[This post was contributed by Alex Rover]
Some leaders are exceptional human beings, with a powerful presence, one inspiring of confidence. We are naturally drawn to exceptional people: tall, successful, well spoken, good looking.
Recently, a visiting Jehovah’s Witness sister (let’s call her Petra) from a Spanish congregation asked my opinion about the current Pope. I could sense an undertone of admiration for the man, and keeping in mind that she used to be Catholic, I sensed the true issue at hand.
The current Pope may well be such an exceptional person—a reformer with an apparent love for Christ. It would be only natural then that she feel an ounce of nostalgia for her former religion and inquired about him.
Spontaneously, 1 Samuel 8 came to my mind, where Israel asks Samuel to give them a king to lead them. I read verse 7 to her where Jehovah responded firmly: “It is not you [Samuel] whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected as their king”. – 1 Samuel 8:7
The people of Israel may not have had the intention to abandon worship to Jehovah as their God, but they wanted a visible king like the nations; one who would judge them and fight their battles for them.
The lesson is clear: no matter how exceptional human leadership may be, the desire for a human leader is tantamount to rejection of Jehovah as our sovereign ruler.
Jesus: King of Kings
Israel had its share of kings throughout history, but finally Jehovah showed mercy and installed a king with an everlasting mandate on the throne of David.
Jesus Christ is by any measure the most charismatic, confidence-inspiring, powerful, loving, just, kind, and meek man to have ever lived. In the complete sense of the word, he can also be termed the most handsome of any son of Adam. (Psalm 45:2) The Scriptures name Jesus the ‘King of kings’ (Revelation 17:14, 1 Timothy 6:15, Matthew 28:18). He is the ultimate and best King we could ever desire. If we look to replace him, it is a double act of betrayal to Jehovah. First, we would reject Jehovah as King as did Israel. Second, we would reject the king Jehovah gave us!
It is our Heavenly Father’s desire that in Jesus’ name every knee shall bend and every tongue shall openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Father’s glory (2 Philippians 2:9-11).
Do Not Boast In Men
Looking back, I am glad Petra didn’t stop her questions at the Pope. I nearly fell off my chair when she continued to ask me about how I would feel in the presence of a member of the Governing Body.
I immediately responded: “Not any different or more privileged than I feel in the presence of the brothers and sisters at our Kingdom hall!” Consequently, I looked up the passage in 1 Corinthians 3:21-23, “...let no one boast in men... you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God”; and Matthew 23:10, “Neither be called leaders, for your leader is one, the Christ”.
If we have but ‘one’ leader, it means our leader is a single entity, not a group. If we follow Christ, then we cannot look to any brother or man on earth as our leader, for that would mean rejecting Christ as our sole leader.
Petra’s mother—also a witness—was nodding in agreement the whole time. And taking it one step further, I said: “Didn’t you hear that the Governing Body themselves have said that they are fellow domestics? On what basis then, could we treat these brothers as more special than others?”
Jehovah’s Witnesses Are Asking for a King
It is most interesting how the human mind works. Once the defensive walls are brought down, the floodgates open. Petra went on to tell me a personal experience. Last year, a member of the Governing Body spoke at the Spanish District convention she attended. She went on to recall how afterward the audience kept applauding for minutes. According to her, it became so uncomfortable that the brother had to leave the stage, and even then, the applause still continued.
This bothered her conscience, she explained. She told me that at one point she stopped clapping, because she felt it was tantamount to—and here she used a Spanish word—“veneración”. As a woman from a Catholic background, there is no misunderstanding the import of this. "Veneration" is a word used in conjunction with the Saints, demonstrating honor and reverence to an extent one step beneath adoration which is due to God alone. The Greek word proskynesis quite literally means “kissing in the presence [of]” a superior being; acknowledging the recipient’s divinity and the giver’s submissive humility. [i]
Can you picture a stadium filled with thousands of people performing an act of veneration to a man? Can we imagine these same individuals calling themselves Jehovah’s people? Yet this is exactly what is happening before our eyes. Jehovah’s Witnesses are asking for a king.
The Consequences of What’s Being Published
I have not shared with you the full story on how my conversation with Petra initially came about. It actually started with another question. She asked me: “Will this be our last memorial”? Petra went on to reason: “Why else would they write that”? And her belief was reinforced by the brother at the memorial talk last week who said something to the tune that the recent rise in anointed proves that the 144,000 are nearly sealed. (Revelation 7:3)
I reasoned with her from the Scriptures and helped her come to her own conclusion about this topic, but what it illustrates are the consequence of what’s being written in our publications. What effect does the current spiritual food have on the congregations? Not all Jehovah’s servants are blessed with a large amount of knowledge and experience. This was a very sincere, but average sister from a Spanish congregation.
As to the veneration of the Faithful Slave, I am a personal witness to this. In my own congregation, I count more mention of these men than of Jesus. In prayers, elders and circuit overseers thank the ‘Slave Class’ for their direction and their food more often than they thank our true leader, the Logos himself, the Lamb of God.
I beg to ask, did these men claiming to be the Faithful Slave spill their blood for us so we might live? Do they deserve more mention of praise than the only begotten Son of God who gave his life and blood for us?
