A Feast to Jehovah

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2015-05-12 13:42:24

Isn't it amazing how clearly you can see once the illusion of truth has been exposed for what it really is...cleverly disguised deceit?
When we recognize this deception for what it is, let us not lose faith in our Heavenly Father. It is not our Father who has deceived us. It is the father of the lie, Satan himself. John 8:44.

• Reply by anonymous on 2015-05-15 09:05:52

  Its called being "sober". When you are "under the influence" you cannot rationalize.

Comment by hezekiah1 on 2015-05-12 14:02:24

Thanks very much Alex and Meleti. It continues to be an uncomfortable subject to deal with. We criticize others for their devotion to men or organizations, yet we have unabashedly done the same. Perhaps even perfecting it as we do it so effortlessly. Your comparison to the Israelites and how they built a golden calf is very appropriate. It just shows how we have strayed away from the truth so gradually that we didn't even notice it.
Thanks again

Comment by BN on 2015-05-12 14:18:41

'Then the second messenger blew his trumpet, and something that looked like a huge burning mountain was thrown into the sea ...' Rev 8:8
'In the last days the mountain of YHWH will be seen, and the House of God will be over the hills. It will be raised above highest mountains. And all the nations will go there.' Isa 2:2
'But we know that while we come from The God, the whole world is under the control of the evil one.' 1John 5:19

Comment by Skye on 2015-05-12 15:51:38

The WT says: "We are determined to be loyal to Jehovah and to his organisation."
True Christians say: "We are determined to be loyal to God and to Jesus Christ."

Comment by Christian on 2015-05-12 16:54:41

Great article Alex,
They really are becoming a laughing stock due to their continued hubris.
I am curious about who is producing this merchandise?
I couldn't see it on their website.
Is it just a group of brothers trying to make a buck by exploiting the JWORG brand or is the WTS doing it themselves?
Either way it's quite obscene!

• Reply by anderestimme on 2015-05-12 17:41:16

  I'm also curious where he found those items. They're certainly not on the jw.org site. I googled jw.org accessories and found several of those JW service supply sites, but none of them had any jw.org paraphernalia. One had a section No blood/jw.org but all it had were 'no blood' key chains. I wonder if they got a letter and yanked the products, or what. Interestingly, a search for 'jw.org lapel pin' came up with a link to the ultra-pro-organization site jwtalk where someone had posted this reference:
  *** km 9/74 p. 8 Question Box ***
  As Jehovah’s servants we are responsible to uphold the dignity of his name. This is done primarily by preaching and by setting a good example in Christian living. Should the public display of the Tetragrammaton detract from that, it would obviously not be fitting. Furthermore, we do not want to give others the impression that the Tetragrammaton is the symbol of Jehovah’s witnesses as a whole. We have no organizational symbol to identify ourselves but show that we are Jehovah’s Christian witnesses by living in harmony with God’s will.—John 13:35.
  My, how times have changed. At buttonsonline and jwstuff I hit the mother lode. Time did not allow me to search further, but there was a lot more.

• Reply by Alex Rover on 2015-05-12 18:08:56

  All pictures come from eBay listings. That's what I mean the commercial system will mourn the demise of the whore that is false religion.

• Reply by on 2015-05-13 15:55:06

  When I clicked on the pictures it took me to ebay. I fear we are becoming like the television evangelists that we have condemned over and over again due to their avarice. The likening JW.org to Noah is disgraceful. Noah and his small family were truly faithful to Jehovah -- he spoke directly to Noah, he did not use writings or sayings of other men to provide instructions for the Ark.

• Reply by umbertoecho on 2015-05-14 15:19:42

  Ministry Ideaz, Type this in and you should come upon a site that deal in quite a lot of merchandise. It has been going on for quite a few years

Comment by Dorcas on 2015-05-12 17:04:55

I agree with Hezekiah. This subject makes me very uncomfortable and has for quite some time. We have become the very thing we used to speak against, idolizing humans and their man made institutions.
If we do it, it's okay but if other religions do it, it's wrong. Hmmm. Something wrong with this line of reasoning. Thank you both.

Comment by on 2015-05-12 19:01:52

its some of these qoutes get me . The ark of salvation is gods organisation .Noahs family had to stay close to an organisation .if we were to draw away from jehovahs organisation there would be no where else to go for salvation . What bible verses are these statements based on .kev

Comment by I am Free on 2015-05-12 19:20:36

Thank you for another informative article.
On one of the Tv.jw.org broadcasting a few months back it showed Anthony Morris III and his wife out in the door to door ministry. His wife was wearing one of the Caleb and Sophie pins. All I could thing was WOW, at least people who are wearing crosses cause people think of the one who died a horrific death for mankind. Not some man made cartoon. They might as well just wear Mickie Mouse pins.

Comment by peely on 2015-05-12 20:48:03

Thank you, Alex and Meleti, for exposing the idolatry.
“What profit is an idol
when its maker has shaped it,
a metal image, a teacher of lies?
For its maker trusts in his own creation
when he makes speechless idols!
Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake;
to a silent stone, Arise!
Can this teach?
Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver,
and there is no breath at all in it. Hab 2:18,19
They have turned their backs to Me and not their faces. Though I taught them time and time again, they do not listen and receive discipline. Jer 32:33
Jer 23:11 - because both prophet and priest are ungodly,
even in My house I have found their evil.
This is the Lord’s declaration.
Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. Rom 13:11
And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. Rev 13:15
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. Rev 19:20

• Reply by Skye on 2015-05-15 05:01:57

  I think if we can get away from the idea that prophecy is all about Jehovah's Witnesses, then we can begin to get a clearer idea of what Jesus was really saying.

