“We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.” – Zechariah 8:23
[From ws 1/20 p.26 Study Article 5: March 30 – April 5, 2020]
This is the second study article for preparing the brothers and sisters mentally for the upcoming annual memorial celebration. It appears to be aimed at putting many on the spot and coercing the attendees into not partaking at the memorial. In recent years, an article of this sort has been published every year just prior to the memorial, seemingly in an attempt to reinforce the two-class doctrine of 144,000 adopted Sons with a heavenly hope and a great crowd of other sheep on earth as Friends of God.
Indeed, if you do a comparison you will notice that this study article is almost completely word for word just a reprint of the January 2016, Study Watchtower article “We want To Go With You” (p.22). Rather than attempt to refute the same unscriptural points that have already been established by the previous review, it would be good to get a good background before continuing. Please see the review here 20 March 2016, Watchtower Study Articles Review.
This study article and the previous study article (along with the memorial talk) appear designed to guilt many PIMO[i] witnesses into NOT partaking of the emblems. Yet, many PIMO’s have come to realise the fact that, just as in ancient times all Israelites had to partake in the Passover meal to survive, likewise today, just as Christ instructed, all have to partake when observing the memorial of Christ’s death (Luke 22:19).
That many are realising this fact is probably evidenced by the annual report of 2019 where we see the number of partakers is still growing and now over 20,000 with approximately a 1,000 partaker increase over the previous year. Could we not assume this increase includes many of the ever-growing PIMO group within the Organization, especially when considering the annual worldwide growth rate from the preaching work is negligible?
Although in this Watchtower article the Governing Body dismisses this increase as of little concern, this growing trend must be threatening to the long-standing doctrines of just a limited number of 144,000 anointed brothers of Christ, who, according to their doctrine, are the only ones who should be partaking at the memorial. From the 1930’s until late in the 20th century, the teaching was that the total number of anointed had been sealed and the number of partakers steadily decreasing in number every year was part of their proof and the nearness of the end of the system of things.
A Paradox is a statement or proposition that, despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable, or self-contradictory.
Throughout the Watchtower Study article, we can find many paradoxical statements. We will highlight them as follows:
… leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable,
Par. 1 The “Jew” here represents those whom God has anointed by Holy Spirit. They are also called “the Israel of God.” (Gal. 6:16) The “ten men” Represent those who have the hope of living forever on earth. They know that Jehovah has blessed this group of anointed ones and feel that it is an honor to worship him.”
Notice that from the very first paragraph, the “new light adjustment” on discontinuing the teachings of types and anti-types as per David Splane’s JW Broadcast announcement and March 15, 2015 Watchtower, “Questions from Readers” on page 17[ii], continues to be totally ignored by the writers of this and other Watchtower articles!
… self-contradictory
As you may have noticed the teaching department has complied with the Governing Body’s new policy at least in part, in the latest book release on Ezekiel, “Pure Worship of Jehovah Restored at Last!”, with the major adjustment being that Jerusalem no longer typifies Christendom (Chapter 16). There is also the recent adjustment that the Locust swarm in Joel no longer typifies Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide preaching work. (See also forthcoming Watchtower Study article entitled “An attack coming from the North” in the April 2020 Study Watchtower).
Therefore, the question we might ask is, why have they not upheld the “no types /antitypes” mandate from 2015 in this Watchtower study of Zechariah 2:8? Could it be because it conveniently fits their overall agenda of maintaining the Governing Body/FADS[iii] elite status that has increased over the decades?
Was this just an oversight by the writers? Or did they find that this type/antitype application of Zechariah qualified under the exception “unless they are explicitly declared in the Bible?”
Simply put, there is no Bible based evidence that proves the “Jew” in Zechariah typifies the modern-day anointed ones. In fact, it is far more likely the fulfilment was in the 1st Century and was referring to the Gentiles joining the Jewish Christians in the early Christian congregation.