What has caused these changes in our brothers? Why did this member of the Governing Body have to leave the stage before the applause was complete? It is a consequence of what they are teaching in the publications. One only has to take a look at the endless stream of reminders about loyalty and obedience to the organization and the ‘Slave Class’ over the past months in our Watchtower study articles.
Standing on the Rock at Horeb
I can only imagine what kind of ‘veneration’ all this will invoke this coming summer, when the Governing Body will speak directly to the crowds, be it in person or through video projector systems.
Gone are the days when these brothers were unknown to us; virtually anonymous. I hope that this summer I will still be able to recognize the religion I grew up in. But we are not naïve. We’re already witnessing the consequences of our latest writings in the attitudes of many of our dear brothers and sisters.
All hope now lies squarely in the hands of the Governing Body. When undue praise does occur, will they firmly correct the audience, say it is improper and redirect praise to our true King? (John 5:19, 5:30, 6:38, 7:16-17, 8:28, 8:50, 14:10, 14:24)
This summer, the Governing Body will address the nation of Jehovah. They will stand on a figurative rock at Horeb. There will be those they consider as rebels in the audience; murmurers . It is obvious from the material in The Watchtower that the Governing Body is growing increasingly impatient with such ones! Will they attempt to silence these by trying to provide their version of ‘waters of life’, truth from the ‘faithful slave’?
Either way, we are likely to witness an historic event in the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses at this year’s district conventions.
As a closing thought, I will share a symbolic drama. Please follow along in your Bible at Numbers 20:8-12:
Write a letter to the congregations and call them together for an international convention, and say that many Scriptural truths will be discussed, and that the brothers and sisters will be refreshed along with their households.
So the Faithful and Discrete Slave Class prepared the talk material, just as Jehovah commanded to give food at the proper time. Then the Governing Body called upon the congregations at the international convention and said: “Hear, now, you rebel apostates! Must we produce living water, new truth for you from God’s Word?”
With that the Governing Body members lifted their hands up and struck the audience with awe as they released new publications, and the brothers and sisters and their households broke out in a thundering applause and gave thanks.
Jehovah later said to the Faithful Slave: “Because you did not show faith in me and sanctify me before the eyes of the people of Jehovah, you will not bring the congregation into the land that I will give them.”
May this never come true! As one associating with Jehovah’s Witnesses, it truly saddens me that this is the path we are on. I do not seek new waters as proof, I seek a return to the love of Christ as early bible students had. And so I pray that Jehovah can soften their heart before it is too late.
___________________________________
[i] 2013, Matthew L. Bowen, Studies in the Bible and Antiquity 5:63-89.
Archived Comments
We have moved to the Disqus commenting system. To post a new comment, go to the bottom of this page.
Comment by Katrina on 2014-04-30 09:48:50
Great post, and sadly this is very true in my congregation also, prayers thanking FDS for their hard work and thanking Jehovah for providing the slave.
It is constant, and my thoughts are that they are told to mention the FDS to remind the brothers that is they that Jehovah has chosen to feed the sheep and we should be grateful, and why is it they don't just come right out and say the GB the FDS?
I for one really believe that this is true, because every brother says the same thing, why?
Could it be the GB way of getting dissenters out, imagine if some brothers complained about this?
The greatest stumbling and apostasy of Gods people has always been idolatry, because as you said they want a visual tangible leader or king, the devil has always used idolatry and nothing has changed, he knows it has worked in the past.
the kings of the golden calf.Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-04-30 10:28:46
If you want to become an elder or servant or pioneer, it is a prior requirement you verbally, or in writing, state to accept the FDS teachings.
Saying thanks for the Slave Class in public prayers is nothing less but a public declaration of loyalty. It's not mandated, but it makes you look very good in the congregation. Somehow it has become a way of one showing to another that he is more obedient or more thankful.
At one service meeting talk, a certain brother found a way to praise the slave nearly 20 times in 15 minutes. Afterward the ones that rushed to praise him for his part were eager to show that they too, are very loyal. It's become a sort of flag salutation, a purple triangle.Reply by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-04-30 10:40:26
First of all, thank you Alex for an excellent article. You have nailed many important points during this transitional period we seem to be in.
You said in your comment that "If you want to become an elder or servant or pioneer, it is a prior requirement you verbally, or in writing, state to accept the FDS teachings. "
As far as I know there is no formal process for this. Is it something you have observed locally, or is there some actual protocol that I might be unaware of?Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-04-30 11:14:47
The pioneer forms have it in writing.
The MS/Elder to-be who has a reputation of independent bible study will (in my own experience) be asked if they are in harmony. If the said candidate is already praising the FDS in prayers and/or talks, then that question serves no purpose. It is a requirement for sure.
Comment by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-04-30 11:52:55
I really, really , really enjoyed this article. It is the kind of an article that builds faith in the fact that Jehovah sees all and will set matters straight in his own timetable. There are many today that disillusioned with religion altogether because of the effusive praise given to men and our religion (Jehovah’s Witnesses) are no exception. The illustration you used drawing upon the example Moses at Mount Horeb is very fitting . Moses’ sin at Horeb was a manifestation of what was already in his heart. Jehovah reproved Moses accordingly and lost out on the Promised Land as a result.
