'étais dans l'erreur oui, mais aujourd'hui aussi je ne comprends que partiellement.
      Je pense que l'essentiel c'est de reconnaître que nous devons tout au Père Céleste et à son Fils qui nous a redonné la vie, ce que nous avons toujours reconnu.

      Je dois reconnaître que mon excommunication a été un choc et une sidération (j'étais un peu naïve, je ne pensais pas qu'on pouvait excommunier un chrétien sincère qui aimait Dieu et n'avait commis aucun péché grave), mais une chose est sûre : comme Frankie et d'autres sur ce site, à présent je n'ai aucun regret, aucune dissonance cognitive, aucun sentiment de culpabilité. Je demande à Dieu de me pardonner ces années d'aveuglement et je sais qu'il est bon et me pardonne.
      Aujourd'hui je me sens nette, simple, claire et aux côtés de Christ et de son Père.
      Je fais de mon mieux même si c'est loin d'être parfait.

      Sois confiante. Dieu t'a reconnue et Christ t'a éclairée, c'est donc la preuve que tu as son Esprit Saint.
      Recherchons malgré tout une meilleure connaissance et marchons fidèlement selon ce Christ nous donne de comprendre.

      Toute mon affection Maria.

    • Reply by Ad_Lang on 2022-07-15 05:39:48

      I have learned to draw a distinction between the organisation on one hand, and the individuals at the other. I do not believe Jesus supports any particular human organisation, but he most certainly supports honest individuals who seek God through him.

      I had left a Dutch reformed church due to the hypocrisy I saw: things were happening that even as non-Christian I wouldn't approve of. One particular thing I once found out was quite frankly repulsive. The Witnesses did help me to have a fresh look at the Bible. Unfortunately for them, I studied a bit more thoroughly than they anticipated and my parents have been waiting all that time for me to come out again, knowing how "independent" my thinking is (if not rebellious at times).

      There were a few things I quickly learned. One is that you cannot convert people; you can only help people convert themselves. It changed the way I approached people, and often I would start a conversation at the door saying that I would like to share something I had learned. In the approx. 10 years since first contact, I had a few Bible studies and I think I approached that by sort of evading or ignoring things I didn't agree with, to putting it in a different context. I suppose I always had that way of working my way around inaccurate teaching, rather than accepting and working with it.

      My attitude changed to be vocal and pro-active, when I was (again) confronted with the child sexual abuse issue within the organisation through a news website in 2020. I read a Dutch research report and found that JWs refused to cooperate with the authorities as God's minister to deal with evil (Romans 13:1-4). I got in touch with a Dutch charity called "Reclaimed Voices", that works to defend victims in this particular setting.

      They have a page that links to the report (in Dutch), and also embeds a documentary by a well-known ex-JW about the problem:
      https://reclaimedvoices.org/en/2020/01/26/witness-sexual-abuse-and-willingness-to-report-within-the-community-of-Jehovah/

      They don't seem to have been active for a while, but I'd say they achieved much of what they were aiming for. The documentary contains some of the more chilling experiences.

      I think the most common denominator is that much of the deceit comes from not telling the whole truth. I'd reckon most of the regular members (and even many elders) don't have much of a clue about what's really going on behind the scenes.

      Ultimately, it was the call in Revelation 18:4 that was a strong motivator for coming out. Quietly overlooking the wrongdoing that I had seen evidence of is a form of approval, if not participation, and Rev 18 does warn us that staying put will cause us to share in both sin and resulting plagues.

      • Reply by mariamaria on 2022-07-31 09:49:21

        Thanks for encouragement. I really appreciate it.
        Somehow, none answered my question - did the person who suffered as a Jehovah's witness because he/she THEN understood that it was the only true way (exit from the Rimocatholic Church or Communist Party or else; God's name is Jehovah; there is no Hell; God's kingdom will fill the earth; separation from the world that Jesus spoke about) fulfilled Matthew 10:34-42, or not.
        I am speaking from the perspective of PIMO Jehovah Witness in Eastern European country where people were shot and went to prison for 20 years, because they understood that in any other way they would have compromised Christ's principle of "not being part of the world", I am not talking about mental suffering due to not attending higher education or not associating with people of other denominations.
        Thanks for the invitation, Eric, we've been listening to your meetings and I have to admit I didn't like how you and Wendy handled your differences with Jim Penton - actually, reminded me on jw.org pattern ... hope you've been able to resolve them in the meantime, in the spirit of Galatians 5:22,23.
        I am not looking for Christians who would fit me, but those who had the spirit of the Christian congregation in the 1st century.
        Hvala, Fani, provukla sam tvoj post kroz google translate, nadam se da ćeš i ti razumjeti moj.
        Best,

        • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-31 16:51:33

          Hi MariaMaria,

          There are facts concerning what happened with Jim that you are unaware of, but to say more on a public forum would be inappropriate. Suffice it to say that we've patched everything up and are back on good terms. Of course, we want everyone to have freeness of speech, but giving everyone freeness of speech also opens the door to being offended when someone exercises that freedom.

          Eric

        • Reply by Frankie on 2022-08-03 18:46:25

          Dear MariaMaria.
          I have one comment about your question about Matt 10:34-42.

          We are not competent to answer this question with a simple yes or no, because any answer would carry the seed of judgment of others.

          If you are PIMO and therefore you are mentally out, if our Lord has set you free and you found your savior, then run after him, do not look back, do not worry about what is not essential.
          Those who suffered, either for Christ or for the WT, will be justly answered by our Lord at the appointed time, because:
          "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may take away what he has done through the body, whether it was good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)

          And you, MariaMaria, run after your heavenly calling like our brother Paul: "But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus . (Philippians 3:13-14; Hebrews 3:1).

          Shalom. Frankie

  • Comment by Fani on 2022-07-02 13:00:45

    Je suis tout à fait d'accord, nous devons tous à un moment donné marquer notre position.

    Néanmoins, je pense qu'on peut peut-être insister davantage sur le fait que les situations de chacun sont différentes.
    Dieu a bien voulu faire des concessions en raison de la dureté des coeurs des hommes :
    «C'est à cause de la dureté de votre cœur que Moïse vous a permis de divorcer de vos femmes; au commencement, ce n'était pas le cas". (Matthieu 19.8)
    Les hommes peuvent aussi faire des concessions parfois pour la bonne cause.
    L'exemple de Naaman montre que Dieu voit le cœur et tient compte des circonstances :
    "Cependant, que l'Eternel veuille pardonner ceci à ton serviteur: quand mon seigneur entre dans le temple de Rimmon pour s'y prosterner, il s'appuie sur ma main et je m'y prosterne aussi. Que l'Eternel veuille bien me pardonner, à moi ton serviteur, lorsque je me prosternerai dans le temple de Rimmon!» (2 Rois 5.18)
    Elisée lui dit: «Pars dans la paix.»

