The letter begins:
Dear Sister (redacted)
Much to our regret we are forced to contact you by this means in order to answer your [redacted] 2019, which we can only describe as inappropriate. Spiritual matters, whatever these may be, should not be handled by means of registered letters, but rather by means that allow for preserving confidentiality and maintaining trust and friendly dialogue, and which always remain inside the realm of the Christian congregation. Therefore, we deeply regret having to respond by registered letter—given that you have chosen this means of communication—and it is done with great displeasure and sadness since we consider that we are addressing a dear sister in the faith; and it has never been the custom of Jehovah's Witnesses to use written communication for this, because we strive to imitate the model of humility and love that Christ taught should dominate among his followers. Any other attitude would be to act contrary to the basic principles of the Christian faith. (Matthew 5:9). 1 Corinthians 6: 7 says, "Actually then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another." Therefore, we are obliged to state to you that we will not answer any more registered letters from you, but will only attempt to communicate through friendly theocratic means, which are appropriate to our brotherhood.
In Argentina, a registered letter is called a "carta documento". If you send one, a copy goes to the recipient, a copy stays with you, and a third copy stays with the post office. Therefore, it has legal weight as evidence in a lawsuit which is what concerns the branch office here.
The branch office refers to 1 Corinthians 6:7 to claim that such letters are not something a Christian should employ. However, this is a misapplication of the Apostle's words. He would never condone an abuse of power, nor provide a means for those in power to escape the consequences of the actions. Witnesses love to quote from the Hebrew Scriptures, yet how often do those speak about such abuses of power and the fact that the little one has no recourse, but that God would hold an accounting.
“...Their course is evil, and they abuse their power. “Both the prophet and the priest are polluted. Even in my own house I have found their wickedness,” declares Jehovah.” (Jer 23:10, 11)
When Paul was being abused by the leaders of God's holy nation, Israel, what did he do? He cried out, "I appeal to Caesar!" (Acts 25:11).
The tone of the letter is one of petulance. They cannot play the game by their rules, and it ticks them off. For once, they are being forced to face the consequences of their actions.
From the third article, we learn that Felix's tactic of threatening legal action bore fruit. They did not disfellowship him and his wife, though the slander and libel (slandering in writing via text message is libel) were not undone.
However, what does that say about these men that seek to shun him? Seriously, if Felix is a sinner, then these men should stand up for what is right, be loyal to Jehovah, and disfellowship him. They shouldn't worry about the consequences. If they are persecuted for doing what is right, then it is a source of praise for them. Their treasure is safe in the heavens. If they are righteously upholding Bible principles, then why back off? Do they value profit over principle? Are they afraid to stand for what is right? Or do they know deep down that their actions are not righteous at all?
I do love this passage: "it has never been the custom of Jehovah's Witnesses to use written communication for this, because we strive to imitate the model of humility and love that Christ taught should dominate among his followers. Any other attitude would be to act contrary to the basic principles of the Christian faith."
While it is true that they don't like to use "written communication" for such matters because it leaves a trail of evidence for which they can be held accountable, there is no truth to the statement that they do so to model the "humility and love that Christ taught". It makes one wonder if these men read the Bible at all. Outside of the four gospels and the account of Acts, the rest of the Christian Scriptures consist of letters written to the congregations, often with strong rebukes for misconduct. Consider the letter to the Corinthians, the Galatians, and John's Revelation with its letters to the seven congregations. What hogwash they spout!
In the article "A Weapon of Darkness" we find this delicious quote from an 18th century Bishop:
“Authority is the greatest and most irreconcilable enemy to truth and argument that this world ever furnished. All the sophistry—all the color of plausibility—the artifice and cunning of the subtlest disputer in the world may be laid open and turned to the advantage of that very truth which they are designed to hide; but against authority there is no defence.” (18th Century Scholar Bishop Benjamin Hoadley)
The elders and the branch cannot defend themselves using Scripture, so they fall back on the time-honored cudgel of ecclesiastical authority. (Perhaps I should say "nightstick" given the current climate.) Given their power, Felix and his wife are using the only defense they have against the authority of the Organization. How typical that they now paint him as working against God by not following theocratic procedure. This is projection. They are the ones not following theocratic procedure. Where in the Bible are elders allowed to form three-man committees, hold secret meetings, disallow any recordings of or witnesses to the proceedings, and punish someone for speaking only truth? In Israel, judicial cases were heard by the older men sitting at the city gates where any passerby could hear and observe the proceedings. No late-night secret meetings were allowed by Scripture.