It would be hard to believe that keeping this type/antitype was a mistake, because although a member of the Governing Body may not have penned this article, they have absolute final approval on everything that is produced in the teaching department. In fact, there are a number of members of the Governing Body on the teaching committee, so it is not likely they missed this contradiction of scriptural application protocols broadcast by one of their own Governing Body members and put in print in the Watchtower.
Could we therefore reasonably conclude that on this occasion they discarded their own scripture interpretation policy when it comes to anti-types on this subject? Why? Could it be because it fits their narrative when it comes to promoting the two-class doctrine and the superior status it affords them?
Let us continue on to see what other points of paradox have been produced in this study article.
HOW SHOULD ANOINTED ONES VIEW THEMSELVES?
….. despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless,
Par.4 “Anointed ones should think seriously about the warning found at 1 Corinthians 11:27-29. (Read) … might an anointed one partake “unworthily” at the Memorial? He would do so if he ate and drank the emblems but was not living up to Jehovah’s righteous standards”.
Could we inquire if the Governing Body have applied this paragraph based on 1 Corinthians 11:27-29 to themselves? Are they living up to Jehovah’s Standards?
For the benefit of first-time readers, just briefly examine two major examples that, by their own statements above, would disqualify them from partaking!
- The 10-year apostate affiliation with the United Nations as an NGO. (here)
- The shameful mishandling of child abuse cases within the Organization worldwide. (here)
…. self-contradictory
Par. 5 “Jehovah’s holy spirit helps his servants to be humble, not proud”.
Has the Governing Body ever displayed humility, a repentant attitude, or even given an apology for any of the serious mistakes that have affected the lives of thousands of Witnesses over the decades? You would have to admit to the mistakes, before you could apologize. When has that ever happened in Watchtower history?
One well-known example is with the “Stay Alive Till 75” debacle in which they blamed the rank and file members for “running ahead” of the Organization, even in the face of their own published literature that proves they were the undeniable source of false expectations.
Would not this be a sign of a lack of Holy Spirit or the Spirit direction they claim to have?
In truth the facts from their own publications and actions plainly show they have placed themselves into a unique elevated class over everyone. They even have inserted themselves between humans and Jesus and the rest of the “anointed class”.
DO WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE NUMBER OF THOSE PARTAKING?
…. leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable
Par.12 “Brothers who count the number of those partaking at the Memorial do not know who truly is anointed. So, the number includes those who think that they are anointed but are not. For example, some who used to partake later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems that make them believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Clearly, we do not know exactly how many anointed ones are left on earth”.
Par.12 “Brothers who count the number of those partaking at the Memorial do not know who truly is anointed ……” (but we are watching you! See the picture on pg.30). Surely even to attempt to count those claiming to be “anointed” in this manner, without knowing if they really are “anointed”, is an exercise in futility is it not?
The paragraph continues to try to sow doubt in the minds of the brothers and sisters claiming, “the number includes those who think that they are anointed but are not”. [Bold ours] On what basis can they make this claim? This may or may not be true. It is also equally possible that there might be some Witnesses who think they are but are intimidated from partaking. Is the Organization able to read the minds of those who partake?
“some who used to partake later stopped” Did they come to believe they were mistaken, or were they intimidated by the Organization or by the reaction of the local congregation, or did they decide to partake privately or did they come around to the view that to partake openly in the Kingdom Hall is giving support to the incorrect teaching of two classes of the anointed and the great crowd? Maybe because of all the pressure on preaching by the Organization they no longer feel worthy? Again, this casting doubt on the genuineness on the part of some partakers is very poor as what they draw attention too could have any number of reasons, most of which do not disqualify them from partaking.
And the most powerful statement of all,
“Others may have mental or emotional problems that make them believe that they will rule with Christ”. [Bold ours] Perhaps this is the Organization’s shorthand for those they view as “mentally diseased”, because they would never want to admit openly that those they view as apostate are in their very midst.
…. Sound reasoning from acceptable premises?