    Beaucoup de frères n'ont pas le coeur tourné vers l'organisation mais ils font de leur mieux pour amener leur famille vers Christ. Une fois excommuniés, c'est très difficile de communiquer sur les choses spirituelles.

    Pour ma part, j'ai été excommuniée et les anciens m'ont reprochée d'en avoir parlé à certains frères (très peu mais malgré tout, tous les anciens ont eu personnellement leur lettre).
    En fait, je regrette de ne pas en avoir parlé plus à d'autres amis très chers. J'ai voulu les ménager, ne pas leur créer de problèmes, en cela j'ai eu tort car maintenant c'est impossible de leur expliquer.

    Merci Eric pour ton travail et unie à vous dans la foi.

    Nicole

    • Reply by ZbigniewJan on 2022-07-03 08:07:51

      Chère soeur Nicole !!! Merci pour votre commentaire, pour votre chaleur et votre empathie. J'écris en français pour la première fois (avec l'aide de Google, bien sûr) Je suis polonais, vous connaissez peut-être ma langue ? Je vous salue cordialement et j'attends avec impatience vos prochaines réflexions, les commentaires de Sr. Christ. Votre frère Zbigniew

      • Reply by Fani on 2022-07-04 03:02:00

        Merci Zbigniew de ton effort pour répondre en français.
        Comme dit Eric nous n'avons pas le don des langues, mais Google traduction fait du bon travail.
        Je ne connais pas le polonais mais quel plaisir de pouvoir communiquer avec un frère polonais ! Merci pour tes réflexions spirituelles.
        A bientôt
        Nicole

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-03 11:07:00

      Hi Nicole, You make me wish we still had the gift of tongues so that I could read your comments in thenative French instead of using the auto-translate function.

  • Comment by mattlunsford on 2022-07-02 13:02:16

    The teaching that all non-witnesses would be destroyed at Armageddon is what was most disturbing to me. When I realized that God is not waiting for the world to be converted to Christianity in order to bring the end, then it made God seem unloving to destroy billions of people without a chance to put faith in Christ. I then began to find scriptures that indicated God's love and mercy for all. Also my curiosity in early watchtower writings and the organization's avoidance and covering of their own history led me to seek out copies of early watchtower publications and I eventually found a pdf version of Studies in the Scriptures. I could definitely not find any on watchtower library... The chapter on the Ransom for All was like new light to me but in reality, this is a fundamental teaching in the scriptures. Sadly for me, since I was so badly indoctrinated and mentally loaded down with false propaganda, I could not see the forest through the trees. Scriptures that helped: Hebrews 2:9 "so that by the grace of God he might taste death for EVERYONE, 1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Also when Jesus spoke to people who would not put faith in him even after seeing him perform miracles, he did not condemn or judge them. Matt 11:22,23 Granted, Jesus used strong language to show their stubbornness but he indicated the hope of future life and judgement for them on the day of judgement. Lets think about this, what could be more faithless than to reject the messiah after seeing such awesome miracles? Yet we see the most mercy and love shown in this and other examples. I think this is due to Jesus not having come to the earth to Judge the world but to to save the world through his sacrificial death. John 12:17 The apostle Paul also warned Christians to not Judge anything until the appointed time. 1 Cor 4:5 I could go on and on forever. I will just conclude by saying that I still remember the eeery silence after I commented at the meeting that "we all share the same heavenly father." The social avoidance came soon after and I was floored by the confused response. It was almost as if they had rejected Jesus and God by claiming to only be their friends at best. I was not rejected by everyone but it was like a soft reproof. I eventually concluded that JW's are a group of lost Christians who are unwittingly leading people away from Jesus and God. Ultimately, I gladly left by quietly severing all association. I will never go back and I accept my error. I blame myself mostly but who can deny their dogmatic false teachings and intellectual bullying. I am very happy now that I have found freedom in Jesus. I realize that I should never become lawless and should use that freedom for good and not bad. I have some days of depression considering the time that I lost but overall I am happy and content. Even though our human tendecy is to trust people in authority, I have learned that we must be skeptical and prove things to ourselves. This goes for anyone: teachers, doctors...etc Thanks to God for helping me break free and focus on the true teachings of Jesus. Now I am a witness of Jesus Christ.

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-03 10:32:00

      Yes, dear Mattlunsford, we are witnesses of Jesus Christ: Matt 10:18; Mark 13:9; Luke 24:47,48; John 1:15; John 5:37; John 8:18; John 15:26,27; Acts 1:8; Acts 5:32; Acts 10:39; Acts 10:43; Acts 11:26; Acts 13:31; Acts 22:15; Acts 22:20; Acts 23:11; Acts 26:16; 1 Cor 1:6; 1 Tim 2:6,7; 2 Tim 1:8; 2 Tess 1:10; 1 Pet 5:1; 2 Pet 1:16; 1 John 1:2; 1 John 4:14; 1 John 5:9,11; Rev 1:9; Rev 12:17; Rev 17:6; Rev 19:10; Rev 20:4.
      Frankie

      • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-03 11:05:24

        I appreciate having this exhaustive list. Thank you, Frankie.

        • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-03 13:21:05

          Excellent article Eric. Yummy!

          • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-04 08:33:22

            Thank you so much, Frankie.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-03 11:04:55

      Nice reasoning, Mattlunsford. Good to have you with us.

  • Comment by ZbigniewJan on 2022-07-03 07:58:38



    Thank you, dear Brother Eric, for bringing up a very important topic. The confession of our Lord Jesus is a fundamental matter of our salvation. Acts 10: 9,13 "So if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe with all your heart that God raised him, you will be saved." "And whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. " This is the beginning of leaving the religion we believed to be the only true one. If we have been indoctrinated in this way for several years, the mental process of emerging from human bondage must be painful. Everyone goes through it differently. The psalmist wrote under divine inspiration that fear of man is a snare for man. Before we confess Christ to men, first our Father trains us, and when He trains us He brings us to His Son John 6:45. As we draw closer to our Lord, He gives us the support of the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit acts on us, our love for God, Jesus, and for our brothers and sisters with whom we feel Christ's unity grows. The Holy Spirit gives us strength and courage. Then the fear of people weakens, we can for ap. With Paul say, 1 Cor. 4: 3, "I am least concerned with whether I will be judged by you or by any human tribunal." Ostracism and the threat of death in Armageddon are tools in the hands of authoritarian people. These are brutal tools in the hands of men who call themselves Christ's Brothers. When we learn about these mechanisms, we begin to understand that our previous acquaintances and friendships were conditional (the condition is membership of the Organization and recognition of the leadership of the Governing Body. Here is a digression - I remember such a term in the countries behind the Iron Curtain, in the post-Soviet countries: "the leading role of the party ") Since our friendships were conditional, they do not have great social and emotional strength and value. Let us build relationships today, the foundation of which is our Lord, our owner and protector, our shepherd. The fellowship of brothers and sisters who believed that they are God's children gives us joy, strength and courage. We were made to live with other people. We need a sense of community of thought and faith like water and oxygen. Thank you Eric for getting to know our brothers and their comments through your hospitality on the website. Let us repeat with Jesus: Courage, I have conquered the world !!! Dear Brothers and Sisters, I cordially greet you !!!!! Zbigniew

