[this article was contributed by Alex Rover]
“Behold, I tell you a great mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment. In a twinkling of an eye. At the last trumpet.”
These are the opening words of Handel’s Messiah: ‘45 Behold, I tell you a mystery’ & ‘46: The trumpet shall sound’. I highly encourage you to listen to this song before reading this article. If you would envision me writing at my computer with headphones covering my ears, chances are that I will be listening to Handel’s Messiah. Along with my “Word of Promise” dramatic reading of the NKJV, this is my favorite playlist for many years already.
The words, of course, are based on 1 Corinthians 15. I can unequivocally say that this chapter has had a profound impact on me in the past decade, functioning as a ‘skeleton key’ of sorts, steadily opening up more doors of understanding.
“The trumpet shall sound, and the dead be raised incorruptible”.
Imagine one day hearing this trumpet! As Christians, it signals the happiest day of our eternal lives, for it signals that we are about to be joined with our Lord!
Yom Teruah
It is an autumn day on the first day of the Tishrei moon, the seventh month. This day is called Yom Teruah, the first day of a new year. Teruah refers to the shouting of the Israelites which was followed by the fall of the walls of Jericho.
“Have seven priests carry seven rams’ horns [shophar] in front of the ark. On the seventh day march around the city seven times, while the priests blow the horns [shophar]. When you hear the signal from the ram’s horn [shophar], have the whole army give a loud battle cry. Then the city wall will collapse and the warriors should charge straight ahead.” – Joshua 6:4-5
This day has come to be known as the Feast of Trumpets. The Torah commands Jews to observe this holy day (Lev 23:23-25; Num 29:1-6). It is a seventh day, a day upon which all work is forbidden. Yet unlike the other Torah festivals, there was no clear purpose given for this festival. [1]
“Tell the Israelites, ‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you must have a complete rest, a memorial announced by loud horn blasts, a holy assembly.” (Lev 23:24)
Even though the Torah does not explain the express nature of Yom Teruah, it reveals clues about its purpose, foreshadowing God’s great mystery. (Psalm 47:5; 81:2; 100:1)
“Shout [Teruah] out praise to God, all the earth! […] Come and witness God’s exploits! His acts on behalf of people are awesome! […] For you, O God, tested us; you purified us like refined silver. You allowed men to ride over our heads; we passed through fire and water, but you brought us out into a wide open place.” (Psalm 66:1;5;7;10-12)
Hence I have come to believe that Yom Teruah was a feast to foreshadow a future time of complete rest for God’s people, a gathering of a holy assembly, related to the “sacred secret” of God’s will, due to occur at the “fullness of the times”. (Eph 1:8-12; 1Cor 2:6-16)
Satan has been great at working to hide this mystery from the people of this world! Just like the Christian influence on American Jews has led to a closer alignment of Hanukah with Christmas, the Babylonian influence on exiled Jews has led to a transformation of the Yom Teruah celebration.
Under Babylonian influence the Day of Shouting has become a New Year’s celebration (Rosh Hashanah). The first stage was the adoption of Babylonian names for the month. [2] The second stage was that the Babylonian New Year called “Akitu” often fell on the same day as Yom Teruah. When the Jews started calling the 7th month by the Babylonian name “Tishrei”, the first day of “Tishrei” became “Rosh Hashanah” or New Years. Babylonians celebrated Akitu twice: once on the 1st of Nissan and once on the 1st of Tishrei.
The Blowing of the Shophar
On the first day of every new moon, the shophar would briefly sound to mark the start of the new month. But on Yom Teruah, the first day of the seventh month, prolonged blasts would sound.
Seven days the Israelites marched around the walls of Jericho. The horn blasts marked warnings upon Jericho. On the Seventh day, they blew their horns seven times. The walls came down with a great shout, and Jehovah’s day arrived, when the Jews entered the Promised Land.
In the revelation of Jesus Christ (Rev 1:1), traditionally dated around 96 A.D., it is prophesied that seven angels would blow seven trumpets after the opening of the seventh seal. (Rev 5:1; 11:15) In this article, it is the final of these trumpet sounds that we are particularly interested in.
The seventh trumpet is described as a day of shouting, namely a day of “loud voices” (NET), “great voices” (KJV), “voices and thunders” (Etheridge). What great shouting is heard?
“Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven saying: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever.’” (Rev 11:15)
Subsequently the twenty-four elders clarify:
“the time has come for the dead to be judged, and the time has come to give to your servants, the prophets, their reward, as well as to the saints and those who revere your name, both small and great, and the time has come to destroy those who destroy the earth.” (Rev 11:18)
This is the great event that Yom Teruah foreshadowed, it is the ultimate day of shouting. It is the day of God’s finished mystery!
“in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.” (Rev 10:7 NASB)
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.” (1Thess 4:16)
What Happens When the Seventh Trumpet Sounds?