Par-14 “Jehovah decides when he will choose anointed ones. (Rom. 8:28-30) Jehovah began choosing anointed ones after Jesus was resurrected. It seems that in the first century, all true Christians were anointed ………. In the centuries that followed, most of those who claimed that they were Christians did not really follow Christ. Even so, during those years, Jehovah anointed the few who were true Christians. They were like the wheat that Jesus said would grow among the weeds. (Matt. 13:24-30)
So, if God decides to choose some of these just before the end, surely we should not question his wisdom. (Read Romans 9:11, 16.) We must be careful not to react like the workers whom Jesus described in one of his illustrations. They complained about the way their master treated those who started working in the last hour. Matthew 20:8-15”. [bold ours]
However, even this reasoning is flawed, because it uses assumptions, such as “It seems that in the 1st century”. Also, “most who claimed they were Christians did not really follow Christ”. How do they know? On what evidence do they base this claim? It has to all be conjecture and speculation, otherwise they would support their argument with verifiable facts either in the paragraph or as a footnote.
Furthermore, after trying to insinuate that many should not be partaking for a variety of reasons they then have the gall to say, “if God decides to choose some of these just before the end, surely we should not question his wisdom”. Is this not of the greatest hypocrisy? What are they doing if they are not questioning whether God has chosen these ones?
… is a statement or proposition that, despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable, or self-contradictory.
Para-15 “Matthew 20:8-15. Not all who have the hope of living in heaven are part of “the faithful and discreet slave” (Read Matthew 24:45-47).”
Really, this part is just a paragraph of unfounded assumptions requiring the reader to accept their eisegesis interpretation of the parable Jesus gave in Matt. 24 which really encompasses the entire definition of a paradox! How do either of these scriptures prove either a hope of living in heaven or that either the faithful and discreet slave alone or others have been given that hope by Jesus?
HOW SHOULD THE ANOINTED BE TREATED? (Note: this subheading is out of order, but it fits better here!)
…a statement or proposition that, despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable, or self-contradictory.)
In Par. 8-10 let us look at some of the glaring “self-contradictory” points.
In addition to study articles like this that promote class distinctions, it should not be surprising to any reasonable person, that the Governing Body are treated as “special.” We can only conclude despite what they are saying in these statements below, is that this is entirely by design, with the apparent aim of having a measure of passive control by creating in people a passive dependent personality.[iv]
- “The other sheep should never forget that their salvation depends on their active support of Christ’s anointed “brothers” still on earth.” (WT Dec. 3/13 p. 20)
- “At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s Organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” (w13 11/15 p. 20)
- Governing Body member Gerrit Losch on a recent JW Broadcast made the request “Do you trust Jehovah and Jesus? Then trust the Governing Body like they do.”
In this well-known picture from the WT 4/15 2015 note where the Governing Body are. Immediately under Jehovah, but can you find Jesus the head of the Christian congregation in this picture? (Colossians 1:18).
When viewing this picture, it is good to be reminded that in John 14:6 Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” [Bold ours]
When pointing this picture out to a spiritually awake anointed brother of many years, he was so shocked he called Bethel. He was basically told “it was no mistake” and gave him in essence the standard line “Do you think you know more than the Governing Body?” (It is not surprising that he is now a fellow PIMO).
Why is the Governing Body so surprised when the brothers and sisters treat them as spiritual celebrities? Does not releasing Kingdom songs that glorify themselves reinforce their self-appointed position of authority?[v] What Jehovah and Jesus think of this we can only speculate, but we can be confident that this attitude of self-glorification will not go unnoticed.
Finally, the most egregious part of their agenda has been to deny millions from partaking of the emblems of Christ sacrifice! In doing so they have effectively created a celebrity status for themselves. Having created the problem in the first place, they then turn around and in this article blame the other sheep even for treating them as such!
In Summary
Whether you personally decide to partake or not of the emblems is something between you, Jehovah, and his Son Jesus. It is a personal decision, best made after much prayer and research of the scriptures. There is also no scriptural mandate for other humans to monitor or count or question this personal decision.
In preventing millions from obeying the Christ who said, “keep doing this in remembrance of me” we are reminded of Matthew 23:13 “you shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in”.