Comment by Dorcas on 2014-04-30 17:59:15
Thank you for your great article, Alex. I agree, we are teetering on uneven ground at present. When I saw the pic of Anthony Morris on the tract/invitation I could not believe my eyes. In all my years as a witness, and believe me they are many, I have never witnessed such veneration of men. Yes, I've noticed "The Slave" being mentioned more and more in our congregation as well as in the prayers. I've become sick at heart by what's taking place.
Reply by KeepOnSeeking on 2014-04-30 21:30:12
"When I saw the pic of Anthony Morris on the tract/invitation I could not believe my eyes."
I was saddened over this when the invitations were passed out as well. I hope that the Governing Body soon wakes up and realizes that their self-glorification is hurting the hearts of Jesus' precious sheep.
Comment by Sargon on 2014-04-30 18:04:46
I'm dreading this years convention. After the annual meeting I expect the praise of the governing body to be at an all time high. This trend of the governing body to be more prominent has also caused some among our ranks to become loyalists who will gladly seek out dissenters. Such loyalists don't realize they are following men. Where in the bible are we taught to be follow the slave? I hope many can wake up. I believe many already have. This year will be pivotal. I decent a mutiny brewing as the organization becomes polarized between loyalists and people who are no longer buying what the GB is selling. I believe the GB knows it too, hence the increase in anti apostate watchtower articles.
Reply by Gerry on 2014-05-01 22:40:23
1984 (not 14) is absolutely happening. The HARD crackdown has started. Mt. 24:48 needs to be examined.
Reply by BN on 2014-05-03 13:39:49
and v 27 + 28 .. (21-28)
Comment by bereanteachers on 2014-04-30 18:10:58
Thank you, this is a very good post. I have also witnessed this in my home congregation and the various territories I have been serving. It only seems to be getting worse throughout the various congs.
Comment by on 2014-04-30 18:18:10
Thanks alex for a fine well written article .If only articles like that were in the watchtower .Kev
Comment by apollos0fAlexandria on 2014-04-30 19:44:02
At the risk of venerating the author (just kidding Alex - I'm certain you would never take it that way), I did find the content of this article to be "food at the proper time".
A while back I recall one of Meleti's articles examining the possible meanings of Matt 24:45, together with the parallel gospel accounts. When we spot holes in the published information by the org, it is natural for us to ask, if not them, then who?
In particular this article examined the business of feeding the domestics: http://meletivivlon.com/2013/08/31/identifying-the-faithful-slave-part-4/
(Meleti - if there is a more appropriate article for the point I'm making maybe you can supply the link)
But what I wanted to say is that I have certainly felt that the fellow Christians on this site and DTT have often provided the right word at the right time. This article from Alex is a great example of that. None of us who write articles on this or any other site are "more special" than any of our fellow Christians. We are simply trying to respond to Jesus' parable by passing on to others what we feel God's Word and the spirit seem to clarify for us. And in so doing we become faithful in serving others as slaves.
If we hid the results of our personal study, meditations, and observations under a basket, then we would be like the slave who buried his talent in the ground (Matt 5:15; 25:18).
And yet here is the published argument against that as per a 2012 Gilead grad talk:
w12 8/1 pp. 28-29 Champions of the Truth
The third slave was called “wicked and sluggish” and “good-for-nothing.” What was his problem? He buried his talent. A talent was, not a coin, but a unit of weight the equivalent of 6,000 denarii, which would weigh 45 pounds (20 kg). That is about the weight a person is allowed in a suitcase when traveling internationally. It would have taken effort to bury anything the size of a suitcase. So the slave did something—he buried the talent—but that was not what he was directed to do. Similarly, a missionary may be busy—but busy doing what? Writing newsletters, surfing the Internet, socializing, or engaging in business? Such a person could be totally exhausted at the end of the day after engaging in such activities, but he did not do what he was directed to do. Brother Jackson concluded: “Always follow direction!”
To me that is very telling. Fulfilling Jesus' direction to both make disciples and to feed one another as fellow slaves apparently does not make the cut UNLESS one does it as directed by a human authority.
Yet, if there were to be an error such as that of Moses, or God forbid, even an apostasy among leaders today, as there was in Israelite times, then who would speak out? Who would point out such a thing to their fellow slaves? Clearly all Alex has done is point out the dangerous waters that we may be heading into in order for each of us to be on alert as we should be. Idolatry is no trivial matter. John wrote "little children guard yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). Indeed many are like spiritual babes / little children, and that is understandable. Would it be proper to see such ones head into the path of idolatry and say nothing?
Thank you again Alex for food at what I believe to be a very appropriate time.