Leviticus 23:24 describes two aspects of Yom Teruah: It is a day of complete rest, and of holy assembly. We will examine both aspects in relation to the seventh trumpet.
When Christians think of a day of rest, we may reflect on Hebrews chapter 4 which deals specifically with this topic. Here Paul establishes a direct link between “the promise of entering his [God’s] rest” (Hebrews 4:1) and the events surrounding Joshua and by extension, the fall of Jericho and the entry into the Promised Land.
“For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken afterward about another day” (Hebrews 4:8)
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown comments that those brought into Canaan by Joshua entered only a day of relative rest. That day, God’s people entered the Promised Land. Entering God’s rest is thus related to entering God’s promise. It was also a day of shouting, a day of victory over their enemies and a day of rejoicing. Yet Paul clearly states that this rest was not “it”. There would be “another day”.
The day of rest which we look forward to is the Millennial Reign of Christ found in Revelation 20:1-6. This starts with the sounding of the 7th trumpet. The first proof for this is that, in Revelation 11:15, the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of Christ upon the blowing of this trumpet. The second proof is in the timing of the first resurrection:
“Blessed and holy is the one who takes part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.” (Rev 20:6)
When does this resurrection occur? At the final trumpet! There is clear scriptural evidence that these events are linked:
“They will see the Son of Man arriving on clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Mat 24:29-31)
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1Thess 4:15-17)
“Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep [in death], but we shall all be changed – in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, at the last trumpet. […] Death has been swallowed up in victory. Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” (1Cor 15:51-55)
Thus God’s people will be entering God’s rest. But what of the holy assembly? Well, we just read the scriptures: the elect or holy ones of God will be assembled or gathered on that very day, along with those who are asleep in Christ and who will receive the first resurrection.
As with God’s victory over Jericho, it will be a day of judgment against this world. It will be a day of reckoning for the wicked, but a day of shouting and joy for God’s people. A day of promise and great wonder.
[1] To compare with other festivals which are given clear purpose: Feast of Unleavened bread commemorates the exodus from Egypt, the celebration of the beginning of the barley harvest. (Exod 23: 15; Lev 23:4-14) The feast of Weeks celebrates the wheat harvest. (Exod 34:22) Yom Kippur is a national Day of Atonement (Lev 16), and the Feast of Booths commemorates the wandering of the Israelites in the desert and the ingathering of the harvest. (Exod 23:16)
[2] Jerusalem Talmud, Rosh Hashanah 1:2 56d
Hi Alex. As I read the article, I got goosebumps. It seems you and I have been affected by the same experience. My understanding of the scriptures did a 180 after one of Christ’s brothers opened my mind to the timing of the first ressurrection, timed with the last trumpet (it was my “skeleton key” as well). As a result of accepting that out of love of Biblical truth and rejecting what the GB had taught, the spirit opened up my mind to understanding pretty well all of what you wrote in your article without help from any fellow human.… Read more »
[…] festivals is Yom Teruah, also known as the Feast of Trumpets. I wrote an entire article on the Seventh Trumpet and the meaning of this feast, as it foreshadows the return of Messiah and Gathering of the […]
Well said, Vox Ratio. Well said! When I grow up, I want to speak as clearly as you do while maintaining a spirit of love and humility.
Reblogged this on Old Wt and commented:
An excellent article by Alex Rover, with insightful comments by MM and others.
Hi MM, I admire your zeal and the conviction of your claims. Yet, since one can neither know your character, nor your presence here, it is only possible to examine your speech. This speech, however, seems to be similar in form to that of the early Judaizers. As you know, this type of speech led the first congregations into confusion, and it is this type of confusion that ensnared even such church luminaries as Peter and Barnabas (Gal.2:13). Moreover, it is also this type of confusion that is referred to by the Jerusalem council as “trouble with speeches”, resulting in… Read more »
Well said!
Meleti, my brother, The passive attitude that many pastors have adopted is the reason for much of the wickedness in the world. The line between good and bad is rapidly disappearing. Why? God clearly let us know in His Word how we should strive to live. Yet, we’re picking and choosing which ones we want to follow. Gay marriage is being accepted by many pastors and priests. Why? If you’re not following all of God’s Word, the error of lawlessness creeps in, and before long, you’re lost, following your own rulebook. When the King returns, whose laws do you think… Read more »
Kev and Vox Ratio, Acts 15 is a chapter used by many as proof that God’s Torah has ended. The debate is about whether the gentiles should be keeping the Law of Moses as a means of salvation, or be keeping the Law of Moses as a matter of obedience as a result of faith. (Acts 15:5) The debate is between one of these two choices. No one suggests anywhere in this debate that there is a 3rd option in which the law of Moses has been abolished in whole or in part. It’s simply not a part of the… Read more »
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MM, The account concerning the relationship between the gentile converts and the law is closed off with the admonition to retain only four necessary things (Ac. 15:20). Any further requirements that might have been charged against the gentiles at a future date are conspicuously absent from Luke’s narrative – especially given that he wrote up to the time of the first imprisonment of Paul (c. 61 CE). If the Spirit’s decision to enact no further Mosaic burden upon the gentiles stands firm with the Jerusalem council, then it should stand firm with us as well. We simply have not been… Read more »
Alex, Thank you for your warm and encouraging comment. It’s greatly appreciated.