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-03 10:54:08

      Dear Zbyszek, I also remember very well the times behind the former Iron Curtain. Yes, they gradually created a totalitarian WT Party headed by a central GB Committee :o)
      Thank you for the excellent thoughts in your comment.
      Frankie

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-03 11:02:04

      So good to hear from you, Zbigniew. Very encouraging words!

  • Comment by Psalmbee on 2022-07-04 22:47:10

    Very good article MVEW, it will also prove to be timely for those who are struggling and in some cases suffocating from the grips of remaining in a PIMO position. I liked the way you distinguished certain definitions or even classifications of the actual types of PIMO's there are, of course every situation can be different. I think it's fair to say that all PIMO's do not, and actually should not think alike.

    What is your view on those that continue to claim PIMO but in reality have no plans on fully awakening or shall we say "come out of her my people"?

    As you well know I'm sure, there are thousands and maybe even millions that would never recognize or admit to being PIMO but in reality, those would be the most hardcore. Just wondering if you have a handle any such witnesses.


    Psalmbee, (Ps 10:4)

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-05 10:27:14

      I think that the majority who are PIMO are not really looking for the Christ. They are just trying to preserve family relationships, but if they were disfellowshipped, they would not pursue the freedom of the Christ, but would just live their lives as they wished, turning to atheism, agnosticism, of joining another religion for the social benefits. The article wasn't written for them, but for those seeking to be adopted children of God.

      • Reply by ZbigniewJan on 2022-07-05 16:12:58

        Hello Brother Eric !!! I am glad that this topic you discussed in your lecture sparked such an instructive discussion. Indeed, the concept of PIMO does not apply to everyone leaving the JW congregation. Many people value relationships with these conditional friends more than with God and his Son. Sometimes it is comformism, but we'd better not judge them, just give them a witness. Our task is to testify and show the Way of Christ. Although we would worship very, very much, we will not draw our loved ones to the Lord Jesus. It must be allowed by Father John 6:65 "... no one can come to Me unless it is given to him by the Father" I had two friends who died. One of them woke up from JW's deception, but did not believe that he could be an adopted child of God, although the judgments of God and Jesus may surprise me, and may it be. Before his death, my second friend loosened his contacts with me. He was closely associated with the organization of JW. He thought almost as we do, but he could not give glory to Christ. I think 2 Corinthians 4: 4 applies here. The radiance of Satan blinds people to the radiance of Christ's glory. Eric, be well, full of faith and support from the Lord !!!! Zbigniew

        • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-06 09:04:01

          Hi brother ZbigniewJan. I do hope that this video helps many to make a clean break with JW.org. I believe that if all the PIMOs left today, the whole shunning problem would go away because there would be so many that the Governing Body would lose its hold over the flock.

          • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-06 18:30:17

            Luke 14:26.

  • Comment by PierrotSud on 2022-07-05 05:30:04

    Je vais suivre l'exemple de Fani, pour t'aider à comprendre le don les langues. :)

    Merci Eric d'aborder cette question qui nous taraude tous, nous qui apprenons à avoir et développer notre amour pour Christ, notre soumission et notre adoration envers lui.
    Je me rends compte depuis mon éveil, par mon étude personnelle et avec mon groupe que je n'avais rien construit avec Jésus, aucun liens.
    Or çà doit être la base du Christianisme, non? Etre des adorateurs de Jésus?

    J'ai pensé à un autre PIMO, mais c'est de ma propre réflexion.
    Est ce que l'apôtre Pierre n'a pas été un PIMO à plusieurs reprises?
    Certes il a eu la peur de l'homme, mais est ce que PIMO n'est pas aussi de la peur de l'homme?
    Par exemple, il a renié trois fois le Christ, il avait peur d'être reconnu comme Chrétien, un apostat, quelqu'un qui suit le Christ.(Mathieu 26:69-75)
    Le récit où il mange avec les Chrétiens Gentils pour rejoindre des Chrétiens d'origine Juive, par crainte d'être reconnu comme quelqu'un des nations. (Galates 2:11-14)

    Je ne cherche pas à juger mes frères et sœurs qui sont PIMO.
    Pour chacun c'est vraiment terrifiant.
    J'ai eu peur au début, et j'ai encore peur.
    J'ai la peur de l'homme aussi.
    Par ton article tu donnes une "impulsion" pour faire le pas. Merci.

    Je ne renierai pour rien au monde ma nouvelle relation avec Jésus Christ et son Père (attention j'ai dit "renier" et je m'appelle "Pierre", hum...).

    Je suis devenu un "POMO", et j'ai coupé tout liens avec l'organisation, en n'ayant plus de contact avec qui que ce soit de l'organisation. De ma famille charnelle, j'ai encore quelques contacts avec mes parents, mais mes frères me rejettent comme apostat, et mes parents ne comprennent pas car ils restent endoctrinés par l'organisation, et c'est confortable pour eux.
    Ce qui est réjouissant, c'est que ma femme m'a rejoint et progresse à son rythme.
    Je suis content de sortir ma fille de cette organisation et de l'aider à créer une nouvelle relation avec Jésus et Jéhovah sans passer par une organisation.

    Et donc, maintenant il ne me manque plus que le tampon "Approuvé". C'est bientôt.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-05 10:34:04

      Good for you, Peter. I'm so very happy to read that you and your family have taken this step to free yourselves from false religion and are embracing the freedom of Jesus Christ. What we need now is a zoom bible study group. We have one in English, Spanish, German, and soon Italian. What we do in our groups is pick a book from the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) and read from the start. We advance only a few verses a week, because we read and then open the floor to comments. There is no one who is the teacher, but all are teachers sharing their insights and research with the group. It is very encouraging. After the hour is up, we close with prayer and then we chat about things that concern us. It is very upbuilding.