ApollosReply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-05-01 10:43:06
The Governing Body feels that they are “chosen” by Jehovah and that they alone are faithful, discreet and slaves of Christ . So in turn any measures that they use to make decisions for everyone else are faithful and discreet. I believe that thinking allows them not to feel guilty or ashamed about the obvious failings of their doctrine/policies even if goes against what they may personally believe or feel. Everyone outside of the organization and even those within who disagree with them are enemies of the GB( even if you only disagree in your heart or thinking) . They alone are righteous and that puffs them up with pride in their “God-given” authority that they have over Jehovah’s sheep. The video Apollos posted on DTT is most revealing of how “group think” has its drawbacks. In my line of work when this becomes an issue I tend to think that breaking a group into smaller groups is the answer. It starts at the top …. The detrimental group think within the governing body is a disease and of course it is infectious and spreads through the organization.
Comment by Nick O. on 2014-04-30 19:51:34
Excellent article Alex! A very accurate summery of what we are seeing today. I remember growing up, having no knowledge of who the governing body members were. Even introductions to books were often attributed to "The Publishers". This is much more modest than letters we now receive saying, "The Governing Body has decided..." The trend seemed to really escalate with the introduction of some of our early DVDs, where before or after, the "lesson" was introduced and concluded by a governing body member.
Ten to fifteen years later it is common for a governing body member to be "teaching" on camera at just about every opportunity, even with almost choreographed movements (for example while "teaching" on one video, a governing body member 'spontaneously' walks over to a bookshelf and pulls out the bible in order to read a scripture.) In the past, such as in drama tapes, governing body members frequently narrated or introduced the program. But the identity of these ones was almost always held in the shadows. I could name maybe one or two off the top of my head. Now it appears that they have each achieved a celebrity status, as even a child these days can easily identify a member on video. While it is not my place to judge each brother as to their motives behind this apparent change, the scriptures do warn about desiring prominence. Matthew 23:5-10 shows us the Pharisaic attitude Jesus warned about, contrasted with the attitude followers of Christ need to cultivate.
23:5. All the works they do, they do to be seen by men, for they broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards and lengthen the fringes of their garments. 6. They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats at the synagogues 7. and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men ... 10. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. (NWT)
Comment by BN on 2014-04-30 21:51:14
Simon, Simon; Look! The Opposer has demanded to have each of you so [he can] sift you like wheat.
Some of the chosen ones will be wheat - some weed.
We all have to be careful whom we choose to follow (listen to) : 'At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah's organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey ANY instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not'
Yes, if you show me a sound scriptural reason .....for me to act a certain way ....
Comment by search4truth on 2014-04-30 22:01:18
I seek a return to the love of Christ as early bible students had. That's all I wish for too. Mercy and not sacrifice. Forgiveness and not judgement. Thanks for very well written article.
Comment by MakeSureOfAllThings on 2014-04-30 23:46:09
Reblogged this on Make Sure of All Things and commented:
Do Jehovah's Witnesses venerate and adore the Governing Body? Some have witnessed this on more than one occasion -- so, why is this happening in the congregations? Why is it being permitted?
Alex Rover has written an excellent post on this very subject that is highly recommended for getting a better idea of what is actually taking place within the Organization right now.
Comment by Idolatry – What is It? | Make Sure of All Things on 2014-05-01 00:11:02
[…] I was reading Alex Rover’s article “They Asked for a King“, my first thought was the pride and arrogance of the individuals mentioned in his post […]
Comment by JB on 2014-05-01 02:49:57
Great article. I have been thinking that people always looked for "references" among humans, as a leader, role model, etc. To some extent, it's probably a natural reaction and in particular ways, may be healthy. However, we can witness some really strange tendencies on various areas. For instance regarding the governments, I could see that the virtues are not necessarily the basis for people's appreciation. People seem to appreciate nowadays, authoritarian and aggressive people as leaders, more than the ones showing virtues more in the direction of Jesus' teachings. I have been shocked even, seeing that after some moral conduct related scandals some leaders popularity even raised !
We do live in a strange world.
I think to some extent, due to this natural tendency, there is a danger for taking such individuals for more than what they really are, if they have more visible roles putting them into such a role. It's these individuals' task to redirect the attention to whom really deserves it.
Nevertheless, I'm more reassured about the last part of the article, related to Moses' actions and the consequences on the crowd. God of love I believe in will not judge me because of whomever trying to lord over me, but it is all about what I do with my life and my actions.
As you mentioned, some very honest, well-intentioned people in the congregation may fall in the situation to follow WT teachings without questioning like here. It may happen that some people have less possibilities and background for such research. When we read the bible, we see that Jehovah, and Jesus didn't welcome the intellectuals in the KIngdom, but the faithful. It seems likely to me that Jehovah knows each one of us, and even among the ones who applauded the GB member for minutes have, each of them, the attention and love of Him.
Comment by on 2014-05-01 04:43:23
The way this is going everybody in the organisation is going to be put under compulsion to make an open pledge of allegiance to the governing body a vow to serve them .
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-01 08:06:54
What you're referring to is called an "affirmation" and it has been suggested in the past for Bethelites. Pioneers and Bethelites are already required to make an affirmation as part of the application form. To date, elders are not, though I know of two instances where an elder was required to express his acceptance of GB teaching. Elders have to demonstrate that they are fully committed to the Governing Body and all its teachings. However, a verbal affirmation is not yet a requirement, so many can continue to serve and stay under the radar. I fear that is the requirement for a spoken "pledge of allegiance" were made policy, a considerable number of elders would step down.