Vox Ratio, We must remember that in the account in Acts 15 takes place at a time when the gentiles are coming out of a culture rooted deep in pagan traditions – it’s all they’ve ever known. Their multiple gods, idols, idol worship which included temple prostitution and drinking blood all are historically known practices that would need to be addressed as brand new believers in the faith (Acts 15:20). This directive is straight out of the Law of Moses (Lev. 17:12-16; Duet. 32:17). Rather than suddenly overwhelm the new believers with all of the Law, it was the council’s… Read more »
1 john 5 v 3 for this is what the love of god means that we observe his commandments yet they are not burdensome . what commandments are we speaking of here . Notice chapter 3 v22 and 23 whatever we ask we recieve from him because we are observing his commandments ans are doing the things pleasing in his eyes indeed this is the commandment that we have faith in the name of his son jesus christ and be loving one another . . It was not burdensome because it should not be difficult to love our bothers and… Read more »
According to Leviticus 19:18 it wasn’t a “new” commandment. Jesus didn’t teach anything contrary to the Law or the Prophets. According to God’s Word, God never does anything without revealing it to His prophets beforehand For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7) The prophets spoke about a coming Messiah. The prophets spoke about a new heaven and earth. The prophets spoke about a scattering and regathering of the house of Judah and the house of Israel. But NOWHERE will we ever find the… Read more »
The idea of a Messianic figure whose authoritative word exceeds that of Moses is found in the Law itself. Moses warned Israel, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.” Deut 18:15 “I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.” Deut 18:19 Acts 3:22-23 “For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything… Read more »
According to Deuteronomy 13 the ppl of Israel were given the blueprint of who they should follow. Here we are believing that Jesus came and ended the Torah of God. And we’re teaching it to others! No wonder it’s so hard for Jewish ppl to believe in Jesus as Messiah. There’s a false report about Him that’s existed since the first century.
MM Said: If that is truly the case. Then what “commandments” are John talking about in 1 John 5:3? What about the commandment love you brother (John 13:35). What about the commandment to honor Jesus as yor would honor the Father? (John 5:23) all these commandments have to do with behavior, acts out of love, no longer because it is written. Yes, written on the heart, Therefore these commandment do not weigh us down, in contrast with the written law. It is the Law of Christ, based on love. I apologize but I get somehow very concerned when I read… Read more »
Many say that Christ was giving His disciples a new command instead of simply expounding on an existing command for the first time when He said, John 13:34-35 “A new command I give you. Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” “As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” This is where Christ expounds on His example of what He called the second greatest command.[See Matthew 22:37-39.] Leviticus 19:18 “Do not seek revenge or… Read more »
Jesus did and taught all His Father told Him to teach or do. On His baptism His Father said He is my Son, listen to Him. As such, if Jesus said He gives a new command, He did this with support of Hi. Father. Jesus was withiut sin. And yes if Jesus said it was new, it must have been new otherwisw Jesus would be a liar. And we all know He was without sins.
One of the curious things about the 7th trumpet (to me) in relation to what the WT Society teaches about is their timing: Rev 9:12 places the 6th and 7th trumpet (also called the 2nd and 3rd woe) after the 5th trumpet (also called the 1st woe). Then Rev 11:14 places the 7th trumpet (the 3rd woe) after the 6th trumpet (the 2nd woe). Yet, somehow, the WT places the 5th and 6th trumpets during the post-1914 last days, but the 7th trumpet occurs in Oct, 1914 at the end of their “7 times.” On a different note, the 7th… Read more »
@Kev, my internet name is wild olive,I chose it because it describes where I want to be( Rom11:17&18) and I can be anonymous.Ime still in the org but I no longer think of myself as a JW, that’s a name Jo Rutherford chose, not Jehovah.
I can’t see myself staying in,the bluff and baffle of the GB has reached an all time high with the recent request for more donations.I just can’t afford them anymore! Lol
Thanks for your reply wild olive . I hope you are doing fine . . If the trend continues acts 4 v 34 and 35 could be the next scriptural commandment . perhaps with a slight tweek the pink floyd song ( money ) could be made into a new kingdom melody . That the brothers could sing every week to remind them of thier pledges and obligations . Ha ha . thats sarcasm for you . seriously though its no fun is it . If we are going to give it should always be to those in need .… Read more »
Hi MM, Isn’t it great in the spirit of the Beroeans that we have a forum to discuss spiritual matters freely? Expressing Christian convictions is spiritually very therapeutic. You say: “The feasts of the Lord are prophetic rehearsals of the first and second coming of Christ….It’s very important to understand the front of the book.” Yes, I agree. I have come to appreciate that the entire OT with its feast rituals, traditions and ordinances are symbols reminding us of something far greater. They symbolize the various heavenly or spiritual concepts and values written embedded in the hearts of the New… Read more »
QC, Thanks for that. I once had the same understanding brother. I was raised believing the law ended just as I was raised believing Jesus’ second coming already happened in 1914. I urge you to test this teaching. When it comes to Galatians, many refer to the “tutor” found in chapter 3. We must remember that the context of Galatians is that they were trying to be saved BY the law. Galatians 5:4 “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” The law was never designed to save… Read more »
Sorry for the extremely long comment lol. But please read.