Comment by qspf on 2015-05-12 22:45:24

This was a remarkable article. You provide some compelling evidence regarding idolatry, and did so in impressively few words.
I was wondering about the general topic of idolatry and idolizing things. I found a few definitions for "idolize":
- to regard with blind adoration
- to worship as a god
- to love or admire to excess
- to regard with great or uncritical admiration or devotion
- to look up to someone as a hero
- to love or admire excessively; adore
Some aspects of these definitions caught my eye: "blind", "excessive" and "uncritical".
The 'excessive' aspect refers to admiring someone or something more than they deserve, or to such an excessive extent that it is detrimental to the one doing the admiring. Do we see JWs idolizing their organization in this way? I believe so.
The 'blind' and 'uncritical' aspects refer to admiration that is blind to the faults and flaws of that which is admired, and being unwilling or unable to look critically either for faults or to verify that the object of admiration really deserves to receive it. One source describe idolizing someone as thinking they are perfect and can do no wrong.
If salvation is attributed to an organization of men, then those men are taking upon themselves a role that belongs to God and Christ. That is something they have no right to do.
We can argue about whether the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" is properly used. Some will say that Jesus told his followers to be witnesses of HIM, and by adopting this name in 1931, we are defying Christ's instructions. For the Jews, they properly belonged to Jehovah, not to any group of men. Christians certainly belong to Christ, and since God and Christ are in perfect union, there is no real conflict if we belong to both of them. However, we see that Paul made his famous appeal in 1 Corinthians chapter 1 not to claim (or even feel) that we belong to anyone but Christ. And he ends this passage with, "He that boasts, let him boast in the Lord." (The NWT uses "Jehovah" here to translate "Kyrios", which may reference God or Christ.) In any case, scriptures leave no room for an organization to claim ownership of Christians, and we certainly have no liberty to boast in an organization.
Then we have the 1985-revised version of the baptism questions:
(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?
So, baptism does not identify us as a Christian, since baptism in the name of the Son is not directly mentioned, nor does it identify us as one of God's children, since baptism in the name of the Father is not directly mentioned either. (That fact makes the model prayer problematic for non-anointed JWs. If we believe what WT says, addressing God in prayer as "Our Father" or "Our Father Jehovah" is improper for us. We should be saying "Our Friend in Heaven ...".)
Since the Governing Body consists of men claiming to be anointed by spirit, but are not inspired prophets, yet leading this organization, then JW.ORG is the religion lead by these spirit-anointed uninspired spirit-directed men. Are we clear on that? And, if these men are actually "directed" by the "spirit", how does it happen, exactly? They have said many times that they don't get messages from God and don't have special insights. So, how do they do it? Magic? I ask that facetiously, but really, what is their explanation for it? It does in fact seem like they are implying that something supernatural happens, but they won't come out and say what it is.
So what does this baptism event signify? It appears like we become the property of JW.ORG. Does that seem right to you? Would that not be a case of the organization putting itself in a place to which it does not belong?
Your article has the quote, "Then do not allow the lies from false teachers to turn you against the organization [JW.ORG]". I can agree with this statement, but only up to a point. Certainly, no one should act for or against any organization or anything else based on lies. However, their warning is based on the presumption that JW.ORG only tells the truth, and thus anyone opposed to them "must" be liars who should be ignored. Regrettably, the truthfulness of WT does not stand up to scrutiny. When people begin to realize that, perhaps they can accept that those who dissent from JW.ORG are not necessarily their enemies, as the organization would have everyone believe.
Finally, WT loves to quote Proverbs 4:18 to justify its changing doctrines, claiming that this stumbling around of men's ideas is actually "increased light", but 1 John 1:5 refutes that: "God is light and there is no darkness at all in union with him." To attribute mistakes and changing doctrines to a God of light that does not change? There is only one word for that: Blasphemy.
The Watchtower has repeatedly shown itself to be an organization of mere men, built on a foundation of lies, blasphemy and idolatry. Is that what you are afraid of leaving? Is that who you are afraid of being "shamed" by?
We should let Hebrews 12 encourage us: "... look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Indeed, consider closely the one who has endured such contrary talk by sinners against their own interests, that YOU may not get tired and give out in YOUR souls."
As fearful as they want to make it appear, we should not fear these men or fear being shunned by them. We ought to shun them first. Easier said than done, I know. But then, standing up for real truth has never been easy. Perhaps as more of such articles appear, it will strengthen the resolve of the readers of this forum to do just that.