    • Reply by ZbigniewJan on 2022-07-05 15:33:13

      Dear Peter !!! Thank you for your speech. You are a great builder for me. I congratulate you on being unanimous with your wife. Of course, everyone represents themselves before God personally, and you cannot force your loved ones to act for which they are not ready. In addition, we forget with bowls that it is our Father who attracts his son, and not ourselves John 6:44. I wish you to show love to your wife. Leave the rest to our Father. I have a similar situation. From March 2020 I left JW church. I had a 3-hour interview with the church coordinator and introduced my current beliefs. Since then, I have been a non-practicing Jehovah's Witness. I have become a witness of our Lord Jesus. I do not care about leaving the church, because I do not have a document of enrollment in this church. many times before I left the congregation, publicly proclaimed our Pane. I publicly proclaimed the Lord Jesus as my savior and God. No one in the congregation, after my appointment, called to save me from my apostasy and, consequently, from death. I am already dead to them, just as Jews treat relatives who leave the Mosaic faith. My wife understands me, shows empathy, supports me in many ways, but does not break her connection with the JW congregation. I pray that my Father will draw my beloved wife, son, daughter and granddaughter to our Lord Jesus. Let us trust in God who made us known, let us trust our Shepherd to guide us well. Let us rejoice in our brotherhood, unity in Christ. Dear Peter, may our Father and our Lord be with you !!! Your brother Zbigniew








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      • Reply by PierrotSud on 2022-07-09 15:30:03

        Thank you Zbigniew for your kind message.

        You are extremely brave for expressing your faith to everyone, for telling the truth about Jesus and our hope.
        It must have been hard for you to endure the rejection of your brothers and sisters and the pressure of the coordinator. But you have the truth. You have expressed with your mouth the faith you have in your heart (Rom 10:9-10).

        Like the Jews of the first century, the brothers and sisters systematically reject anything that does not correspond to what the Central College orders them to do. But they don't all do it voluntarily.
        You are courageous because you have demonstrated your faith and understanding. This extraordinary! The Holy Spirit has certainly helped you to have all your faculties to express yourself before all our brothers and sisters.
        You know, it's really a painful experience that we all go through.

        I wasn't sure of myself, you know, because there's a lot of doubt when you're confronted with an autocratic organization that's well established by its authoritarian power. A few months ago I didn't know what my wife would do and I didn't pressure her. She saw me do it but time allowed her to see positive changes in me, so there you go.

        It's hard to get the whole family out of the organization at the same time.
        You probably know the expression, which the organization loves, "we live in a Spiritual Paradise". Who would leave a heavenly place?
        That's what we have to face with our children, to get them out of it
        They use a lot of energy using the media, cartoons, etc... to attract and keep these children inside. So let's Prayerfully ask God to grant us His Holy Spirit to help our family look at these things as the work of Satan. It is a "Potemkin Village", an optical illusion.
        I will pray for you and your family.

        With all my affection, brother.
        Pierre

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-11 06:29:30

      Dear Pierrot Sud, I really like your comment. You are on the right path (John 14:6) and I believe that Jesus is in you (John 17:21). Let me add something to your last sentence:
       “And so, now all I'm missing is the "Approved" stamp.”

      You're waiting for something you already have. You know that our approval does not come from works but from faith, and from your comment I feel great faith in Jesus Christ. It's important.

      The word "approval" is very often used in the JW environment in connection with deeds of work for WT. Salvation by faith is very strongly suppressed by the Organization. We have all been indoctrinated by it and it remains in each of us more or less.

      I keep thinking of the words that Jesus said to Martha, which I'm sure you know very well:
       “Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” (John 11:25-26)

      FAITH

      “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! ” (2 Cor 13:5)
      Test through faith.

      We are justified by faith, not by works (Romans 5:1; Eph 2:8-9). And if we are justified, we are approved. Or would God not approve and justify us at the same time? We are God's children (1 John 3:1) and we have received the earnest of the holy spirit by which we are sealed (2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; Eph 4:30). And this seal is also our approval based on faith.

       “I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing”. (John 15:5).
      If Christ is in you, do not wait for approval, because you are already approved, stamped by seal of holy spirit, and all the good things you do, you do by the power of Christ (Romans 15:18; Heb 13:21).

      God bless you Pierre.
      Frankie

      • Reply by PierrotSud on 2022-07-21 04:31:59

        Hello frankie,

        Thank you a lot for your sincerely encouragement.
        I am totally agree with you. With the study, with my brothers and sisters like you, with the help of the spirit, i understand the real words of Jesus. When he speaks with the Samaritain, he spoke her a simply of the hope with simply words, like for our.
        To be approved, you are right, we don't need to remove an registration.
        But, i spoke about the terms "be approval", and it's not the good terms.
        In my mind, i would like that all the JW Brothers and sisters know that i don't anymore Jehovah's witness officially. And my Family too.
        I compare that with brothers and sisters were in other church since coming to JW organisation, like Catholic Church, etc...
        Their names are writing in "the book of church".
        For me my name is writing in the "book of Watchtower"
        I want to remove my name from this book.
        I know that my spirit and my heart is for Jesus and my father.
        I know that i have not anymore have to do with JW Organization and i don't anymore participate with her.
        But it's like a symbol. So perhaps i pursuit something futile things.
        If i understood, my name is write in the "good book", so Jehovah accepted me like his child.
        You are right Frankie. I understand now that this fight is not really necessary.

        Pierre

        • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-26 15:46:31

          Dear Pierre,
          As you wrote, your name is written in the Book of Life through faith in Jesus Christ (Col 3:2-3) and you are a child of God because:
          1. “To all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12)
          2. “For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.” (Gal 3:26)
          3. “Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2)

          But all of this you certainly know very well. Your conscience will tell you in what manner to erase your name from the "WT book". After all - "what fellowship has light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14, 17-18)
          God bless you and your dear ones.
          Frankie

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-07-05 18:54:51

    To all the minorities who are PIMO.

    I am one of you, I recognise I am a child of God and a brother of Christ.

    Remember one thing if you get disfellowshipped, how can you help your family members to reason from the Scriptures with you? You will be a leper in their eyes.

    So to the minorities of PIMO, who recognise they ARE a child of God and Christ’s brother, use Jesus method in making people and JW think… Asking questions… What do you think? Reason with them.

    As a PIMO who has family members who are elders and CO’s, and pioneer's who reasons from the scripture’s with them, hang in there, THEY know who you are and what you think of GB.

    A time will come when true followers of Christ will stand up for him. He will make us stand. Jehovah has selected me and given me to his dear son to work on me, when the time is right, he will let me know.