It is not difficult to study the Bible. Biblical statements must be treated as language designed to be understood. Paul meant what he actually said: Don’t go back under the Law. If you do you will be cut off from Christ, “severed from Christ” (Gal 5:4).
It is up to each one of us to listen intelligently and carefully to God’s Word and find rest in easy truths.
Skye, I agree we are not under law. We are under grace. Law cannot save us, only God’s mercy can. This is the point of many of Paul’s writings. But just because we have grace, do we sin (break God’s laws)? Every kingdom or government has laws. God’s Kingdom has laws. If we love God we do our best to follow them. But when we do sin, we have the grace of God to cover our transgressions. Murder, theft, and fornication are still sins just as coveting, eating unclean animals, and the desecration God’s sabbath are still sins. His law… Read more »
We haven’t abandoned the law, but we have abandoned the law code. We are putting our new wine in new wineskins. (Mt 9:17)
Our law is the law of love. We don’t need a specific law prohibiting fornication, murder, lying, slander, drunkenness, or any of the other works of the flesh. If we go with a law code, we open ourselves up to loopholes. However, in love’s perfect law, there can be no loopholes for evildoers to shoot through.
Jesus fulfilled the law code and in so doing replaced it with something better.
Meleti, If that is truly the case. Then what “commandments” are John talking about in 1 John 5:3? And really love is what the law was always about. Love for neighbor and love for God is the basis for every single Law. Matthew 22:36-40: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two… Read more »
Awesome Discussion!
This is very Important for me to know….
Will the Jews accuse the Jesus’ disciples of breaking the Torah to bury him on the Sabbath? Or will they discredit John as a phony saying that this couldn’t possibly happen on the Sabbath?
There were Pharisees that put Faith in Jesus and obviously helped Jesus’ family undercover. After Jesus was raised What happened to them after the warrant was sent out for the arrest of the disciples?
What is the Jews’ side of the story about Jesus’ resurrection?
Actually, they killed the two evildoers and made sure Jesus was already dead before the beginning of the Sabbath so that they could bury them prior to the start of it.
Thanks for the clarification Meleti 🙂
I forgot to put in that there is one thing we can’ t be part of, and that’s idolatry! So for me it’s like everything is turned upside down. I thought as a witness I had ‘peace and security’ like I was told, but as christians we must open our eyes and take a good look inside our hearts and see who we really worship … WHO DO WE TRUST AND PUT OUR FAITH IN? ..
It’s a blessing to see God opening the eyes of so many believers. Man confuses us with their doctrine, traditions and pride. So many are coming out of the darkness and growing in spirit, truth and light!
Yes, love is important, because without love truth is nothing, but then without truth (love of truth) there is no salvation. 2 Thess 2:10 “and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” We are required to have a passion for the truth – our salvation depends upon it.
Therefore truth and love are inseparable.
2 Thess 2:12 “and so all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” Not to love that truth is the equivalent of wickedness.
But we do not need to understand every bit of it, because when the mystery of God is fulfilled THEN everything will be understandable through the Anointed One and His bride. What we NEED TO is LOVE God and our neighbor! Everybody will not be able to understand, because we have to be granted understanding. The Bible is written the way it is written because God and the Son wanted to see who would really dig for the truths, specially those in covenants.(Isn’t the Scriptures realy for those nations?) When it was the physical nation of Israel, what about rest… Read more »
I couldn’t agree more
The Bible was written for ordinary folk to understand. If we think that the words do not mean what they say, then anyone can make them mean whatever “they” want them to say.
Exactly. The bible was written by Hebrew men who knew and understood Hebrew culture. The bible is written for all men but in order to grasp its full meaning and the message God is trying to relay to us, we must read it in the Hebrew context in which it was written. I’m from the south and if I used southern terms that I’m accustomed to, there’s a chance that you may misunderstand me. But if you put my words in their context, it’ll be easier to grasp what I’m saying. If everyone read the bible for what it says… Read more »
Hi MM, I agree with you that understanding Hebrew culture will help us to better understand the Bible, particularly those parts that predate Christianity. However, I think that to suggest that the reason we have so many different versions of Christianity is due to misunderstanding the text overlooks the fact that our sinful state with all its vices, pride, avarice, etc. is what is really behind the confusion. Jehovah inspired the Bible to be easy to misinterpret. Jesus spoke in illustrations so as to hide the truth from unworthy ones. The problem with imperfect human nature is that for the… Read more »
Very true.