Comment by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-01 08:00:14
Excellent post, Alex. It's struck a chord, no doubt. We'll soon see to what level this growing admiration for the Governing Body will grow as a result of this year's conventions.
I was just reviewing the program. Part of it is the same repetitious indoctrination we've had for the past three and a half decades of the post-1975 era. All dos and don'ts, but no real scriptural meat. However, they are doubling down on the 1914 doctrine in a big way this year.Reply by Alex Rover on 2014-05-01 16:14:10
Thank YOU for your editing work Meleti, and for allowing me to participate on your wonderful blog.
The point which I think is so powerful in the post, is that it speaks evidence to the truth to you even if you believe with all your heart that the GB is today's Moses.
No matter what we believe, any honest person can see the impact, the changes, the "consequences of what is written".Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-01 18:39:48
My pleasure. From the responses already received and the number of views, it's evident that you hit a chord with many readers. Quite a few of our brothers and sisters feel as you do and are concerned about the direction the Governing Body is taking.
Comment by BeenMislead on 2014-05-01 10:54:01
The GB’s answer to this is that they are appointed by Jesus. And that by following them you are following Christ.
“... the governing body of the “slave” class is not appointed by any man. It is appointed by the same one who appointed the twelve apostles in the first century C.E., namely, Jesus Christ the Head of the true Christian congregation and the Lord and Master of the “faithful and discreet slave” class.” – (w71 12/15, Pg. 758, A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation)
“Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize no human as their leader. They are not disciples or followers of any man.” ( w10 9/15, Pg. 21, “Your Leader Is One, the Christ”)
Of course there is no proof or evidence to support this grandiose claim. We need to just believe it because they say it is so! There was however absolute proof that Moses was appointed by Jehovah.
Exodus 4:1 – (“However, Moses answered: “But suppose they do not believe me and do not listen to my voice, for they will say, ‘Jehovah did not appear to you.”)
God proceeds to give him 3 signs or miracles that Moses would perform in front of the Israelites to show that he was indeed God’s spokesman. (Exodus 4:2-9)
When Moses speaks with the Israelites he performs the miraculous signs. (Exodus 4:29-31) – (“After that Moses and Aaron went and gathered all the elders of the Israelites. 30 Aaron told them all the words that Jehovah had spoken to Moses, and he performed the signs before the eyes of the people. 31 At this the people believed.”)
These miraculous signs were the proof to show God had selected Moses.Reply by search4truth on 2014-05-01 13:11:39
Evidence? Ask any Jw about evidence and they will certainly tell you about the Watchtower magazine the most widely distributed magazine in the world or about more then one billion hours of preaching in the 239 lands by more the n 7 million Jw around the globe. These are impressive numbers indeed. And this is the reason why most Jw I know don't care much about some appointment that came about nearly hundred years ago. Why should they? Look, we spread the good news like nobody else in the whole universe. They don't care much that by this logic God must by definitely blessing for example McDonald's restaurants largest chain of fast food restaurants in the world with more than 33,000 outlets operating in over 100 countries. I'm not saying that God is not blessing our work or work of any other christian group preaching good news, but numbers presented to us are hardly evidence for claim that we have ' the truth' and we are God's chosen people , not to mention evidence for usurping the authority over fellow brothers by some self appointed leaders. Great video on You Tube by Peter Gregerson explains well why the fds appointment in 1919/18 is a deception on us rank&file and proves that they have no authority whatsoever over us. http://youtu.be/or72IKBkmHM
Reply by on 2014-05-01 13:50:54
It could be the loving provision of allowing the disabled to report their field service in 15 minute increments .Or the wonderful spiritual nourishment on offer every week . These are actual quotes from elders ive heard . Heres some more ok its not in the bible its a society rule and you either follow it or get disfellowshipped . Or you have to prove to us that you havent committed fornication is another one .also a 76 year old lady i know had an 80 year old man doing some gardening for her and made the mistake of inviting him inside for a cup of tea . The elders response to her i quote did any hanky panky go on . She hasnt been to the meeting since that was 2 years ago .Sorry to deviate from the initial subject but these things say alot to me about the teaching and appointment of the Rulers of the organisation . A blind man cannot guide a blind man can he both will tumble into the pit will they not a pupil is not above his teacher but everyone that is perfectly instructed will be like his teacher. Luke 6 v 39 .40 kev
Reply by BeenMislead on 2014-05-02 10:16:19
I need them to Show me:
Incontrovertible evidence, which means not open to question.
Indisputable proof, meaning impossible to question or doubt.
I have NOT seen this kind of proof. Surely this is the kind of proof Jehovah and/or Jesus would provide for his channel of communication on earth today.Reply by on 2014-05-02 13:45:21
Your dead right especially since armageddon is suppossed to be around the corner . I thought our times were a parallel of moses day Or even the first century look at acts 2 verses 17 to 22 its speaks of prophesy visions and portents . But you know what i wouldnt require any of that if what they said was in harmony with the scriptures .come some of the procedures and doctrines are blatently out of tune with scripture .thats why i have doubts .kev
Reply by GodsWordIsTruth on 2014-05-05 11:39:15
Observer 17-
Hi:)
Thank you very much for your post. Very, Very interesting.....