    Remember Naaman 2Kings 5:18 But may Jehovah forgive your servant for this one thing: When my lord goes into the house of Rimʹmon to bow down there, he supports himself on my arm, so I have to bow down at the house of Rimʹmon. When I bow down at the house of Rimʹmon, may Jehovah, please, forgive your servant for this.” 19 At this he said to him: “Go in peace.” After he departed from him and had traveled for some distance.

    Naaman was PIMO, but he stayed UNTIL the right time came… And it will.

    You got me thinking Eric. Many thanks ?

    • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-07-06 03:48:48

      James, that was encouraging for me as PIMO. It is hard wearing two hats, but we also need support for the sake of family. It must be pretty obvious to the BOE that, as an ex elder, something is not right, but no one bothers to ask the questions, at least not yet. Your encouragements will help me to tread carefully as I make my way to wherever it leads.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-06 09:05:10

      Thanks for sharing those insights, James.

  • Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-07-07 12:45:19

    Please do not condemn those of us who are PIMO. We have reached that stage but have not lost our fundamental beliefs, as some comments might suggest. While I agree that some may well turn to atheism, another church, etc, much of this is down to the mess that has been brought on us.
    I was brought up RC, left when I was 21, because I could see nothing in it. However many years as a JW have contributed to my brain being scrambled and my relationship with God being messed up by the teachings of JWs. It will take a long time to recover from that. My heart wants to do what is right, but my head is still confused and has spent recent years searching for truth, followed by proving the untruth of JW.Org.
    I am not an agnostic, but it is a long process which probably demands more trust in God and Jesus, something I felt for a while as a JW, but something that has been seriuosly badly affected by the JW Organisation.
    Will I recover ? I hope so, as I hope for the same for anyone else in the same situation.
    Thank you, though, Eric, for your continued, unwavering support for good things on this site. I dread to think where I might have been without you.
    Christian Love
    Leonardo

    • Reply by rudytokarz on 2022-07-07 17:24:20

      Thank you for the above note as I am in the same position. As a 3rd generation JW and ex-elder who has been in the FADE mode for a few years, it is difficult to dig through everything doctrinally although I am understanding more and more by simple Bible reading and study. To simply make a break with all family and friends is not how I choose to move forward as of now.
      I find that in most situations, doctrine rarely comes up when associating with JWs anyway. When it does, I make some general comments emphasizing the scriptures as authority although I usually mention the the GB is 'doing the best with what they have received, just like the rest of us'. In those cases, I never say that I agree with a GB dictate if I don't agree.
      Since no elders have ever approached me regarding not turning in time (its been almost 4 years), I don't think that I am high on there 'to do' list...which is good. I can continue to read the scriptures and pray for the spirit to guide me and slowly come into the real light. When I feel the time is right, if that occurs, I will let it be known to all.
      Rudy

    • Reply by Ad_Lang on 2022-07-15 05:10:13

      I don't think you need to worry about any of us judging you. Judging belongs to Jesus (Joh 5:22-23). I haven't seen any evidence that Jesus delegated this role to any of us. In fact, in several places, Jesus speaks against judging. The apostles have spoken likewise and refrained from judging.

      Secondly, not all is being said when mentioning the need to "confess Jesus", as we find in Romans 10:9. There are tact and discretion. I'm quite straightforward myself, but sometimes it is wise to be a bit more subtle, for instance when we have family and friends within the organisation. I have found that sometimes, I was made to wait before speaking and I'm convinced that at times I was guided to do my thing at the right moment - often later than I intended, and with better results.

      Jesus did say he came to cause division even between families, but never said we should pursue division. Neither did he. The division was and never will be the purpuse, but an inevitable consequence of speaking truth, because many refuse to accept it. Just like Cain refused to accept he had to change his ways to say the least. Same counted for the religious leaders in Jesus' days. Many more examples can be found.

      Note that you have to sanctify the Christ in your own heart first. Then you will find the attitude, and only after that will you be at the point of gaining knowledge and making the defense with help of the holy spirit (1 Pe 3:15).

      Do not be afraid of lacking knowledge. Jesus promised you will get to know him if you continuously observe his words in everything you do (John 14:21,23,26).

  • Comment by Roberto 62 on 2022-07-08 16:40:08

    Sono anch'io un testimone di Geova, peraltro inattivo verso l'organizzazione, perché nel lontano gennaio 2017 inviai una lettera agli anziani della mia congregazione,con la richiesta di potere avere piena libertà di parola sia in sala del regno che in predicazione.
    La lettera in sostanza chiedeva questo agli anziani,ma tale autorizzazione a predicare e a parlare secondo il mio intendimento della parola di Dio,non è mai arrivata,e ci sono stati diversi incontri con due anziani e il sorvegliante viaggiante,col preciso invito da parte degli anziani di riportarmi alla "retta via".
    Tengo a precisare che simili dubbi nascevano già prima del periodo in cui Jeoffrey Jekson parlò alla corte australiana,e vertevano sulla reale possibilità che vi fossero fedeli adoratori,al di fuori dell'organizzazione visto che in Cina e in India l'opera era inesistente.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-09 22:56:04

      I can just imagine how they received your request. Good for you.

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-07-12 22:16:39

    Good morning all,

    I would like to share my experience with you all. My niece has just attended the Pioneer school and there was a segment in the program about the New World translation why it is the best translation you could ever come across.

    This was a get together and a number of my family members were there congratulating her for attending the pioneer school.

    I was asked a point blank question to which I have to answer, what do I think of the New World translation, and some of them had a smirky smile on their faces. I asked them are you asking because you want to know or are you asking just to test me out like the Pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus day?

    I started by making a statement there are three sides to every story there is your side there is my side and then there are the facts so what I’m going to do is to concentrate on facts which cannot lie.

    I started by asking them a question do you think that God is not capable of making himself understood that it takes Man to make him understood?

    One of the family members who is an elder in the congregation, looking at me he said of course not the day that happens I will step down from being an elder.

    Well I started with John 1:1 I asked the question why the need for the letter A when the Greek language do not have it, doesn’t that mean that God is not capable of making himself understood that it takes the governing body to make him understood, if that is the case, then he has failed in conveying the right information to us.

    Remember I’m only dealing with facts not what I think or what you think just plain facts that’s what I’m interested in.

    I asked my relatives would you like to hear more of what I have discovered?

    I asked if there is a difference between the word “Is” and “Means”. I asked them to check Kingdom interlinear when Jesus was instituting the memorial and he said, take eat, this “Is” my body, not “Means” my body this “Is” my blood not “Means” my blood… The apostles would have understood what he meant… Why change the word of God?