Conclusion
What have these actions by the Governing Body resulted in? (Matthew 7:16 “By their fruits you will recognize them”)
- The increasing exodus of many, long serving, faithful Witnesses.
- The dismal annual growth rate after billions of hours of worldwide preaching.
- The establishment of an awakened group inside the congregation.
However, we should not expect these results to bring on repentance and make them alter their course.
Aptly applicable in principle for our day, Jeremiah said, “Even the stork in the sky knows its seasons; the turtledove and the swift and the thrush keep to the time of their return. But my own people do not understand the judgment of Jehovah. How can you say: ‘We are wise, and we have the law of Jehovah’? For in fact, the lying stylus of the scribes has been used only for falsehood.” (Jeremiah 8:7-8)
[i] PIMO = Physically In Mentally Out
[ii] That reference (and David Splane) stated: “In recent times, the trend in our publications has been to look for the practical application of events and not for types where the Scriptures themselves do not clearly identify them as such. We simply cannot go beyond what is written.” and “So, we are no longer going to teach antitypes unless they are explicitly declared in the Bible.”
[iii] FADS = Faithful and Discreet Slave
[iv] Passive Dependent Personality: Definition – People with DPD tend to display needy, passive, and clinging behavior, and have a fear of separation. Other common characteristics of this personality disorder include: Inability to make decisions, even everyday decisions like what to wear, without the advice and reassurance of others. WebMD
[v] #27 “The Revealing of The Sons of God”, #26 “You Did It for Me”, #25 “A Special Possession”
I have a question based on a discussion I had with someone on RESURRECTION from that discussion this were the outcome: 1. First RESURRECTION……….. Revelation 20:6 and 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17. With 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 serving as an explanation of Revelation 20:6 to how FIRST RESURRECTION will occur. 2. Second RESURRECTION………………. John 5: 28,29 From what I can obtain from this individual, Jesus was referring to the SECOND RESURRECTION ONLY in that account of John 5:28,29. Any view point pertaining to this welcomed. Sorry for placing this here. Don’t know if it will be seen on the FOUR PART RESURRECTION… Read more »
My understanding of this is that the First Resurrection are the dead in Christ, whom will rise first. This would be at the beginning of the Thousand Years and would allow these faithful one to participate in the millennial reign of Christ. The Second Resurrection is at the end of the Thousand Years and would allow persons whom had been judged worthy to live in a creation restored to its initial state. Apparently, from the verses in John, these would be judged based upon their past deeds. There are untold numbers of people that never heard of Christianity, but may… Read more »
With the memorial done in homes this year, how are the brothers going to keep a count. This will be the first year one can partake with out scrutiny.
That’s come to my mind, too. Hopefully a lot of people will follow their conscience, instead of following men. I’ve never partaken at a KH and have no intention of ever walking into one again. In any event, no one will ever be welcome to challenge my participation in communion with Christ.
Good point JA, but they will find some way to have it reported as the Org. Is obsessed with numbers. Just look at the new FS arrangement,
Zoom meeting for service and then everyone counts time writing letters just to keep the publishers in routine and reporting their “time”
If they don’t have a method of counting partakers it shouldn’t be any great surprise, as remember the only number currently that matters is 8 when it comes to the partakers!
Letter writing has always struck me as a waste of time. It makes even less sense, in these days, when one can compose a letter and print as many copies as they want with the click of a mouse.