And the most important “ingredient” we can have when reading the scriptures is Holy Spirit. God’s Spirit is the guide that we must follow, without it we will never grasp the true essence of His Word
But it’s very important to understand the front of the book. If we don’t understand the Hebrew scriptures, there’s a great chance we will misunderstand the “new” testament writings. After all, 50% of the “new” testament writings are quotes from the “old” testament.
MM, I agree that it is necessary to understand Biblical culture in order grasp the meaning of difficult scriptures. However, please be clear, that the comment I made earlier, “the Bible was written for ordinary folk …….” was absolutely in no way intended to mean that I agree with your understanding of the Law today, because I do not. I must say though, that I did enjoy your comments of God’s prophetic calendar, “the feasts of the Lord” to be very interesting. It is a subject that I have been meaning to research for a while, and so your comments… Read more »
I understand. As I stated before even if you don’t agree with me, it’s definitely something to look into. Remember to always test everything with scripture before accepting it as truth or writing it off as false. The problem is all christian denominations sprout from the Catholic Church. In some way or form, every christian denomination shares a teaching that the Catholic Church founded as truth years ago. A couple of these teachings are: God rejected Israel, and God ended the Law. It would do much good to at least scrutinize these teachings with scripture and see what’s the basis… Read more »
Again MM, I absolutely disagree. None of the people tat Jesus cured or even promised the future paradise to were complete aware of Jesus message. The one thing that realy was valid was their faith in HIm. Not their knowledge or the lack of it.
Salvation comes first, then obedience. Just like the Exodus from Egypt. Obeying the Law is the fruit of our salvation, not the root of our salvation. Any gentile coming into the faith was always intended to adopt the same Law as the natural born Israelite. There is no difference between an Israelite and a gentile in the faith. (Col. 3:11) It’s all about coming to the Messiah, our need for a Savior, and growing from there. We are all at different levels in our walk. Yet, it’s our faith that is the level ground for all of us.
Throughly enjoyed this article thank you so much Alex for some truly new light.
Also enjoyed the comments on the law, has answered a lot of questions for me,although I could be in trouble according to MM as Ime about to start on this years salami makeing, we are going to make about 250 salamis around 270 kg of pork meat.If I end up in Gehenna I’ll know why.
You never know wild olive perhaps you could qoute mark 7 v 18 and 19 as you go in . …….. ps is that your real name . Kev .
Was “thus declaring all foods clean” something Jesus said? Were those words in the original manuscripts? Were those words written by Mark or us it a redaction added by later translators? The truth is Jesus never ate unclean animals and he wouldn’t advise others to do so. For going against the law would be sin and we know Jesus had no sin in Him. He had to be a perfect sacrifice for us all. If Jesus was not perfect, then we all are lost. Read the whole chapter of Mark 7. It clearly has nothing to do with eating unclean… Read more »
Sorry but i never said jesus did eat pork .i dont believe he did actually . My comment was more along the lines of a tongue in cheek answer in fact . To wild olive an excuse you may say . Because when we read statements like there is nothing that enters into a man that can defile him and thus he declared all foods to be clean . In our bibles then im sure we can be excused for making 250 salamis from 275 kg of pork meat . Thanks kev ps i try to lighten up sometimes .
Thank Kev,
We can all do with a spot of humor from time to time.
Sorry, the comment that Jesus did not eat anything which was considered ritually unclean is completely irrelevant. Jesus came to fulfil the law and as such he obeyed it. But when fulfilled, no longer was it a master over the believers. Peter was made aware of this change.
Menrov, Are we to believe that our Father punished Israel for not wanting to love the Father by obeying the law of God, that He sent His Son to die for Israel so that they did not have to do the law of God? That would be rather awkward. You said: “Jesus came to fulfil the law and as such he obeyed it. But when fulfilled, no longer was it a master over the believers.” This statement clearly makes the mistake of not realizing that it is a blessing to keep a law of God. There are many places we… Read more »
I respect you have a different view. i stick to my original arguments though.
I respect your views to my brother. But we should always test our beliefs with the WHOLE Word, and adapt accordingly. Shalom
Yea lol. I’m sorry that one went over my head. Maybe I need to loosen up a bit. The pressure I’m getting from my wife and the elders got me a lil uptight.
MM, Admittedly the change from the Old Covenant Torah in the letter to the spiritual New Covenant in the Messiah was such a huge thing, that it was necessary for whole books largely dealing with this subject to be written – Romans, Galatians, Hebrews.
We have to remember that there is the firstborn and their covenant and the rest of us and the promise of the kingdom. Who God chose to invite to the last one is not our business. He choose to have merchy with whom He choose!