    I asked them about the word in “union” with Christ that the New World translation has it a number of occasions when the word union is NOT in the kingdom interlinear, also the word “association” is not mentioned in the kingdom interlinear nor in the other translations, and of course the most famous one “substitutes for Christ”.

    I said to them remember you asked what I think of the new world translation,
    I hope you got my answer based on facts not hearsay as I would like to think of myself as a Berean and not an ostrich, I like to deal with facts.

    I was asked the dreaded question, do you think you know more than the governing body? Well I said, do you think the governing body knows more than me? I have just proved to you my line of arguments based on facts not human reasoning.

    It was my turn to ask them a question do you think the pope is the voice of Christ here on the earth? No… What about the governing body being the voice of God here on the earth? No answer.

    I concluded my conversation with them by jokingly saying I feel like Jesus Christ nailed between two thieves one says I am the voice of Christ here on the earth and the other I am the voice of God here on the earth and they both want one thing from me…Money.

    I hope this experience of mine might help someone. Remember if you ask God for holly spirit, he’ll give it to you. Ask and you will receive.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-07-13 13:44:34

      Beautifully done, James. Beautifully done!

    • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-07-14 03:54:34

      Well done James. I am glad you brought out the bit about "in union with", as that is clear evidence of tampering with the scriptures. A number of years ago, after I had come off the BOE, an elder, who had just attended the elders school, said to me that they were told that the NWT was the best Bible translation. Where did he get that from ? The elders school. What was its source ? Who knows ? But it was not an independent source, that is for sure.

      HarperCollins Bible Dictionary lists the NWT among the major modern translations.
      Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart in "How to Read the Bible for All its Worth", describes the NWT as n "extremely literal translation filled with "heretical doctrines".

      In the same Wikipedia article on the Internet (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures) Bruce M Metzger identified instances where the translation has been written to support JW doctrines.

      Translation is a tricky thing, for we are often easily misunderstood in day to day speech. I believe the NWT can well justify the inclusion of Jehovah's name in the Hebrew scriptures, but to include it in the Christian Greek scriptures should definitely not be a job of the translator, although a reference in the footnotes could be acceptable, if done without bias. This alone precludes calling it a best translation, simply because for all of the 237 occasions, it is not a translation at all. Besides David Splane's futile attempt to justify JW.Org's position, not so very long ago, considered only those occasions where Kyrios was translated as Jehovah, where there was a cross reference to a parallel verse in the Hebrew scriptures. A follow up discussion of the many occasions where there was no such support never happened.

      Yes, the NWT is a translation. But on many occasions it is amazing to note that the committee defaulted to the King James when compiling it.

      So once again. those who claim the NWT to be the best translation are simply repeating what they have been spoon fed.

      You did very well, James to hold your ground and make your point.

      • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-07-14 04:02:16

        May I add to the above, that one line of evidence that the NWT is not a good translation is the reaction of the Organisation when anyone points out errors in interpretation of scripture. This alone demonstrates a reluctance to accept the truth, and if that is the case, how can one take it that the NWT itself has been produced in an honest way, especially when there is little evidence of scholars adequately equipped to translate from Hebrew or Greek in the first place.

      • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-14 05:47:59

        Thanks for your insight Leonardo, I will definitely will keep the references in mind.

  • Comment by Roberto 62 on 2022-07-15 20:28:39

    In un certo senso ci troviamo come fedeli adoratori di Geova, nella stessa situazione in cui si trovava Gesù Cristo, riguardo ai farisei.
    Appropriatamente l'apostolo Paolo scrisse in efesini,5:
    "
    "6 Nessuno vi inganni con parole vuote,+ poiché a causa delle predette* cose l’ira di Dio viene sui figli di disubbidienza.+ 7 Perciò non siate partecipi con loro;+ 8 poiché voi foste una volta tenebre,+ ma ora siete luce+ riguardo al Signore. Continuate a camminare come figli della luce, 9 poiché il frutto della luce consiste in ogni sorta di bontà e giustizia e verità.+ 10 Continuate ad assicurarvi di ciò che è accettevole+ al Signore; 11 e cessate di partecipare+ con [loro] alle infruttuose opere che appartengono alle tenebre,+ ma, piuttosto, riprendete[le],+

    Quello che viene detto a tutti i testimoni di Geova è che è necessario conformarsi a tutte le dottrine e a tutte le disposizioni che vengono impartite dallò "schiavo" perché questo sarebbe richiesto da Dio.

    È consentito in qualche modo di avere "intendimenti" diversi da ciò che insegna l'organizzazione,ma non si può parlare con altri,sia fratelli che persone in predicazione,pena di essere definito causa di divisione .

    Comunque consiglio a tutti di sfruttare in qualche modo il buon nome che abbiamo verso i fratelli, usando lo stesso metodo che usano i testimoni di Geova di casa in casa, cioè trovare una base in comune per fare accettare l'intendimento che è corretto della Bibbia, evitando di parlare contro lo schiavo, possibilmente.

    D'altronde abbiamo come maestro il Cristo,che non approfondiva certe questioni perché al momento i discepoli non erano in grado di afferrarne il significato,ma affermava che al momento opportuno lo spirito Santo avrebbe fatto comprendere chiaramente le cose ai discepoli.

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-07-17 07:32:32

    Good evening to all. I came across a puzzler of a scripture and need your help.

    Revelation 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God (Theou) is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God (Theos) himself will be with them.

    The voice is coming from the throne of God, and it seems Jesus is sitting on God’s throne and speaking on behalf of his father.

    This is the same as John 1:1 and NWT states one is referring to Jehovah and the other is referring to Jesus.

    Is this what’s happening here? If the scripture is talking about Jehovah (Theou), why change to (Theos)… Can someone please offer an explanation?

    Thanks again

    • Reply by Ad_Lang on 2022-07-17 13:37:04

      It is a matter of grammar. The last bit of a word can change depending on the function of the word in the sentence. The English language has a few similar examples. "Theou" is there because the subject is the tent "of God", while in the next sentence, "Theos" is used because "God" is speaking.

      If I may take you back to Philippians 2:9-11, you find that God has given Jesus the name that is above all other names. Of course, that is Jehovah's name. This is in line with John 5:22-23,31. Jesus states that the Father has given the judging to the Son. I have taken these two passages to mean that the Father has left the sanctifation of his name and related matters to the Son, and is sitting back to let Jesus get on with it, as it were. While the Son is not God himself, Jehovah has given it to him to be God to us. Hebrews 1:2-9 appears to confirm that.