Comment by on 2014-05-01 13:13:27
Alex Rover,
I say this with a heavy heart brother, You Speak the Truth!
There is no joy in watching the Governing Body, our brothers, men who have spent their lives in service to Jehovah, lose their spiritual sight. Their own reflection in the mirror has blinded them to their responsibility toward the sheep they have been entrusted with. It has blinded them making them forget that before Jehovah God they, and we, are nothing and all mankind should act accordingly.
Without a doubt a dividing is beginning to occur and will continue to grow. The Governing Body is forcing a choice among the brothers and sisters: choose the Governing Body or choose Jehovah and his Son.
There are those who will say: "'But as for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah.' At this the people answered and said: “It is unthinkable, on our part, to leave Jehovah so as to serve other gods."
DaytonaReply by Katrina on 2014-05-02 02:04:27
search for truth, thank you for the utube link!
I had read quite a bit from the finished mystery, its insane, no other words can describe it, and yet the GB view Rutherford as part of the FDS, not only that the org is based on him really his views.
I found it really interesting that the claim of appointment as the FDS and master over all of Christ belongings because of their repentance to bondage of BTG a real eye opener, the Proclaimers book is lying, still believing the superior authorities for ten years after the so called repentance, and the cross still in 1930 on the cover of the WT, xmas still observed till 1926.
What is worse is their claim of approval by Christ, it really is sickening.
Either Rutherford was insane or a con man.
And the GB allowing all these cover ups, is just as reprehensible.
Satan has trapped many of Gods sheep within the organization.Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-02 09:36:13
The religious leaders that opposed and ultimately killed Jesus were neither insane or con men. They were blind guides whose blindness and pride ultimately lead to their downfall. Some started out as good men wanting only to please God. Some of them even secretly confessed Jesus. But for the majority, they became wicked after God in his mercy gave them every opportunity to repent. There is a big element of self-deception and self-delusion involved in this type of blindness.
Comment by miken on 2014-05-02 07:17:02
"Great video on You Tube by Peter Gregerson explains well why the fds appointment in 1919/18 is a deception on us rank & file and proves that they have no authority whatsoever over us. http://youtu.be/or72IKBkmHM"
For definitive proof they were not chosen in 1919 see Don Cameron's book Captives of a Concept, the most important publication written on the 1919 claim.
http://captivesofaconcept.com/AboutTheBook.html
Comment by search4truth on 2014-05-02 14:12:20
There is a big element
of self-deception and
self-delusion involved
in this type of
blindness. Yes I agree. Is there any cure for this kind of blindness?Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-02 17:25:33
Yes, Jesus had it. However, it's like the old joke about how many psychiatrists are needed to change a light bulb. Answer: Only one, but the light bulb has to really want to change.
Comment by XKhanX on 2014-05-03 09:36:31
I like your article n felt the same way too. We had only recently dissociated after 20 yrs as JW.
Comment by BN on 2014-05-03 14:31:55
To Anonymous : it happens, Acts 2 ; the problem is that as jws we've learned that these things doesn't happen, That's why jws and even former jws do not talk about it Maybe there is a change in that now ..at least outside the wt.'For as lightning flashes 'cross the sky from the east to the west; that's how you'll the Son of Man is nearby..yes, the vultures will gather at the carcass' Matt 24:27, 28.
Reply by BN on 2014-05-03 14:33:17
that's how you'll now that the Son of Man is nearby
Reply by BN on 2014-05-03 14:43:58
this time I forgot a k;(lo) that's how you KNOW that the Son of Man is nearby ....
Comment by SilverTop on 2014-05-04 00:39:42
Just want to say I agree with the thoughts here. For years I've kept my fears, thoughts, and doubts to myself, but with each passing week, it has become more apparent what I have to do. My husband and I have decided to "fade", which is actually quite easy to do as in our congregation, we could probably fall down dead in the back of the Kingdom Hall, and no one would notice. (sigh) So much for Christian love. Only problem is having a social life, friends, etc...We currently live in Southwest Louisiana. I don't want to give any more information than this. I've often wished there was a way to meet like-minded people who love Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, but can no longer accept the twisted convolutions of the WTBTS. It is sad in a y, because for over 20 years, I believed everything I read in the Watchtower with all my heart. On the other hand, my husband and I read and study the Bible, pray and try hard to live according to Bible principles. I must admit thought, I am sometimes afraid that Jehovah is angry with me for feeling as I do. In the farthest corners of my mind, there is a small, but insistant voice that says I am wrong and that I should be obedient to the Society. How do I handle these fears brothers and sisters? Does anyone else feel this way? I hope someone has a word of encouragement for me. Thanks in advance.
SilvertopReply by JB on 2014-05-04 03:27:29
SilverTop, I think it's natural to feel this way. I have a different experience. I have been for 20 years out of touch with the congregation and upon a conversation with a family member of mine, whom I respect very much, who insisted that I should give myself a chance and come back to the meetings, I restarted attending the meetings.