Rev 10:7; 22:17
The promise of the Kingdom will come when the new covenant is fulfilled; has produced a seed, like the old one did. The ‘thousand years’ is for that fulfillment, so it started in the first century. So the rest, is actually the Kingdom!
It’s a rest for the new mankind!
should say heterosexuals addicted to sex and other things.
MM its the practising of sin that God condemns, how hard would it be for one that has homosexual tendencies not to be able to marry, but because they love God they fight this tendency, God sees what their background was their upbringing, their past mistakes that may have led to this, it would not be easy I have the utmost respect for anyone with these issues to not practise, the same with homosexuals with maybe addictions to sex and other things, we don’t know their heart but know if they are trying to do as God requires in their… Read more »
Katrina and Imgonaburn, Please don’t misunderstand what I’m saying here. No one should hate anyone for their sexual preferences. A man who fornicates with a woman is the same as a man who fornicates with a man – they are both sinning. I understand that a lot is involved when it comes to the shaping of a person and his/her preferences. We should not judge others nor look down on them nor shun them for their weaknesses or tendencies. However, God calls it a sin, then it is a sin. Once we come to an accurate knowledge, we realize that… Read more »
That’s the point I’m making really. I’m more invested in the well being of my son. James 4:17 tells me that it would be sinful of me not to support him because, to me, that is the right thing to do. If that makes me weak then so be it. I don’t believe that God will condemn me for it because God is Love. Jesus said the law is fulfilled in Him. He instructed us to have love for one another. I don’t accept that it’s all as simple as ‘do as the Bible says or die’ I believe that… Read more »
Imgonna burn as you know im with you on this one . Its all too easy isnt it to start condemning homosexuals . Which seems to me to be regular pattern among many who claim to be religious they very often qoute romans 1 but what they dont qoute is the context at romans 2 and 3 . The point being if we judge others for breaking the law we have also condemned ourself because we have all at some point broke the law .Verses 28 to 32 of romans 1 mentions a whole host of other things as well… Read more »
The error of lawlessness leads to an unstable way of thinking. When we claim that God’s Laws were ended, we are left confused. Which ones do we follow? Which ones do we keep? God’s word clearly speaks against homosexuality. I’m not judging anyone. And by no means would I condemn anyone according to my own standards. But the word clearly says what kind of people will enter God’s Kingdom. We can be sure that Jehovah deals with each individual situation justly and His wisdom is beyond ours so it is not up to any man to say who is righteous… Read more »
Understanding that there are only two resurrections, one of righteous ones and one of unrighteous ones, leads us to a better, more understanding conclusion of the true extent of God’s love. (Acts 24:15) Inheriting the kingdom refers to attaining to the heavenly hope, the better resurrection. (Heb 11:35) If one practices the works of the flesh, then one cannot inherit the kingdom, meaning the heavenly hope, to rule with Christ. (Gal. 5:19-21) However, the rest still get an opportunity to return to God’s family as part of the resurrection of the unrighteous. They are the whole reason that Jesus has… Read more »
Hi Meleti!
I really appreciate all the articles to clarify this point. I have a question about the failed Milllions will never die Campaign. What was that about? Is that why they started to shut up the Kingdom Heavens -1930-ongoing?
Agape
Rutherford believed the end would come in 1925, so he believed that million then alive would never die because they would survive Armageddon.
Yes we know what gods word says about this And a whole host of other things as well . But my point is that we cannot judge the secret person of the heart . We just dont know why people do the things they do . We dont even know what they do . The fact is from what ive experienced many JWs say that they dont judge others but Why is it then that they cut people off even thier own children even those who have never even claimed to be a christian . 1 corinthians 5 v 9… Read more »
Thank you Kev, I was hoping you would understand where I’m coming from. It wouldn’t make a scrap of difference to me if I were to become a fervent bible reader. I would still love my son and accept who and what he is. I question everything now. I see corruption in everything now. That’s where I find myself after 30 years with the witnesses. It might sound like I’m bitter, but I’m not. I’m thankful for the protection belonging to that group of people afforded me. My life would undoubtedly have been a lot worse had I not made… Read more »
Imgonaburn
Please excuse and forgive me if I offended you in any way my sister. I know no I’m not in your shoes so I can’t fully relate to your situation. God forbid if I ever would judge anyone for their beliefs or way of life – for I myself am a sinner. I just have full confidence in the Word and was just sharing my views. I wish you well.