• Reply by Skye on 2015-05-13 03:37:58

  According to scripture, the reality for true Christians is - "In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evildoers and imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived." 2 Tim 3:12,13

• Reply by anderestimme on 2015-05-13 19:09:24

  You make a lot of good points qspf, but I have to take issue with this one thing:
  "The Watchtower has repeatedly shown itself to be an organization of mere men, built on a foundation of lies, blasphemy and idolatry. Is that what you are afraid of leaving?"
  While I agree with the part about mere men, I do not see the organization of JWs as being "built on a foundation of lies, blasphemy and idolatry". Guys like CT Russell may have been misguided and certainly did promote, unwittingly, falsehoods, but I believe they were sincere and they were blessed for being willing to make sacrifices for what they felt was truth. I do not believe they lied. The people in the congregation of my youth were sincere, wonderful people who, along with myself, I now know were mistaken on various issues. But they also were trying hard to do what was right, and I believe God viewed us favorably for our sincerity, if not for our accuracy of understanding. We were not liars, and if we were ever guilty of being idolaters or blasphemers, it was out of ignorance. Not everyone had the same rosy experience, but many did and stayed or became JWs for that reason. The organization has many things wrong with it and the situation is steadily getting worse, but that doesn't mean it is rotten to the core and always has been.
  The question of whether those of us who are still "in" should leave, or are exhibiting cowardice for not leaving has been discussed before on this site. Some have felt conscience-bound to leave, some have felt that they can still be of some encouragement to the brothers, some have felt that disassociating themselves frees them from the power of the org, some have felt the exact opposite. It is not for any of us to decide for others what they should do or criticize their decision one way or the other. Personally, I trust that my Father, who has given me clear indications of his will for me in the past will let me know what I should do and when. It is certainly no one else's job to tell anyone what they should do.
  Sorry to make a big deal about this one brief point. I really enjoy your comments and appreciate the effort you put into them.

  • Reply by qspf on 2015-05-13 19:37:59

    My apologies if my choice of words was inappropriate. I agree that it is no one's place to say what someone should or should not do with regard to whether they stay in the organization. I know a decision to disassociate oneself is extremely difficult, far more than it should be.
    I also realize that when I say the organization is built on lies, among other things, that it sounds like a harsh judgment, which it is. However, I have run across articles more than once to the effect that Watchtower knows that some of its doctrines are wrong, but they won't change them. For instance, it has be cited more than once that they know 607 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction is wrong, that the 2,520 years from Daniel is number they support only because the Millerites and the Second Adventists did it first, and so on. I do draw a line between mere "mistakes" and intentional lies.
    I would not brand every misstep of the WT as a lie. But, consider all the proclaimed dates, like 1874, 1878, 1914, 1920, 1925, etc. Many, many times, these were proclaimed as "God's dates, which could not be changed or varied by so much as one year". It wasn't until the last 1920's that 1874 as the coming of Christ was finally dropped.
    Consider Russell, who seemed like a basically decent guy, was engaged in numerology, with respect to using the pyramids to foretell the future. When this was dropped, it was like, "ho hum, what was that we were saying about pyramids? I forget ...".
    Consider Rutherford, who spread false accusations that the board of directors set up by Russell were acting improperly and had no authority, when Rutherford himself also lacked the same authority. Rutherford also falsely accused Olin Moyle of apostasy, when all he did was truthfully tell Rutherford he was treating the Bethel staff abusively and was drinking too much. Moyle was railroaded, and successfully won his case against Rutherford.
    And more recently, look how many times the WT says that 1914 was like a "pivotal date in history" but that "the Bible students were unsure what to expect". That is a lie. They totally knew 100% what they were expecting - it just didn't happen. The fact that 1874 was the date the Bible students thought was Christ's coming is all but totally ignored. These are just a few examples, which are well documented.
    I understand that we must tread carefully if the claim of "lying" is applied to anyone. However, if we said the Watchtower was founded on the basis of religious error instead of saying "lies", would it make up in any way for what they have done? Would that make things any better?

    • Reply by anderestimme on 2015-05-14 12:03:19

      (Luke 23:34) “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
      Yes, I think intentionality makes a big difference. Not only because I plan on using that defense on judgment day, but also because it gives me some level of unembittered peace of mind as I now evaluate the influence the organization has had on my life. I certainly agree with you that there has been some level of dishonesty over the years from the GB and their predecessors. I believe it has increased of late. But I stop well short of saying that the organization is rotten to the core, and always has been. That was my only balking point.

Comment by Wild Olive on 2015-05-14 06:20:44

The bro and sis who at this time follow the GB without question are in a very similar position to the Israelites,they are serving their golden calf like visible organization, and just like the Israelites their carcasses are goingto fall in the wilderness of this system without seeing their promised land of the new system,and when they are ressurected they will still be sinners in need of redemption ( did I just create a type/antitype)
So where in reality has everyone been led? Up a dead end.Its going to get down to Jehovah's mercy for a hope to exsist for the 8 million default idolaters that think they are pleasing God .

• Reply by BN on 2015-05-14 14:03:33

  Can you see who they are the ones saying 'peace and security'? For years I wondered about this scripture, since it did not fit the wt's explanations ... But if we start thinking that since the Anointed One walked this earth we have been living in a spiritual time opposite to the physical with the israelites ...So we have to think spiritualy ...The signs for spiritual jews are spiritual.. The nation of Israel thaught they had peace with God Who are the ones thinking that today? Who are the ones thinking everybody else is going to die in what they think Armageddon is? 'We have peace, you have not'!