Field service has become busy work. Years ago, I married a young woman who was a regular pioneer. I went out in service with her and the other young pioneers in the congregation (10-15 years younger than I) and soon realized that all they were doing was wasting time and cruising around. They were having a great time, socially, but accomplishing very little; all with the applause of the adults in the congregation. These young pioneers are all in their 50s, by now, and I would love to know what has become of them. I am divorced from that person… Read more »
I recall that once they said that perhaps some yet undiscovered archaeological evidence will be unearthed to place the date at 607. What hogwash! Perhaps there is yet undiscovered evidence that I descend from royalty, but I’m not holding my breath. What would happen if you wrote a large check based upon yet undiscovered money that you think should be in your checking account? Now, apply that same logic to a teaching which affects the life of literally millions of people. People have avoided starting families, walked away from educational opportunities and changed the plan of their entire life because… Read more »
Matthew 12:50……….. For whoever does the WILL of MY FATHER in HEAVEN is my brother and sister and MOTHER.” is very fine verse I have used to simplify the task set before me and I always love to link it with John 6:40 ……..For this is the WILL of my FATHER, that everyone who LOOKS on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” Another point here Concerning the word MOTHER as used by Jesus Christ, the JW ORG pride itself as OUR MOTHER but in Matthew 12:50… Read more »
Thanks Safeguard, for that crystal clear reminder re “the will of the Father”!! Yes, John 6:40 I still feel the indoctrination of believing that “the will of the Father” was counting time the watchtower way. Now, after resigning 4 years ago you have given me a scriptural way to ease my mind. All are Gods sons and daughters … Thus Christ’s brothers and sisters.
Thank you for this article. Really refreshing and based on sound logic. I must say I was surprised to find out that in the new book they have released (Eze, which I haven’t read) that they have abandoned the teaching linking Jerusalem with Christendom! That was hounded into me for 30 years and abandoned in a single swoop. I wonder how they will apply the “disgusting thing standing in Christendom’s holy place” as that is what they say happened in the first century and will happen at the outbreak of the great Tribulation, which surely depends on Jerusalem representing Christendom?… Read more »
That is actually a very major development. I no longer believe that the Gog of Magog attack is symbolic of an attack directed towards Christians, but is in fact an attack which takes place in the literal land of Israel. The dominoes appear to be being stacked accordingly as we speak. Keep in mind, this is not about some blessing for the sake of Israel, but for the sake of God’s name and the promise to Abraham. Since adopting a literal read of the related prophecies, Ezekiel 36 – 38, Zechariah 12 – 14 for example, things make a lot… Read more »
For me, what made Zech 8:23 really fascinating was when I found that Paul referenced it at 1Co 14:25. If Zech 8:23 is describing so-called “non-anointed Christians,” then, based on the WT’s explanation of it, Paul’s reference to it should be impossible.
I have several threads on the DTT site that explain my research into its use at 1Co 14:25:
Zechariah 8:23 and Isaiah 45:14
10 Gentiles Taking Hold of a Jew (Zech 8:23)
The Great Crowd, Abrahamic Covenant, and New Covenant
[…] I did have in mind responding to the follow up Watchtower article to this one entitled: “We Will Go With You” but I don’t think I could do a better job than Beroeans Creed. […]
Dear brother JA, You have very well pointed out the problem of the terms “heavenly hope”, “144 000” and “anointed”. But I’d like to mention two paragraphs of your comment. Paragraph 2 is questionable, I think the Bible does not imply that “he will return to heaven and not come back again”. It would require contextual proof. But I don’t want to do that. I am concerned about point 3 – the interpretation of Jesus’ parable of the king’s wedding – Matt 22:1-14. It is about the called and the chosen. This parable (IMO) does not speak about distinguishing of… Read more »
Hi JA. Thank you for your thoughts and for your information background. I didn’t mean my comment as a critic or arguing, but as another interpretation. Your comments here are often interesting for me, as well as this one. I am glad you are here. And as to destination – no matter where and no matter how, I will be glad to serve my Master, my King and my brother, Jesus Christ.
Take care and be safe in this dangerous time. Frankie.
At first glance when we all began our journeys as Jehovah’s Witnesses the teaching of a small number taken from humans on earth made sense using the analogy of a man-made democratic republic government. (USA) Representatives from among the people chosen by their experience to serve in the government. So, it is easy to understand how Jehovah could choose some from imperfect humans to serve with Jesus in the Kingdom over survivors and resurrected after Armageddon, the idea being they could truly empathize with mankind due to their former flesh and blood condition. That teaching has been discussed many times… Read more »
Thanks BC.
Not so much to comment on your comment above.. I have reread the entire article a few times. Fascinating, thought provoking stuff.