Hi all. As a { fervent bible reader } I personal do not agree with the following quotes: { God forbid if I ever would judge anyone for their beliefs or way of life} { I’m influenced by the force of nature known as ‘a mothers love’. It’s irrational I know- I just can’t help it!} { surely Gods holy spirit help these ones as much as any of us} { A man who fornicates with a woman is the same as a man who fornicates with a man} Is this hard to understand, am I twisting it? Paul said:… Read more »
thank you JJ
JJ, perhaps you are missing our sister’s point. It is possible to love our children, without loving the way they choose to live their lives. I agree with you that homosexuality is a sin, just as the Bible states. A mother’s heart loves her children unconditionally. Well, some do. I know full well how agonizing it is for a parent’s heart to be torn when their child does not embrace the life we wanted for them. We don’t throw our children away or write them out of our lives. We do the only thing we can do. We continue to… Read more »
The kingdom of heaven may not be for practicing homosexuals, but Jesus died for and truly loved all people.
Hi Imacountrygirl2 I haven’t got any homosexual children. If I did I might look at it from a human fathers love. But that will not change what the bibles says. I can think and believe what I like. But I don’t want Jesus saying to me “Why, then, do YOU call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?” Luke 6:46 You said: { It is possible to love our children, without loving the way they choose to live their lives.} Of course! But If your quoting Imgonaburn Who also said {nothing will separate me and my… Read more »
Perhaps this is a topic we can save for the forum should anyone feel its appropriate.
About a parents love, let’s not forget Hosea. Jehovah told him to marry a prostitute named Gomer so he could learn about Gods forgiveness.
We cannot comprehend Gods love. At the same time we should hate what is bad and call it for what it is. But love hopes all things. And we hope all the best for others.
I make clear I’m talking about PRACTISING homosexuals. Abstaining, practicing Christian homosexual may have a double portion of Jesus love if that is possible.
He too was flesh for a time.
Christian love. JJ
Yes for the forum
Christain Love.JJ
Paul explained righteousness cannot come through the Law. Yet he didn’t condemn those who kept both the Law and Christ, only those who insisted the Law was required in addition to Christ (concerning circumcision). I am brought into a new covenant by Holy Spirit, and I am to keep the commandments of my covenant. For example, why would I slaughter a Passover Lamb, when Christ came to fulfill that and become the Passover? Instead, I keep the memorial of his death as he commanded. The Law is eternal, but many aspects of it foreshadowed Christ, and in the New Testament… Read more »
Laying the foundation-That makes sense. Patience is the key lol. I’m sorry. I read your article (which is well written and makes good points) and I got excited because I’ve been researching this very subject recently.
However, because of the idea that the law is ended, it forces us to pick and choose which laws to follow. For example, we know we shouldn’t murder, or practice homosexuality. Yet we disregard other laws such as (Sabbath keeping, and the dietary laws). God called homosexuality an abomination (loathsome, detestable) Leviticus 18:22 He also calls the eating of animals he deemed unclean as an abomination (loathsome, detestable) Deut. 14:3 My question is why do we feel which of God’s Laws are no longer binding. If He called homosexuality an abomination it will always be an abomination to Him. Likewise,… Read more »
I’m not convinced that things once considered an abomination under mosaic law still apply. Jesus urged us to love one another and stressed that having love for our fellow man was a crucial part of our redemption. How can we be ‘saved’ if we consider homosexuality as an abomination. It’s not our place to condemn or judge others on what we consider to be ‘imperfection’. My son is homosexual and it is my belief that he was born that way. It made me question everything about the jw religion. Love is fundamental to Peace. If I have love for my… Read more »
MM, How would you have viewed circumcision back in the first century? Would you have said Gentiles required it?
This is a deep subject. Let me say this though, circumcision is NOT required for salvation. In fact, following the Law does not bring salvation.
As far as the circumcision issue goes, I would love to share something with you that is entirely too long to post in this comment thread. However, if you don’t mind, I can email it to you.
“But since there are laws that we currently cannot follow, does this mean God’s standards have changed?” God’s standards for Himself have never changed, but his requirements for US have changed. He had requirements for His nation of Israel, but because that nation rejected him, THEY broke the covenant, not God. But either way, the covenant was broken. You can’t enforce agreement when the agreement was cancelled. Consider James 2:10: “For whoever observes all the Law but makes a false step in one point, he has become an offender against them all. 11 For he who said: “You must not commit… Read more »
is actually a reference to something IN the Torah? Could this be one of those verses that many use to misrepresent Paul? All the while, he could actually be reinforcing his argument in favor of the law
Colossians 2:13-14 13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; These are some difficult verses for some explain. Many, however, use these two verses as “proof text” in saying that Jesus did away with the Law, but is this really possible? Is this really what Jesus nailed to the cross? Is this really what Paul… Read more »
Qspf, Thanks for your thoughts brother. You are correct. God’s standards for Himself have not changed. As God cannot change, His standards for Humans (and everything else for that matter) has not changed. Situations and circumstances change, but God’s ways do not. For example, Daniel is considered a faithful prophet of God. He no doubt observed the Torah to the best of his ability. Yet his circumstances didn’t allow him to follow every law. For one, he could not go to Jerusalem 3 times a year as commanded for every male of Israel for the feast days. Does this mean… Read more »
I am afraid I absolutely disagree. The Law and everything that was linked to it ended with the death of Jesus. It is ok if someone wants to continue to celebrate festivals, but it is not correct to allocate any meaning to it with regard to a Christian life (Col. 2:16). Rom 10:4 says it all: Christ is the end of the Law. See also Rom 8:2. Anyone who want to maintain the Law, puts himself under a master that has no purpose. Gal 2:16 yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but… Read more »
Hi MM.