They speak of keeping confidentiality. Who does that protect? The accused, or the judges? A judicial matter is not the time for "confidentiality". They crave it because they crave the darkness, just as Jesus said:
“. . .men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”” (John 3:19-21)
Felix and wife want the light of day, while the men in the Branch and the local elders want the darkness of their "confidentiality".
Having clarified this, we are also obliged to reject all your assertions as being completely inappropriate within the religious sphere, something you are well aware of and which you accepted at the time of your baptism. The local religious ministers will only act according to theocratic procedures based on the Bíble without imposing any of the actions your letter alleges. The congregation is not governed by human procedural norms nor by the spirit of confrontation typical of secular courts. The decisions of the religious ministers of Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be overruled since their decisions are not subject to review by the secular authorities (art. 19 CN). As you will understand, we are obliged to reject all your allegations. Know this, dear sister, that any decision by the elders of the congregation made according to the established theocratic procedures, and that are proper to our religious community on a biblical basis, will be fully operative without there being any legal recourse on the basis of alleged damages and/or harm and/or religious discrimination. Law 23.592 would never apply to such a case. Finally, your constitutional rights are not higher than the constitutional rights that also support us. Far from being a question of competing rights, it is about the necessary differentiation of areas: the state cannot interfere in the religious sphere because acts of internal discipline are exempt from the authority of magistrates (art. 19 CN).
This demonstrates a complete disdain for "God's minister". (Romans 13:1-7) Again, they claim to be acting only by what the Bible says, yet they provide no scriptures to support: their secret committees; their refusal to keep any written and public record of the proceedings; their total prohibition against witnesses and observers, their common practice of not informing the accused of the evidence against him beforehand so he/she can prepare a defense; their practice of concealing the names of a person's accusers.
Does not Proverbs 18:17 guarantee the accused the right to cross-examine his accuser. In fact, if you search through the scriptures for an example that matches the judicial proceedings common among Jehovah's Witnesses, you will find only one: The star chamber trial of Jesus Christ by the Jewish Sanhedrin.
As to their statement that "the congregation is not governed by human procedural norms nor by the spirit of confrontation typical of secular courts." Poppycock! Why, in this very instance, the elders engaged in a campaign of public vilification and slander. How much more confrontational could it have been? Just imagine if a judge in one of the secular courts they so easily disdain did such a thing. Not only would he be removed from the case he was trying, but he would surely face dismissal and very likely be brought up on criminal charges.
They do a lot of chest thumping about how they can operate freely and without concern for violating the country's laws, but were that the case, why did they back off in the end?
I love the allusion to "the terms...you accepted at the time of your baptism." In other words, "you agreed to our terms (not God's) and so are bound by them, like it or not." Do they not realize that a person cannot surrender his human rights? For instance, if you sign a contract to become someone's slave and then renege and want your freedom, they cannot sue you for breach of contract, because the contract is null and void on its face. It is illegal to try to force someone to give up their human rights which are enshrined in the law of the land and cannot be taken away be a signed contract or one implied by virtue of baptism.
You well know that the work carried out by the congregation elders, including the disciplinary work—if this were the case, and to which you submitted when you were baptized as a Jehovah's Witness—is governed by the Holy Scriptures and, as an Organization, we have always adhered to the Scriptures in performing disciplinary work (Galatians 6:1). Furthermore, you are responsible for your actions (Galatians 6:7) and Christian ministers have the God-given ecclesiastical authority to take measures that protect all members of the congregation and preserve high biblical standards (Revelation 1:20). Therefore, we must clarify that from now on we will not agree to discuss in any judicial forum matters that only concern the religious sphere and that are exempt from the authority of the magistrates, as has been repeatedly recognized by the national judiciary.
This is the area I would love to see brought before the human rights tribunal of any nation. Yes, any religion has the right to determine who may be a member and who can be thrown out, just like any social club can. That is not the issue. The issue is one of social blackmail. They don't just throw you out. They force all your family and friends to shun you. By this threat, they deny their followers the right of free speech and free assembly.
They misapply 2 John which speaks only of those who deny the Christ coming in the flesh. They put that on the same level as disagreeing with their interpretation of Scripture. What an incredible presumption!