  • Reply by Christian on 2015-05-14 17:00:02

    That is an interesting point BN.
    And it is certainly true of the WTS at least
    Always claiming the we live in "a spiritual paradise" and touting the protection of "Jehovah's earthly organization"
    A "strong delusion" to be sure 2 Thess.2:11

  • Reply by peely on 2015-05-15 11:20:09

    I agree, BN, we do need to look at the spiritual and symbolic side for fulfillment in our day. Once that reality hits us it becomes very clear as to how the scriptural condemnations and prophesies fit the organization.
    Another thing that use to bother me greatly was why were there were no apologies for misleading the flock when “light” became outdated and replaced with “new” understanding. They pass the guilt torch onto the congregation if "new light" is questioned.
    “My people have been lost sheep.
    Their shepherds have allowed them to go astray.
    They have wandered around in the mountains.
    They have roamed from one mountain and hill to another.
    They have forgotten their resting place.
    All who encountered them devoured them.
    Their enemies who did this said, ‘WE ARE NOT LIABLE FOR PUNISHMENT!
    For those people have sinned against the Lord, their true pasture.
    They have sinned against the Lord in whom their ancestors trusted.’ Jer 50;6,7
    So, if we don't "wait on Jehovah" we are sinning "against the Lord in whom their ancestors trusted"
    Like a madman who shoots firebrands and deadly arrows, so is a person who deceives his neighbor, and says, “Was I not only joking?” Prov 26:18,19
    This scripture addresses it all:
    Thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who lead my people astray; When they have something to bite with their teeth, They cry, “Peace,” But against him who puts nothing in their mouths They declare holy war. Micah 3:5 Rev 13:7
    When we do not “bow down” or feed the idol, we are persecuted – disfellowshipped - for serving Christ instead of the organization. Rev 12:17; 14:4; 20:4
    Hear the word of the Lord,
    you who respect what he has to say!
    Your countrymen, who hate you
    and exclude you, SUPPOSEDLY FOR THE SAKE OF MY NAME,
    say, “May the Lord be glorified,
    then we will witness your joy.”
    But they will be put to shame. Isa 66:5
    Jer 50 goes on to say:
    “People of Judah, get out of Babylon quickly!
    Leave the land of Babylonia!
    Be the first to depart! Jer 50:8
    It is the same for us today. Rev 18:2,4,10

Comment by agapeheartvisions on 2015-05-14 18:54:03

The "Organization" is fast becoming exactly like the rest of Christiandom which they are OH so quick to condemn!
LaRhonda

Comment by kev on 2015-05-15 13:17:35

To be honest i dont really know wether or not the organisation has become an idol . i dont know wether the brothers worship it . I dont know what is in thier hearts and minds . I do know that we should not judge people . I do know that we should try to love those even who persecute us . . I do want to love the brothers and sisters i tried so much . To my mind the bible itself particularly the NT has always been the yardstick to measure ourselves by its all i was really interested in learning . I really dont understand where the brothers are coming from with this concept of being dedicated to an organisation . Of being obedient to an organisation . Worshiping god through an organisation . This concept of the governing body being gods spokesman . I can only go on what the bible itself says . And hand on heart i can honestly say i have never read anything in it that would suggest these things . If someone has then please inform me and if im wrong i will conform . I was asked the question would i do whatever the governing body said i replied not if it was against the scriptures or my conscience . What is wrong with that reply ? I was asked have i identified the faithful slave .I could not answer i do not know who the faithful slave is until jesus declares him as such . . They disfellowshipped me as an apostate . To be honest i could not handle it anymore i wanted out anyway . I spoke to one of my best friends in the congregation the other day he ignored me in the street . The last thing the elders said to me is that the difference between you and us is that we are dedicated to the organisation and your not . Im sorry brothers i just dont understand where you are coming from .we are just on a completely different wavelength . Ive tried to be genuine but i just dont get this concept . I hope for the brothers sakes its not become idolatry kev

Comment by peely on 2015-05-15 13:46:46

Dear Kev,
My heart breaks for you. This is the tribulation we face – it is the Great Spiritual Tribulation, do you see?
Remember Solomon’s idea of building the Temple?
He said, “I have built You a lofty house,
And a place for Your dwelling forever.” 2 Chron 6:1
This wasn’t God’s idea when he said, "Moreover, I tell you that the Lord will build a house for you." 1 Chron 17.
God tolerated it and gave his ordinances to follow. I believe this is where man gets the idea to begin with when firing up an “organization” to worship their God. As with Solomon and his efforts, it came to nigh. We know the greater Temple is with Christ.
Acts 7:44-51 –
“Our fathers had the tabernacle of testimony in the wilderness, just as He who spoke to Moses directed him to make it according to the pattern which he had seen. And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David. David found favor in God’s sight, and asked that he might find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob. But it was Solomon who built a house for Him. However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as the prophet says:
‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is the footstool of My feet;
What kind of house will you build for Me?’ says the Lord,
‘Or what place is there for My repose?
‘Was it not My hand which made all these things?’
“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.”
We must tell them, Kev; out of love for each and every one of our brothers and sisters. Your disfellowshipping fulfills prophesy, as did mine and so many others. John 16:2
Christian love,
peely

• Reply by Skye on 2015-05-15 14:33:28

  Hi Peely, The good news of the kingdom of God is to be preached in all the inhabited earth. In view of that, I find that your explanation of prophecy, in that it is so connected with the Jehovah's Witness Organisation narrows it down too much.