After all, he's such an intelligent and good person, he can't be wrong. Besides, some of other members in my family are JW's. I also had deep trouble with my conscience all these years for being out of touch because, like you, I still believed in God and Jesus Christ.
However, one has a better view, a "clearer" view after so many years. I attented meetings for several months. I didn't feel good about things I read in WT and also things I heard in some public talks. There were cases I truly felt shocked, like during a WT study talking about following GB instructions even if they seemed strategically or humanly difficult to understand, someone in the audience said "we should follow them - blindly -, causing some embarassment on the brother's part, who chaired the study. That moment was revealing for me. How can a F&DS lead his sheep to such a blind world ?
But the plus point for me is, I had an apetite to read and research more than ever. So while I stopped attending meetings altogether, I feel more engaged in my spiritual path. My personal opinion is that people should find their way to keep them close to their spirituality and if this is still being part of the JW organization, so be it. Eventually the family member I spoke about seems like a happy person and each time he talks about his activities, he looks quite enthousiastic. But to tell you in all honesty, I'm a little afraid for challenging him about various points dreading the consequences, not for me, but for his peace of mind. I should do this but I don't have the courage.
I also have a deep voice which whispers every now and then. But I'm sorry to say, when I saw more about the WTBTS history, recent scandals and the things I personally witnessed in the period I "returned" to the meetings, I'm taking my responsibility in hands and remain out of the organization altogether, and search for Jehovah and Jesus Christ myself rather than being controlled by the congregation. I don't believe WT organization is led by spiritual people, but this doesn't mean that many Jehovah's Witnesses aren't good people. I love many of them dearly, pity that many aren't allowed to return the feeling for ones "growing cold" of the organization - and actually, many do want to return the feeling ! - because the organization says so. After all I am still following very informative and interesting points with the "real" witnesses now that internet is such an open world.
No matter what path we take, Jehovah gave us our abilities for reasoning, and a concsience. We have no excuses for not using them. I think this is the most important thought, as far as I'm concerned.
And Jehovah is God of Love, He won't abandon the ones who honestly search for Him. I think he gave us a good GPS for finding our way towards what truth is, up to us to use it efficiently :-) But, Jehovah God has love and mercy for everyone searching for Him with honesty, It's my strongest conviction.
I wish you the best and blessings in your reflection and honest efforts for guiding your spiritual life. I'm unfortunately so far away from Louisiana but if I was nearer, for sure I would have been delighted to meet up.
Reply by Meleti Vivlon on 2014-05-04 08:36:35
I understand your doubts. Having been raised a JW and served loyally all my life, I've experienced the power of decades of indoctrination. One thing to keep in mind are these words:
(Hebrews 6:10, 11) 10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name by ministering and continuing to minister to the holy ones. 11 But we desire each one of you to show the same industriousness so as to have the full assurance of the hope down to the end. . .
The organization would have us believe they have identified the holy ones (a remnant of anointed ones) and if we follow a proscribed formula of preaching from door to door, contributing money, filling in our monthly service reports, and going to all their meetings and conventions, that we will fulfill this scripture. In fact, we help out the holy ones by finding the true brothers of Christ, those who are identified by showing love for each other and for his name and that of his father, and ministering to them. The writer of Hebrews was addressing the holy ones so we are not outside of this group, but within it. We help out each other whatever the need may be. That is of value in God's eyes, not slavish obedience to the leadership of men.
Jesus never motivated through guilt nor fear nor intimidation. His disciples followed him out of love. We are made to feel guilty if we don't do more, more, more. We are made to feel fear of dying at Armageddon if we don't stay in the organization and loyally obey all its mandates. We are intimidated to stay so as not to be cut off from family and friends. Fear exercises a restraint, but perfect love throws fear outside. (1 John 4:18) So through ongoing study of God's word, healthy association where possible, and constant prayer, your love for Jehovah and Jesus will continue to grow and the fear will be driven away, thrown out like so much trash.
The words given to the Israelites as they were about to enter their promised land are just as applicable today as they were back then.
(Deuteronomy 18:22) . . .When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
Reply by maxwellsmartjw on 2014-05-20 06:31:04
Amen Meleti..... excellent post.