My main purpose in writing this is just to point out that the pic with the GB in the chart is from, I think NOT 2015, but 2013 (same month and date). Thanks again.
Thanks Chez.
The caption under the picture at the start of the article says that the 10 men = the other sheep.
In the Paradise Restored to Mankind book on page 256 para39, it shows that Zechariah 8:23 was fulfilled beginning when Cornelius a Gentile converted to Christianity being anointed even before his water baptism!
Therefore by WT’s own “logic” the ten men from all nations that grab the skirt of the Jew(Israel of God) were and still are “anointed” Christians just like Cornelius.
Therefore the other sheep are anointed Christians.
Yes good point. Since I left, and reflecting on this very point, I have often thought the disciples Jesus shared the last supper with were not anointed at that time so all should partake as you said, he was talking to the ones “who had stuck with him in his trials”, which apply to all Christians. Also could this not be applied too with the idea of who the generation is? When they changed the idea that the generation was a ‘wicked generation that see the signs and do nothing about their standing before God” in the 90’s to the… Read more »
I am all but certain that John 10:16 refers to the Gentiles grafted in.
I feel the same about this. Particularly when Zechariah 8:23 is read.
then John 10:16 followed by
1 Corinthians 14:25
Another point someone made here somewhere also ring bells.
The term “Anointed Christian” is unnecessary double speak. It’s kinda like saying “anointed anointed one” …
Hello all. I am new here. Just a brief background before asking my question. I was raised “around” the “truth”, baptized in 2004, and have only recently “awakened” to JW teachings. I have not attended a meeting for over a year now, for various personal reasons. A close friend of mine who also has awakened sent me a link to this website many months ago and I have been reading and studying the various articles since. Along with watching the videos posted on YouTube. I find all the articles refreshing and full of truth. Plain truth. Simple, logical, and easy… Read more »
I don’t think it really matters. Any dry red wine will do. It’s what it represents that is important. By the way, welcome to the sites, OregonGirl.
Thank you Meleti, I discussed this issue and subject over with my husband who has also left the organization, he said pretty much the same thing. I guess I got hung up on the physical aspect, the wine, over the symbolic aspect, what it represents. My husband said “what if there is a person or people who don’t have access to wine, maybe only water, or some other form of drink, do you think Jesus would condemn them because they didn’t specifically have wine?” I know my Lord, he is love like his Father, and I cannot imagine him condemning… Read more »
Hey, welcome Oregangirl, just a few years ago when my husband and I were first allowed ourselves to research the JW history and doctrines after decades as Witnesses , (we are 51 and 47 now), we were so happy to have found Eric Wilsons and co. insightful, refreshing website and now youtubes, as well. It is reassuring that others have journeyed this path before us. Have you looked at the likes of conscientious Christians, who for their dissention to the dictates of the GB, speaking the truths they found have been kicked out, and found Christian freedrom – Ray Franz,… Read more »
I have to comment on the groundswell that has been raised by this post. All sorts of people posting and we seem to be of one mind, regarding the belief in a heavenly hope. Obviously, this false teaching has reached its “sell by” date. These are thoughts which have built within me over the last few years. Five years ago, I attended the Memorial. The year after, I was traveling and a huge storm caused it to be canceled. It is, perhaps, the third time in over 60 years that I’ve missed a Memorial. The next year I observed privately,… Read more »
Hi JA,
I have often wondered why the Almighty God would create man to transform, morphe, or evolve into spiritual beings. Whats the purpose in that?, especially considering the fact that he already has myriads of myriads in his storehouse of Heaven. This Earth is full of evil ones that he has, or has had thrown out from Heaven, what do you reckon they are busy doing?
Jesus told the Apostles and in all likelihood is telling us as well, “where I go, you cannot come……….”. (Jn 8:21)
I’m hearing you my brother,
Psalmbee,
Ok, so just reading 1 Corinthians 11 in context, all I get from it was the congregation were taking advantage of the food and wine and indulging in it whilst there rather than having their evening meal before hand at home. Thus by doing that, they were disrespecting the arrangement and the sacredness if the occasion. So with that they were proving unworthy to eat and drink the emblems? Is that right? If so goes to show another lovely example of their cherry picking to support a theory, creating an uncertainty and a fear to prevent you from participating.