  • Reply by peely on 2015-05-15 16:10:57

    Hello dear brother Skye,
    I at one time felt the same, Skye, but maybe we DO need to narrow it down. There are a people of God’s Chosen under a Babylon…..once again, and as has happened before, another remnant is being called out. Christ came not only as a sacrifice for all, but to build his Temple….of chosen ones – again, God’s inheritance. THESE are the ones who must take hold of the good news – a news preached to the land of God’s nation….as it has always been.
    oikoumenhs oikoumenEs G3625 n_ Gen Sg f beING-HOMED inhabited-earth – Rev 3:10
    oikoumenh oikoumenE G3625 n_ Dat Sg f beING-HOMED inhabited-earth – Matt 24:14
    It is a different word than other Greek scriptures for "earth".
    Matt 24:14 – one definition of earth here is “the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians.” Is this not what was meant in Jesus’ day? How far was the message declared then? Look at Acts 17:6
    This is the rebuilding of the Temple – the ultimate and final Temple of God. The earthly temple was a “copy and shadow of heavenly things” Heb 8:5 That should tell us something; in fact, everything we’ve read about God’s people being captive and how he calls out a remnant should tell us something about the fulfillment of Revelation. The chosen race of God and Christ are those who build this glorious Temple. 1 Pet 2:9 It then brings life to all mankind, but it is a choice of God’s as to who will be part of the Temple. It is a time of sifting, the good news is brought to the spiritual house of Jacob; to flee Babylon, regroup and answer the call of Christ as he gathers together his Bride, those that he has chosen and only those faithful to the call.
    Where are anointed ones found, in all of Christendom? 1 John 5:19 Have you heard of such a thing or are they stuck in an organization under oppressive rule comparative to the wicked slave who are also anointed ones? The WT is the only organization or religion that I can see to succinctly fulfill the roles of Revelation’s Beasts and Daniel’s words in chapter 8 verse 25, as well as fit like a glove the same type of captivity that God’s early people experienced.
    Everything about this Temple building is spiritual. Satan is already in control of the world where idolatry and lies abound – yet always in the scriptures it is with God’s own chosen people – heritage – anointed ones -that their practice of idolatry and lies has incensed him so. Out of his lovingkindness does he then call out a remnant. It is time we all – anointed or not – get out of Babylon.
    I read this on a Jewish site about the role of priests within the temple:
    “ But more importantly, by attending to the various aspects of the Divine service, the priests serve as a conduit to bring down God's radiant blessing and influence into this world.”
    Little do they know that with Christ as High Priest and his servants at his side just how even beyond true those particular words will have their fulfillment with God’s finished Temple. Rev 22:1-5
    If we get lost to the meaning of Gen 3:15, the day will arrive as a thief in the night, right?
    with Christian love,
    peely

• Reply by kev on 2015-05-15 15:33:55

  Thanks peely your comments are appreciated . .Its been a few years now and we move on at least i dont feel angry any more . Its the poor brothers who are the victims really even though they dont realise it . Theres a few of us around this area now who have seen things in a different light and its these brothers and sisters who ive tried to reach out to to And offer some sort of support . Ephesians 4 perhaps its just the way its meant to be .. and the disfellowshipping does fullfill prophecy as you said .the jews were the same . John 9 v 22 . Cheers kev

  • Reply by peely on 2015-05-15 16:13:58

    Luke 21:28
    love to you, brother

Comment by Skye on 2015-05-15 18:18:14

Hi Peely, I see you have a lot to say about the Great Tribulation. I always find that when trying to explain things, it's helpful to have a starting point and work out from there. As Jesus' teachings show, simplicity is key. It is always good, I think, to keep in mind that the Bible is a book for everybody in which God speaks for the purpose of being understood.
I have already expressed my thoughts previously with regard to the Great Tribulation and Matthew 24, but for the sake of simplicity and clarity I will refer to them again.
We will now follow the sequence. Matt 24:15,16,21,30,31 - When you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel standing in the holy place flee to the mountains .... for then there will be great tribulation ....immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened .... and "then" they will see the son of man coming in power .... and he shall send forth his angels .... to gather the elect.
Of particular significance is the adverb "immediately" in v 29 because this limits the GT of v15-24 with the cosmic signs of v 29 and the second coming - in quick succession. Note there is no gap between the tribulation, heavenly signs and the second coming. It follows then that Jesus was not referring to 70 AD.
It's when we arrive at Matt 24:15 when we see specific signs, "when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, spoken of through the prophet Daniel ...." Jesus is here citing Dan 9:27; 11:31; 12:11 where the abomination is predicted at the end of the age, 1290 days before the resurrection in Dan 12:2.
The temple is to be rebuilt in Jerusalem at the beginning of the 7 years, and into the 3 and half years the abomination of desolation is set in the holy place (temple) by the antichrist, and according to Daniel and Matthew the Great Tribulation begins. This temple, yet to be built, is the temple that Jesus predicted would be destroyed and not the temple in 70AD.
Although we are experiencing difficult times, we are not at the GT yet. If we believe otherwise we will be misled and "unprepared". The Great Tribulation will be terrifying - apostasy, persecution of the church, betrayals; a time of deceit, lawlessness; a time of destruction to an extraordinary degree; a time unprecedented in human history. A "time of distress such as has never occurred" (Dan 12:1), and as described by Christ "unequalled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equalled again" (Matt 24:21).
I have some scriptural thoughts with regard to the temple which I will write later.