SilverTop I feel your struggle dear sister. My personal struggle has been similar. Until the last year or so I managed to keep the results of several years of prayerful examination of each and every one of our teachings close to the vest (between my wife and myself), but in the last year I have found it increasingly more difficult to remain silent. We have a very active social life within our witness circle, and I find myself "slipping" (expressing my personal views) more often. Emails I've sent to JW buddies I grew up with (all elders) where I've been a little "edgy" have raised some eyebrows. So, I (and my wife) have decided I must cease sending them anything negative or the cat will be let out of the bag. In my angst, I've decided to take the plunge and begin expressing my views online. I posted here for the first time yesterday, and already feel a measure of relief. To be able to freely communicate my frustration, disappointment and dismay, especially toward the behavior of the current management team. Their increased visibility and flamboyance, recent highly speculative new light teachings, unethical policy on takeover of KH ownership and congregation funds on deposit.... the PR media move to have large conventions to make a statement, secular music at KH's and AH's.... like it or not friends, JW"s are now mainstream. I feel they anticipate many of the thinking class will be "smoked out" as we become more dismayed and outraged. My counter to their strategy will be that I will vent my frustration here, not in the KH or JW social setting. My counter will be, I will not be a buzz over new light, I will not praise or promote GB achievements, I will give only token support to the new KH funding arrangement, I will pour water on misguided enthusiasm, I will feature God's Word when teaching from the platform and when witnessing, I will show kindness and love to those who are struggling with life, losing a loved one, growing old, coping with a df'd or da'd family member, especially when grandchildren are involved. Basically, my strategy is to hang in here as "counterweight", and a voice of balance. I speak with many who are disillusioned about their situation, especially lifer-boomers who gave Jehovah their all in their younger years, and now find themselves ill-equipped for retirement and growing old in this system Many, as a result of poor career choice early on, find themselves without medical insurance. Some of these are so discouraged, they hold 60's-70's erroneous light (1975, generation of 1914) at least partially to blame for their predicament. Some have several years before 65 and medicare. What are they to do? Pray for good health until 65. If I can be a compassionate listener, I can agree with them and their issues, and let them know I have similar feelings. Maybe that will bring them some comfort. I've been told this on more than one occasion: "It helps to know that someone I view as spiritually mature has issues too". I find it highly therapeutic to condense my thoughts to writing. And even more therapeutic to share them, and now I can. I'm a born-in boomer with many decades of faithful service including special privileges, assembly parts, etc.
Sad to say, what you said about no one noticing your fade may be a good thing. I'm not encouraging a fade, and perhaps the concept of being a "counterweight" might inspire you to hang in there, but should you decide to follow through, a well managed fade is far better than the alternative in my opinion.
your brother, Max Smart
Comment by search4truth on 2014-05-04 08:00:26
Hi SilverTop. There are many who feel the same way like you. It's great your husband does feels same like you ,some of us are not that lucky and it's not good position to by in. All congregations are not same , for example in my cong we look after each other. Congregations of Jw around the Earth are full of good christians. But we are all under direction of the organisation who claims to speak for God. That's where the whole problem lies. Whether this claim is true or false is important question that needs to be answered. Please watch YouTube video by Peter Gregerson , there is a link in this thread and weight the evidence, as this may help you to clear your doubts. I do apologise for grammar mistakes , english is not my first language and wish you to find answers for your doubts.
Comment by SilverTop on 2014-05-04 10:50:10
Thank you all for the speed of your replies, the obvious Christian love, the loving kindness displayed. I read these replies with tears in my eyes, and deep gratitude in my heart because you all genuinely care, and I thank you. I will take your words to heart and apply them. I'm going over to YouTube right now and view that video. Again, thank you so much family.
Agape!
SilvertopReply by on 2014-05-05 07:51:27
Its so sad isnt it silvertop that we feel we have to make these type of decisions The brothers seem to quote hebrews 10 do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together but fail to see that the reason is to encourage one another to love and fine works .Sometimes we can feel like elIjah did among a nation that had turned to pagan worship . Jehovah am i the only one left . But you and your husband are not the only ones who feel the same way its suprising you may find others even local to you want out because of the way things are . That happened in my area and now we meet together and study together and its great .even if it doesnt happen we have the encouragement from the fine brothers and sisters on this site .Most important keep calling on god and jesus to help and keep on reading your bible warm christian love kev
Comment by BN on 2014-05-04 22:13:32
I read a great article about how Jehovah never asked for a temple; One that really opened my eyes! after more than 20 years inside the wt .. and it's only almost a year ago ..Jesus is truly leading his people out in the wilderness...but I guess, each one of us has to take the leap ..and that's easier said tham done .. http://www.blogger.com/profile/13281232149590681155
Comment by BeenMislead on 2014-05-05 09:48:08
To Observer17:
First off thank you for the reply.
However, you really did not tell me anything that I did not already know and have researched myself.
But the fact still remains that I have not seen:
1) Incontrovertible evidence, which means not open to question.
And/or
2) Indisputable proof, meaning impossible to question or doubt.
That the GB are Jehovah God’s Channel of communication on earth today.
This is the kind of evidence/proof Jehovah provided to his earthly spokesman in the past. So this is the kind of proof Jehovah and/or Jesus would provide for his channel of communication on earth today.
And in fact when you look at the man behind the curtain (that is look at the true unfiltered history of the organization) there is a lot of evidence that they are NOT Jehovah God’s Channel of communication on earth today.
Comment by Identifying the Man of Lawlessness | Beroean Pickets on 2014-07-02 13:48:12
[…] [iv] 1 Samuel 8:19; see also “They Asked for a King”. […]
Comment by A Feast to Jehovah | Beroean Pickets on 2015-05-12 12:00:10
[…] “We are determined to be loyal to Jehovah and to his organization. This organization has never disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God’s Word.” (ws11 7/15 p.12 par. 8; compare subheading: Standing On the Rock At Horeb) […]