This is a bit of subject but not entirely.
It is an important point and will help me understand were your coming from.
You said [These same men taught that God rejected Israel and they (the church) replaced them [a teaching known as ‘Replacement Theology’].
Is the nation of Israel in position today as a fulfillment of Gods promises to them of old? Is it from God or men?
JJ
Jesusjeffrey, Many denominations hold to the view that God has forsaken the nation of Israel forever. They feel that because Israel crucified their Messiah, Jesus Christ, that God has taken away the promises He made to Israel, and has applied those promises to the present day predominantly Gentile church. However, we must not put “what we feel” above what God’s Word actually says. In reality, God made an unconditional everlasting covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God promised to make a new covenant with Israel and Judah. According to Bible prophecy, Israel will be back in their own land and… Read more »
Thanks for your reply MM.
I will consider your point of view carefully. I do think I will have more questions for you as this understanding of Israel’s return has an enormous bearing on the implications of the rest of the discussion below.
Mm are you saying that we need to observe each and every aapect of the law in order to be saved . Kev
By no means. The Law cannot save anyone – it never did. Our imperfect nature prevents us from keeping the Law perfectly. This was the very reason Christ came, because we were condemned. Transgression of the Law=Sin(1 John 3:4) Sin=death. Whoever hates sin must uphold the law. Whoever fights the law is upholding sin whether he likes it or not. Grace is pardon for sin, which is breaking the law. The Savior died so that we can have grace. If we don’t need law, we don’t need forgiveness because without law sin doesn’t exist. (Romans 4:15; Romans 5:13) If we… Read more »
Thanks alex for a very interesting article . I never really connected the trumpet blasts of jerico with the trumpet blasts in revelation Before interesting stuff . Kev
MM, you said: “These instructions never ended. Jesus himself followed the Torah and also observed the feast days.” You also said: “According to Jesus’ words, the Torah is still alive and won’t be done away with until heaven and earth pass away.”
I have never heard it expressed this way before. How exactly does the Torah still being alive affect us as Christians today? How would one fulfill all of the biblical laws of Judaism?
The anti-Semetic culture of the early church fathers has played a major part in the false teaching that the Torah (Law) ended. Hebrew culture, context, and language has been removed from the bulk of scripture. This false doctrine is held by most christian denominations and is based mostly on the letters of Paul. Paul’ letters are very hard to understand. Peter confirms this at 2 Peter 3:15-17: “And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom that was given to him, as he does also in… Read more »
In order to understand the advents of our Savior, we MUST understand the feast days as given to us in the Torah. The feasts of the Lord are prophetic rehearsals of the first and second coming of Christ. There are a total of seven feasts ordained by the Lord. The Spring feasts are: Passover (Pesach), Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost (Shavu’ot). The Fall feasts are: Trumpets (Yom Teruah), Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and Tabernacles (Sukkot). Though these are all referred to, in a broad sense only three are truly feast days where we are instructed to actually celebrate… Read more »
MM, You say, “These were given to all twelve tribes of Israel ….. The scriptures tell us that they are always to be observed. Always.” I’m sorry if I’ve misunderstood you, but could you explain what you mean by, “Always”?
And what are your thoughts on Zech 14:16 with regard to the celebrating of the Festival of Tabernacles in the Millennium? Thanks.
At Leviticus 23:14,21,31,41 the statement “it shall be a lasting statute in all your dwellings throughout your generations.” God’s appointed Holy days were included in the Torah for instructions for Israel and any believer who tied himself to God’s people. These instructions never ended. Jesus himself followed the Torah and also observed the feast days. Jesus says at Matt. 5:17-19: “Do not think that I have come to destroy the law(Torah) or the prophets. I have not come to destroy them but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one tiny… Read more »
MM, God’s prophetic calendar “the feasts of the Lord” is a very interesting subject and thanks for explaining it. However, with regard to Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.” The fulfilment meant Jesus was teaching the spiritual intention of the law and not the letter of the law.
Skye , The word “fulfill” in that verse is translated from the Greek word “pleroo” (from plērēs, “be full,”). It means “to properly, fill to individual capacity, i.e. to the extent it is “meet” When I fill my tank with gas, I don’t rip the tank from off my vehicle. I fill it up to the top. That’s what Christ did. He didn’t destroy the Law or the Prophets. Instead he fulfilled it by living it, enhancing it’s meaning to honest hearted ones, explaining it and carrying it out. Perfect as he was, he was the only one that could… Read more »