• Reply by Skye on 2015-05-15 18:36:56

  Hi Peely, About the temple - in scripture sometimes this refers to a literal temple building or individual believer, church. For example, in 2 Cor 6:16 when Paul refers to a believer or the church as "a temple of God", note that there is no definite article. But in 2 Thess 2:4 and Rev 11:1 he speaks of "the temple of God", note definite article and is referring to a literal temple building. And this clear understanding fits with the prophecies of Jesus Christ and the prophet Daniel.

• Reply by pearldoxsey on 2015-05-26 17:01:28

  Jesus added, "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved".
  Many assume that this refers to a physical salvation, as if the tribulation were a physical threat. BUt consider what Jesus had to say about spiritual salvation...
  Luke13:23,24...
  "And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter through the narrow gate; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able."
  "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
  So... "few" are saved... spiritually.
  This is especially true, during the Greatest sifting Tribulation of all time,
  due to the prevalence of false prophets (Matt.24:4,5,24,25) embued with great power to deceive (Matt.7:22,23; 24:24; 2Thess.2:9-12; Rev.13:4,11; 19:20).
  In order to recognize this Tribulation, one would need "discernment" of perilous spiritual realities (Matt.24:15).

Comment by BN on 2015-05-16 15:41:14

dear skye .. more and more i realize that the bible is not a book for everyone .. i see it in the way its written .. i see it in the way some of the letters in nt is adressed .. like judas' who is to the 'called ones', james' to the '12 tribes' ...and then we have the Anointed One's own word of ' hearing and not understanding' .. How everybody has to be granted understanding from Him .. and then its understandable that He first grants it to His faithful anointed ones .. those who is in the race to be the firstborn .. soon it will be very obvious who these are .. but all of us have to use our discernment and open our eyes to the Anointed One's truth ..listen after His voice ..since He IS the truth..like i said before, now its a spirutal nation with spiritual fulfillments .. Many truths are hidden deeply inside the scriptures and will only be revealed if we beg for them with a heart ready to accept them .. Acts 28:27; Mark 4:11, 12 ..So, the Bible is for everyone with the right heartcondition .. those the Anointed One grants understanding .. loving others is something everyone can do - with or without understanding .. Rev 10:17; Heb 9:28; Rev 22:17

• Reply by Skye on 2015-05-16 17:43:15

  Hi BN, It's true that the Bible does contain some scriptures which are difficult to understand, nonetheless it is not a book of unsearchable wisdom, rather it is information, teachings and advise provided for us by God.
  You're right of course that not everyone would understand the Bible's message. "This is why I speak to them in parables: Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: you will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people's hearts have become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes ............" Matt 13:13-15. We can see that their blindness is "self-induced" by a choice not to listen carefully to Jesus' words.
  At Mark 1:14,15 and Luke 4:43 Jesus tells us the reason why he came to the earth. The gospel of the Kingdom is the good news, that we, by obeying Jesus in faith can live forever with him in his earthly Kingdom.

Comment by FutureMan on 2015-05-17 01:57:30

Yesterday, I got quite a surprise when a member of my family that I have not seen for over 7 years appeared in a shopping center that I frequent but as for him (my JW fleshly brother) he lives over 120 kms from where I live.
The chances of me arriving at the shopping center when he was there was very small indeed, yet there he was coming down the shopping mall towards me.
At the time I had my wife with me who I was pushing along in a wheel chair as she suffers from an Osteoarthritis condition and is unable to walk over long distances.
I believe that he did see me but was going to walk right on by without even acknowledging me or my wife.
But I prempted him by speaking to him and jokingly asking him what he was doing there and all he could manage in a space of about three seconds was "here he is, I have got to keep going" and this without even acknowledging my wife's own presence.
My wife is not even disfellowshiped as am I, so there was really no legitimate reason for him not to say at least a hello to her.
This hurt me quite considerably, but it is what I have come to expect from JW members, including my own family members who worship and follow the mandate and policies of the JW.ORG golden calf-like idol.
The hard-hearted and authoritarian policies of this organization overrides the Christ-like love that should be an integral part of a Christian's personality.

• Reply by on 2015-05-18 12:34:50

  They do the same to me and my wife and shes never even been a witness . It happened again the other day a brother well known to both of us ignored her as well because he did not want to talk to me . What a shocking witness to those on the outside of the religion. Colossians 4 v 5 and 6 and 2 peter 2 v12, kev

Comment by Humiliore on 2015-05-17 16:22:21

For all your JW.ORG needs!
http://www.jwstuff.org/#!jw-convention-gifts/cs9
Note the new "Imitate Jesus" bottle opener/magnet!
I think I'm going to puke.