Hi E.I. You are right. It is typical eisegesis approach (Luke 11:52 !)
Le § 2 nous dit que « le Juif » sont les oints, et que ceux qui ne sont pas oints, servent à leurs côtés. D’après Zacharie 8 : 23 « dix hommes de toutes les langues des nations saisiront le pan d’un Juif en disant : « NOUS AVONS ENTENDU DIRE QUE DIEU EST AVEC VOUS ». AVONS-NOUS ENTENDU DIRE QUE DIEU EST AVEC LES OINTS, quand pendant un siècle, ils se sont trompés sur leur propre identité d’esclave fidèle et avisé ? , Avons-nous entendu dire que Dieu était avec eux, quand, pendant un siècle, ils ont prétendu que Jésus était venu en… Read more »
Thank you BC for the article. Good to have your mind on board here. I do think we have to ask ourselves serious questions around this matter. Firstly, Jesus command is clear – “Keep doing this in remembrance of me”. The Insight book cites Matthew 20;20-21 and John 23:21-30 to prove that Judas was not present when Jesus said “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials”. This is in Luke 22:28, where he makes his “covenant for a kingdom”. The Insight book has to suggest that Luke’s account is “evidently” not in strict chronological order… Read more »
It’s their main but not only way of remaining in their position of “regents” by keeping Christ incapacitated and not recognizing his full scope of Authority!
Psalmbee, (2 Jn :9)
Pantomiming the Communion with no one partaking is said to be quite similar to a “No Christ” ritual where people refuse the bread and wine as a way of showing their rejection of Christ. The bizarre nature of this has not been lost on me and I used to wonder what an initiated visitor would think if they walked in the very moment the bread and wine were passed. It would look like a whole bunch of people refusing communion with Christ.
That’s really on target. I regret ever being a part of their ritual.
Another pre-memorial watchtower beat up. So much fuss about who should or shouldn’t partake of the very emblems that Jesus commanded us to partake of in remembrance of his great sacrifice for ALL mankind. As to who is of the ‘anointed’ during the 19th, 20th and 21st century, seems rather redundant to me. In the 1st century there was probably many more the 144000 Christians in the world. How rude of wt to suppose that some of their modern day members, if any, should be included and others not. I’ve been taking the emblems for the past ten years or… Read more »
The notion of being whisked up to heaven, to live there forever, as a reward for virtue probably is more deeply rooted in the mythology of the Greeks than in any other place, although I’m certain that variations of this have appeared in all sorts of cultures, throughout time. The JW approach appealed to a lot of people because it emphasized an earthly hope (which is not all that uncommon in modern Christendom) and reserved heaven for 144,000 people, whom you were statistically unlikely to be a part of. The problem was that they basically came to think of the… Read more »
Within the realm of Christendom, ( JW included ), the understanding is that A) All faithful ones are going to heaven, B) All are going to be resurrected on earth and C) Some will go to heaven and some will stay on earth. Good luck in finding which one is the accurate one as each have their own convincing arguments and interpretation of the scriptures. While I don’t claim to know the answer, I must say that the idea that some would go join Christ and share in executing Satan and the demons, sounds like poetic justice to me I… Read more »
Hello Yobec. You mentioned the war of Jesus Christ against Satan and the demons. I smiled some time ago when I found how TM III looks forward to killing his enemies alongside Christ. The text is in Rev 17:14: “They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” But the called and chosen and faithful ones are not connected with the process of battle, but with the Lamb, with their King himself. And in this spiritual… Read more »
I agree, it’s all the going to heaven business that has caused this confusion. Without it everything is much easier to understand. It’s tragic how witnesses think that teachings about “heavenly hope” or “heavenly resurrection” are biblical truths when they are never even mentioned in the Bible.