      Perhaps this is where the confusion of the Trinity largely comes from. People do not see that Jesus' nature, his origin, is different from the position that has been given to him. You could perhaps say that Jesus was taken out of Jehovah, like Eve was taken out of Adam, to interact with creation as Jehovah cannot subject himself to it's laws and limitations. We are around the time when Jehovah transfers ownership of the whole of creation to Jesus, who had previously been legal heir, but not (yet) owner. So once that transfer has been completed, for all intents and purposes, Jesus is God of this creation, even if he is not the Almighty God himself.

      The above would then lead to the conclusion that we may see Jesus coming back to the earth to be with mankind. Due to his position as Mediator, through him we can say that God is with mankind. This is one of the reasons why I came to the conclusion that faithful Christians will primarily be on the earth once transformed, at least until the 1000 years have been completed. (See also the article "They will rule as kings... - what is a king?")

      • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-17 17:43:02

        Many thanks for your reply, I examined the Scriptures that you sent me, there is a clear distinction between the father and the son, however the voice in revelation is coming from the throne, there is no distinction between the father and the son, as I’m reading the scripture it doesn’t mention for example “my tent”, and “I will” reside with them.

        The voice is coming again from the same throne.

        • Reply by Ad_Lang on 2022-07-17 17:48:50

          Is that distinction important?

          Remember that John sees visions, and if he says that he saw a voice coming from the throne, it may mean that he doesn't know whose voice it was. If it wasn't clear to John, does it have to be clear to us?

          If we eagerly try to discern who was speaking, aren't we completely missing the point of the vision, which lies in what the voice was saying?

          • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-17 21:35:01

            Well the distinction to me is important and if I’m going to pray, and thank the “ONE” who is seated on the throne, I want to know who am I directing my prayer to, wouldn’t you consider that to be important?

            When somebody does an act of kindness to you, is it really important to you whom you should be thanking?

            I am being a Berean who examines carefully the Scriptures and I am 100% not missing the point of the vision. Many thanks for trying to help.

            • Reply by Psalmbee on 2022-07-17 23:08:28

              You are 100% correct James, Just remember everyday above ground is a good day and it's a great day when you know who's on the throne!

              Psalmbee (Isa 12:4)

              • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-18 02:15:07

                Amen my brother amen,

                A spirit of calmness has come over me as I have been praying for a soothing comment, Or an answer regarding this scripture.

                Isa 12:4 hit the spot and you’d be very happy to know that I have already asked one of the elders who is a member of my family concerning this text and I’m still waiting for his answer it’ll be interesting, I will share it with everybody.

                Today on zoom something very interesting happened as I was asked to share in the preaching work, and I was reminded, don’t forget we have to promote the convention on peace.

                I think you could’ve heard a pin drop when they heard my comment that the only good news I will share with people is about Jesus Christ according to Romans 1:1- 4.

                As it happened there was a young brother who recently got baptised and he has been following my answers to which I did not know via zoom, I always mention Jesus Christ in my comments and I always draw attention to Jesus Christ as being the centre of preaching, The foundation of Christianity that we have to build on.

                He made a comment that he just recently read the first few chapters of the book of Romans and he was extremely happy to hear that I am talking about the first chapter, here is the most beautiful thing you would ever get to hear from someone in front of a group of elders and ministerial servants.

                He paused a question: In my bible reading in the first few chapters of the book of Romans why isn’t the name Jehovah mentioned repeatedly by the apostle Paul? And why does he always refers to him as God? Also why is the name Jesus Christ or the Lord Jesus Christ constantly mentioned many many times by the apostle Paul?

                And this young brother turned around, and said we have to be using and preaching about Jesus Christ, and what brother James is saying it’s true the message of the good news of God IS Jesus Christ why aren’t we doing that?

                The brother who actually studied with him stepped in and he said we will talk about it after, we are called Jehovah’s Witnesses not Christ witnesses so we have to preach and get the name Jehovah even if the people don’t wish to listen to us.

                The young brother said, brother James is using God’s Word the Bible which is inspired, and you want me to use the word of man that isn’t inspired! how am I supposed to say that the Bible is my religions foundation?

                I thought I would share this with you and thanks again.

                • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-07-18 04:38:16

                  Like that a lot, James. I made a comment on Revelation 20:1-3 (Watchtower on Zoom) .The article is full of interpretations of the various beasts

                  The book of Revelation is given as signs. So is the abyss literal ? It can only be symbolic. So the 1000 years is as likely to symbolic as any other time period in the book. We will have to wait and see what is true on that one, of course.

                  Just keep those pointed comments going. It will make those who think, think.

                  Later that day, another brother, mentioned the forecast made in 1942 about the rise again of the League of Nations/United Nations (based Revelation 17:11). He was clearly influenced by the accuracy of the fulfillment of what Knorr said. What he did not realise was that the Nations were already talking about setting up the UN.

                  So Knorr was just jumping on the bandwagon and fitting events to the scriptures, just as so many things are deemed fulfilment of Jesus prophecy about the end.

                  Keep up the good work and keep those comments going !

                  • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-18 06:57:56

                    Thanks for the insight of 1942 Leonardo, I enjoy your comments.

  • Comment by Psalmbee on 2022-07-18 13:22:44

    Hi James,

    I glad to hear you are invoking Jesus' Name, and His Name at (Isa 12:4) clearly stands for His character and reputation. It will be interesting to see what this elder comes up with as for his explanation, surely he will revert back to the name of Jehovah in some sort of way.


    Psalmbee

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-07-20 06:18:28

    Hi all,

    Just finished watching Samuel Herd, update… I felt sick to hear him talk so much about Jehovah and NOT a word about Jesus Christ the head of the congregation.

    I wonder if JW’s do believe in headship arrangement, and what kind of future bride is GB to Christ, who don’t even acknowledge him at all.

    • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-20 14:49:38

      Hi James,
      If you have accepted that you are led by Jesus Christ and not by men, and if you love Jesus, I am not surprised that all this hurts you. It hurts me too and that was one of the main reasons why I left the WT organization that stood between me and my Lord. That they speak little of Jesus and that they do not give him the respect he deserves is one of their many sins.
       
      But I consider their greatest sin to be that they go against Jesus' command to take symbols at the Lord's Supper. By this evil practice, they are actively preventing millions of JWs from being cleansed by the shed blood of Jesus (Matthew 26:28) and leaving them in sin. That's disgusting.
      God bless you James.
      Frankie

      • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-20 22:36:44

        Many thanks Frankie… I really do enjoy your comments and especially the lists of the Scriptures concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.

        May the Father and the Son give you the holy spirit to write some more comments for our benefits.

        • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-21 13:06:49

          Thanks a lot, James (Philippians 4:13).
          Frankie

  • Comment by Frankie on 2022-07-21 15:31:02

    Dear brothers and sisters.
    Please allow me to comment on the theme of the personal names of our God Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ and write something about my current understanding, but thinking about my imperfection at the same time (1 Cor 13:12).

    Names in the Bible can have different meanings:
    1) Personal names unique to the given person,
    2) Figurative names or attributes that characterizes the given persons, e.g. according to their qualities, characteristics, status or kinship.

    The name Jehovah is the unique, personal name of our heavenly Father. This name is clearly defined by Jehovah himself in Exodus 3:15 and other places, e.g. in Exodus 34:5-6, Isa 42:8; 51:15.

    However, Jehovah has also other figurative names or attributes, e.g.: God Almighty - El-Shaddai (Exodus 6:3), Holy (Is 57:15), Redeemer (Is 63:16), God of hosts (Amos 4:13).

    The name Word (John 1:1) is Jesus' personal name within the heavenly sphere - "in the beginning the Word was with God". His personal name on Earth was Jesus (Jeshua) with the epithet Christ - the anointed one.

    Jesus Christ also has other names and attributes, which, however, are not his personal name, e.g.: names in Is 9:6, or Immanuel (Matt 1:23), Faithful and True (Rev 19:11), King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev 19:16), Word of God (Rev 19:13).
    But in verse Rev 19:13 we could find a connection with verse John 1:1 - the Word.

    In Isaiah 12:4, it says that Jehovah's name is exalted. The connection of Isa 12:4 and Philippians 2:9, according to me, does not clearly determine that the verse Isa 12:4 is talking about the name of Jesus. Namely, the following verses Philippians 2:10-11 speak of the subordination of the whole creation (every name) to Jesus. Jesus was given all power in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18) and thus He is exalted above all (except Jehovah, of course - 1 Cor 15:27).

    If someone's name is mentioned, it often refers to his/her characteristic - he/she has an excellent name. One possibility is that Paul speaks in Philippians 2:9 of the name of Jesus in this sense, not in the sense of a personal name. He has such a name that everyone and everything must submit to him - Acts 2:33; Eph 1:20-21; Heb 1:4.

    There could be another explanation for Philippians 2:9, because there is one more name of Jesus Christ that no one knows but Him (Rev 19:12). And this unknown name could be the personal name (the name) in the heavenly realm, which is above all names (except Jehovah - 1 Cor 15:27) and which Paul talks about in Philippians 2:9.

    Agape to all.
    Frankie

    P.S.
    I would also like to note that when I discuss with the supporters of the Trinity, I often point out that our heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are two beings who are distinguished, among other things, by their personal names - Jehovah and the Word. Then I ask: "Is Jehovah the name of Jesus Christ? “ The frequent answer then is "yes, Jesus Christ has the name Jehovah". Of course, this makes sense from the point of view of a supporter of the Trinity.

    • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-22 00:33:01

      Well done my brother many thanks ?

    • Reply by James Mansoor on 2022-07-26 18:36:38

      Good one mate,

      Let me also add to your P.S. about the Trinity:

      The Father sent the Son. The Son did not send the Father (John 6:44; 8:18; 10:36; 1 John 4:14)

      Jesus performed the redemptive work. The Father did not. (2 Cor 5:21; 1 Pet 2:24)

      Jesus is the only-begotten. The Father is not. (John 3:16)

      The Father gave the Son. The Son did not give the Father or the Holy Spirit. (John 3:16)

      The Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not send the Father and the Son. (John 14:26; 15:26)

      The Father has given the elect to the Son. Scripture does not say that the Father gave the elect to the Holy Spirit. (John 6:39)

      The Father chose us before the foundation of the world. No indication that the Son or the Holy Spirit chose us. (Eph 1:4)

      The Father predestined us to adoption according to the intention of his will. This is not said of the Son or the Holy Spirit. (Eph 1:5)

      We have redemption through Jesus’ blood, not the blood of the Father or the Holy Spirit. (Eph 1:7)

      Hope this helps the brothers and sisters when discussing the trinity.

      Enjoy your day

      • Reply by Frankie on 2022-07-27 08:11:53

        Excellent.

      • Reply by ZbigniewJan on 2022-07-27 17:31:29

        Hello James!
        You have put together simple logical arguments beautifully. I am pleased to present your arguments to my sister who posted a YouTube video about the NW Bible translation fraud. The film was followed by a discussion about what God is the Logos. It would be nice if you could join the discussion with Eric and Frankie. On YouTube: Raised in Truth.
        Regards !!!
        Be with God and Lord
        Zbigniew

      • Reply by ZbigniewJan on 2022-07-27 17:38:01

        Polish YouTube Wychowana w Prawdzie

  • Comment by James Mansoor on 2022-08-09 23:17:29

    Good morning all,

    Once every so often we have a family get together, and sometimes we get into a spiritual discussion.

    An interesting conversations that I’d like to share with all of you about birthday celebrations Christmas, Easter and so forth…

    Two of my family members who are elders in different congregations where present, I posed a question to them? Would you celebrate birthdays, or would you attend a birthday celebration or Christmas or Easter? And they emphatically stated NO.

    So I asked the question, that would make you a hypocrite, if you preach to everyone that these celebrations are of pagan origins, but at the same time you attend them isn’t that true? Of course they agreed wholeheartedly.

    A question I raised, when did Jesus kick Satan out of heaven? And obvious answer is 1914.

    My second question was, when was the slave class selected? And they said 1919.

    So I said that that would make Jesus a hypocrite who kicked Satan out of heaven with his practices only to come down and select in 1919 a group of people that are celebrating Christmas, Easter, and birthdays, not to mention the cross, now that would make him really, really a hypocrite. You should’ve seen the shock on their faces because I got them to think of what they believe in.

    The only answer I got from all of them was, I must be reading apostate literature.

    And there you have it friends, when you use your critical thinking you get attacked because you’re not running as the rest of them do worshipping the ground that the governing body is walking on.

    I just thought I might share this with you hope that helps some of you.

    • Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2022-08-10 11:33:16

      "You must be reading apostate material."

      Thanks for my morning laugh, James.

      That standard JW response when confronted with reasoning they can't answer is an ad hominem attack. It's a sure sign they are in the wrong.

    • Reply by Leonardo Josephus on 2022-08-10 16:41:38

      Love the reasoning, James. Well done. Now, were is that scripture that says "Whatever things you may bind on earth will already be bound in Heaven ?". Oh yes Matthew 16:19, or, if you like, Matthew 18:18.

      Hum.

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