Comment by peely on 2015-05-18 14:35:02

Hello Skye,
I tend to agree with BN that the bible is not for everyone. ANYONE could pick up the Bible and get good advice to apply in this life. My son gave me a book once called the Jefferson Bible. It was Jefferson’s endeavor to “distill Jesus’ teachings”; those he considered “diamonds” of wisdom he kept, while he discarded the parts he considered “a dunghill”. I am sure there are many, like Jefferson, who pick and choose what they determine as appropriate for their own needs.
We know better. The Father looks for the right heart condition to pour out the understanding of His Word. Ps 11:4; 1 Pet 3:12; Prov 21:2; Deut 29:4. Since this gate to finding life is narrow, we know many will not choose to go through it. Matt 7:13,14
It is the hidden meaning that what we dig for, a begging for Holy Spirit enabling a deeper understanding – an understanding that goes beyond just advice. We are then aware of the bible’s rich source of eternal life. Prov 2:4; John 6:27; Matt.13:44,36,51; Luke8:8-11.
In all three scriptures you site regarding the word temple, it is the Greek word 3485, and with a definite article in all three, with your first scripture using "the" in most all translations. I think I’m missing your point, perhaps you could help me there. Are you looking toward the rebuilding of a literal Temple?
That Greek word is also used here:
" in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." Eph 2:21,22
And here: Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. John 2:19-21
Before I get carried away with what I suppose you are referring to, worshipping in spirit and truth leaves no room for a physical fulfillment here. God’s Temple is not only his chosen priesthood of whom have the spirit of God in their hearts, but it IS the Father and the Lamb. Rev 21:22; 2 Cor 3:3; Rom 2:29
1 Cor 3:16 - Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
Skye, your words:
“The Great Tribulation will be terrifying – apostasy, persecution of the church, betrayals; a time of deceit, lawlessness; a time of destruction to an extraordinary degree; a time unprecedented in human history. A “time of distress such as has never occurred” (Dan 12:1), and as described by Christ “unequalled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equalled again” (Matt 24:21).”
Unprecedented is an accurate description, no doubt. Again, if we take this literally, are we worshipping in spirit and truth? 2 Cor 10:4,5
Dear Skye, what is your spiritual stand? Are you disfellowshipped? Have you lost loved ones for the sake of Christ? Consider kev and FutureMan’s words here and think of the many who have left the organization only to lose spouses and children and all loved ones. Consider the emotional anxiety before the exit even happens and continues outside the organization. Following Christ, if that is indeed the reason one leaves, brings with it intense persecution as he promised would happen. Can you imagine living with a spouse you deeply love, only to realize he or she cannot share your new found love for Christ? You must make the decision of shaking up your life by choosing Christ or your mate in order to quell your loathing for an organization that is full of hypocrisy (“a time of deceit”) and idolatry (the law of Christ is absent there – “lawlessness”). Is this not an upheaval (earthquakes in one place and another) of a tremendous proportion in your own life?
The “persecution of the church” is the trampling of the Temple by the disgusting thing standing in a, or the, holy place (holy is holy in God's eyes) – the anointed within the organization under siege by the man of lawlessness who is the organization itself.
2 Tim 2:3,4 - Take your share of suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one in military service gets entangled in matters of everyday life; otherwise he will not please the one who recruited him.
This IS the divisive tribulating most powerful battle we face, that of suffering for the sake of Christ. In its unequaled uniqueness, all characteristics of it can be explained symbolically through the deep layers found in the bible; symbolically and spiritually is where the war is fought. 2 Cor 10:4,5; Eph.6:10-17
Satan longs for us to cast our eyes beyond the spiritual fulfillment and into his earthly realm where he is in control. Matt 16:4
http://pearl-sign.blogspot.com/2012/05/testing.html?m=0
love,
peely

• Reply by Skye on 2015-05-18 15:30:28

  Hi Peely, Thanks for your reply. I'm really busy at present and I don't have time to read your comments as much as I would like to, but I hope to get round to it eventually, and so I apologise for that. You and I do definitely have differences in our understanding of scripture, that is clear. However, I hope to catch up with you soon, and thanks again. We'll keep in touch.
  With love, Skye

Comment by peely on 2015-05-18 17:29:34

Hey, don't worry, Skye. We can catch up at a better time :)
peely

Comment by pearldoxsey on 2015-05-26 17:16:25

"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.
And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
And it was given to him to give breath (spirit-directed) to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed."
(Revelation 13:8,11,14,15)

Comment by imacountrygirl2 on 2015-05-26 19:12:46

peely, I am a bit confused about your comments. You said "The “persecution of the church” is the trampling of the Temple by the disgusting thing standing in a, or the, holy place (holy is holy in God’s eyes) – the anointed within the organization under siege by the man of lawlessness who is the organization itself."
Are you implying that the Watchtower is somehow a special organization in the fulfilment of Scripture?
pearldoxsey, would you mind making a personal comment with your scriptures to establish what your point is? I'm sorry, but I'm not always good at drawing conclusions.

• Reply by pearldoxsey on 2015-05-26 20:32:04

  Many comments that have been made here, brought up the idolatry given to the "spirit-directed" image of the Watchtower organization.
  I thought it appropriate, to point to the words of God, when they refer to this illusion of mass deception. As scripture relates, the two-horned wild beast of Rev.13:11, fosters the power of the tangible ten-horned Beast, and it's idolatrous Image/Idol (Rev.13:14,15).
  The two-horned "false prophet" and it's role as benefactor to the ten-horned wild beast, is also mentioned in Rev.19:20 and Dan.8:24. The false prophet embues the Beast with life; and it's image, with divinity. It empowers the Beast with authority to kill defectors on behalf of it's own image.
  My finding is that every entity and drama that takes place within Revelation's illustrations, are telling the same story, over and over, in different ways. I have drawn this conclusion, partly by an adherence to scripture for each interpretive key, to open each description given. I endorse Gen.40:8, which states that interpretations belong to God.
  The tailored application of Rev.13, and the two "wild beasts" it describes (one from the "sea" and the other from the "earth") to the WTBTS and it's Governing Body, becomes increasingly clear, as each divine description is interpreted in detail.
  It was my feeling, that in the midst of many human perspectives and expressions, God's reference to this topic, deserves mention.
  My peculiar interpretation hinges upon a scriptural definition of:
  "earth", "sea", "two", "horns", "lamb", "dragon", "signs given ability to perform"/"key",
  "in the presence of"/"in sight of", "make an Image to", "wound of the sword", "come to life", "give breath", "image of the beast would even speak", "killed".
  That is not to say that this application and fulfillment are unique to the Watchtower, but I do believe that this pattern fully applies to them, as they emerge as the final players of these roles.
  Of course, I don't expect these assertions to be taken at my word,
  but if the scriptures are adhered to for a definition of these symbolic terms, (as well as the rest of Revelation's images), a clear picture of Revelations' scenario emerges, as well as whose feet the unique shoes fit.