@ Yobec I salute your post. Another ARMOURY in shelf. As it seems ….1 Corinthians 4:5 .Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God. Who are CHRIST’S BROTHERS Will indeed be DECIDED in DUE TIME when the LORD RETURNS after all verse 4 of the cited Corinthians states it is the LORD that will EXAMINE all. IT’S hard to sit-in for today’s watchtower study and this article… Read more »
The following words, chill me to the bone: “ The other sheep should never forget that their salvation depends on their active support of Christ’s anointed “brothers” still on earth.” (WT Dec. 3/15 p. 20) “At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s Organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.” (w13 11/15 p. 20) Governing Body member Gerrit Losch on a recent JW Broadcast made the request “Do you trust… Read more »
Chet: Thank you for your heartfelt and straightforward comments. There are about 20 in my local congregation who are going to meet on a phone conference to observe the memorial. I suspect that most, if not all will partake, but all are welcome whether they partake or not. All of us have also been horrified by the recent Watchtower articles that insist that obedience to the Governing Body is a requirement of salvation. Some in my congregation call it blasphemy. I don’t know what to call it, but it is unscriptural, self serving, reprehensible, and it is causing a small… Read more »
If it’s happening in your congregation, you can safely assume that it’s happening in many places. The quarantine measures now in effect could have a major impact on the Witnesses. The influence of the Organization will be lessened when all meetings are done by remote hookup. Some will find that without the constant drumbeat from the platform, they may formulate some thoughts that disagree with the Witnesses. When the quarantine measures begin to be relaxed, I suspect that attendance will be lower and will never fully recover. Perhaps more importantly, when Memorial is observed in the home, and no ill… Read more »
Great point, Just Asking. The book Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace, page 10, explains the JW position that Christ is the Mediator, not fall all men, but for their select few. I remember that from the time, but was sufficiently brainwashed that I didn’t take exception to what they were saying. BTW, that is the only Watchtower publication in my home, and I keep it in case I am ever called upon to prove this to a PIMI. For some time now, I have felt that the Witnesses essentially worship their Organization. I’m sure most loyal and active… Read more »
They have all but dealt Jesus out of the game.
I agree with everything you said. I certainly would not want to be in their position. I’m sure God would have plenty of uncomfortable questions to ask me. I often wonder: Do they really know how ridiculous their claims are or are they oblivious?
I would not, for any reason imaginable. want to claim that Christ didn’t die for all men.
I think you’re right. After a few months of private (or family) reflection, many Witnesses may wake up and realize that a true relationship with God and Christ in no depends upon their attendance at meetings or their obedience to a group of men. Elders have already accused me of attempting to “draw away disciples after myself” because when publishers ask me if they need to be obedient to the Governing Body to make it into the New World, I tell them to believe so only if they can find it in the Bible. The worst sin a Witness can… Read more »
A devout Witness of many years told me, not too many years ago, that they needed the brainwashing of the Organization to counteract the brainwashing of this system. Deliver the same inane message over and over again and it will take hold. That’s how television advertising works and it is deliberately inane. The stupidity of the message insults your intelligence and actually works against your defenses. From the perspective of distance, the Witness message is not all that different. The constant repetition, harping on trivialities, building a lengthy line of reasoning from one detail in a scripture are all ways… Read more »
The org. teaches that our salvation depends on supporting Christ’s brothers and identifies these brothers as being partly themselves. Yet, the sheep in Jesus’s illustration do not seem to recognize in advance how it is that they have done good to his brothers, let alone who these ones are. The sheep recognizes them only once Jesus points them out.
Since the fulfillment of this illustration is set for the future, during his actual coming, does that not seem to indicate that the identification of these ones cannot be done at this time?
Qui sont les frères du Christ ?
Laissons parler Jésus.
MATTHIEU 12 : 50
« Car QUICONQUE fait la volonté de mon Père qui est au ciel, CELUI-LÀ EST MON FRÈRE et ma sœur, et ma mère. ”
Marielle, excellent! You crushed all the unbiblical drivel about two-class Christians with single verse!