• Reply by peely on 2015-06-02 10:12:35

  Good to see you, ICG. I hope all is well with you :)
  Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you. It is true that I am implying that the Watchtower has a hand in the fulfillment of scripture. If we know the identity of God’s Temple today, we can understand the symbolic significance of the “trampling” I am referring to. There are those anointed ones within the organization that are under a “captivity in the form of a spiritual Babylon” as a result of arrogant dominance by their brothers. Anointed ones who, when deemed faithful are as we know, the makeup of the Bride of Christ – priests that will serve in Zion. Eph 2:21; 1 Cor 6:19; 1 Pet 2:9,10
  These ones are God’s special possession, yet the same is happening today to his inheritance as has happened in the past. Foreigners have taken control over his “Temple”, that Temple being anointed who have fallen for lies and idolatry and in return, preach the lies taught by their brothers who have lorded it over them ("faithful and discreet slave"). The Organization, holds them in place, separating them from their one and only Master and High Priest, Christ, and threatening them with "death" (a spiritual death) for choosing Christ and the Father over the organization. Heb 8:5,6 Truly, an ingenious recipe for a spiritual captivity and seclusion from pure worship, devised originally by the Father of the Lie. Rev 20:4
  “In addition to all your other detestable practices, you brought foreigners uncircumcised in heart and flesh into my sanctuary, desecrating my temple while you offered me food, fat and blood, and you broke my covenant.8 Instead of carrying out your duty in regard to my holy things, you put others in charge of my sanctuary. 9 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.” Ezek 44:7-9 Zeph 3:4; Mal 2:11; 2 Chron 13:9; 36:14
  Who are the foreigners today? It is those in charge of following the GB’s direction – the elder body, spiritual “Gentiles”. Thess 2:4,3 They, under the direction of the GB, can “rule” over God’s anointed ones by teaching only what is outlined through the GB’s guidelines (Harlot, which is also the Wicked Slave, riding the Wild Beast) As a result, the “man of lawlessness” resides in God’s chosen “Temple” those spiritual Jews who are not only individually God’s Temple, but are part of the Temple as a whole.
  Is this such a big deal? Well, considering how God has been incensed by transgressions on his temple in the past, it IS a big deal. Anointed ones have rationalized in their mind that the WT is God’s organization, allowing others to serve in the role of “priests” (elders are considered appointed by Holy Spirit and regarded as “princes”) replacing their daily sacrifices or the “constant feature” with defiled offerings to God. It is the setup of the "abomination" spoken of in Daniel, and the prophetic fulfillment for our day. Heb 13:15; Dan 12:11: Mark 13:14
  For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. 8 But you have turned aside from the way. You have caused many to stumble by your instruction. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts, 9 and so I make you despised and abased before all the people, inasmuch as you do not keep my ways but show partiality in your instruction.” Mal 2:7-9
  “But didn’t you drive out the priests of the Lord, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and make priests of your own as the peoples of other lands do? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams may become a priest of what are not gods.” 2 Chron 13:9
  “Furthermore, all the leaders of the priests and the people became more and more unfaithful, following all the detestable practices of the nations and defiling the temple of the Lord, which he had consecrated in Jerusalem.” 2 Chron 36:14
  Satan created this trap to “do in” as many as possible, the seed of Christ Gen 3:15 Remember the 4th and last beast is unique that Daniel speaks of in Dan 7:7,19,23. How is it a kingdom? Anointed ones, proven faithful, are promised to serve in Zion, “made to be a kingdom and priests” Rev 5:9,10. Taking that knowledge, the GB anointed ones have established their own “kingdom” ruling over Christ (Dan 8:25) Also, each “Beast” that Satan has ever devised has been in regard to destroying God’s special people and not that of the entire inhabited earth. It is the same today. It appears to me that the entire battle of Gen 3:15 is Satan’s ploy against Christ and his seed – the battle of truth over lies.
  I believe the WT is Satan’s last ditch effort to insure his power over the earth. Under righteous and faithful conditions, the priestly arrangement in the past has always served their Lord and the people. God’s Temple is under “restoration” now, as each wake up to the fallacies within the organization, those anointed to the awareness that Christ is their Master and not the GB, as well as all peoples realizing the same. Rev 22:17
  Pearldoxsey has an article on this trampling of God's Temple
  love,
  peely

Comment by Anonymous on 2016-12-25 06:15:41

Did the JWs just make up their own version of "feasts to Jehovah " ?
Seems that way.... There's already an existing feast schedule that our Lord Jesus adhered to.