They cite Galatians 6:1 which reads: "Brothers, even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness. But keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted."
It doesn't say officially appointed elders, but those with spiritual qualifications. Felix wanted to discuss these matters with them using the Scriptures, but they wouldn't have it. They never do. So who is demonstrating spiritual qualifications? If you are afraid to engage in a reasonable Bible discussion, can you still claim to have "spiritual qualifications"? Go to them and challenge any of their beliefs using only the Bible and you will get the standard response, "We are not here to debate you." That is the pat phrase that really says, "we know we can't win an argument if we can only use the Bible for support. All we have is the authority of the Governing Body and its publications." (The JW publications have become the Catechism of Jehovah's Witnesses and like its Catholic father, it holds authority over Scripture.)
Their only recourse is the exercise of ecclesiastical authority. We have to bear in mind that their "God-given ecclesiastical authority" is not given by God at all, but by the self-appointed men of the Governing Body.
Finally, we sincerely and deeply express our wish that, as you carefully meditate prayerfully on your position as God's humble servant, you may proceed according to divine will, focus on your spiritual activities, accept the help that the elders of the congregation seek to give you (Revelation 2:1) and "Throw your burden on Jehovah" (Psalm 55:22). We bid you farewell with Christian affection, sincerely hoping that you can find the peace that will allow you to act with the peaceful wisdom of God (James 3:17).
With the foregoing, we close this epistolary exchange with this letter, expressing our appreciation and wishing you the Christian love that you deserve and that we have for you, sincerely hoping that you reconsider.
Affectionately,
This is my favorite part. Out of their own mouth comes their condemnation! They cite Psalm 55:22, which is the go-to text used by elders and branch officials to quiet the victims of abuse of power, but I'm sure they never read the context. If they want Felix to apply this verse to his situation then they have to accept the part that applies to them. It reads:
Listen to my prayer, O God,
And do not ignore my request for mercy.
2 Do pay attention to me and answer me.
My concern makes me restless,
And I am distraught
3 Because of what the enemy is saying
And the pressure from the wicked one.
For they heap trouble upon me,
And in anger they harbor animosity against me.
4 My heart is in anguish within me,
And the terrors of death overwhelm me.
5 Fear and trembling come upon me,
And shuddering grips me.
6 I keep saying: “If only I had wings like a dove!
I would fly away and reside in safety.
7 Look! I would flee far away.
I would lodge in the wilderness. (Selah)
8 I would hurry to a place of shelter
Away from the raging wind, away from the storm.”
9 Confuse them, O Jehovah, and frustrate their plans,
For I have seen violence and conflict in the city.
10 Day and night they walk around on its walls;
Within it are malice and trouble.
11 Ruin is in its midst;
Oppression and deception never depart from its public square.
12 For it is not an enemy who taunts me;
Otherwise I could put up with it.
It is not a foe who has risen up against me;
Otherwise I could conceal myself from him.
13 But it is you, a man like me,
My own companion whom I know well.
14 We used to enjoy a warm friendship together;
Into the house of God we used to walk along with the multitude.
15 May destruction overtake them!
Let them go down alive into the Grave;
For evil resides among them and within them.
16 As for me, I will call out to God,
And Jehovah will save me.
17 Evening and morning and noontime, I am troubled and I groan,
And he hears my voice.
18 He will rescue me and give me peace from those fighting against me,
For multitudes come against me.
19 God will hear and respond to them,
The one who sits enthroned from of old. (Selah)
They will refuse to change,
Those who have not feared God.
20 He attacked those at peace with him;
He violated his covenant.
21 His words are smoother than butter,
But conflict is in his heart.
His words are softer than oil,
But they are drawn swords.
22 Throw your burden on Jehovah,
And he will sustain you.
Never will he allow the righteous one to fall.
23 But you, O God, will bring them down to the deepest pit.
Those bloodguilty and deceitful men will not live out half their days.
But as for me, I will trust in you.
By using this scripture, they have given Felix and his wife much needed encouragement. Why? Because they have labeled them both as "the righteous one". That leaves themselves to fill the role of "those bloodguilty and deceitful men". They have aptly, though unwittingly, cast themselves in the role of enemies of God.
Remember, our days are not just 70 or 80 years, but eternity if we humbly submit to God. Even though we sleep in death, we will awaken when the Lord calls. But will he call us to life or to judgment? (John 5:27-30)
What a shock it will be for so many individuals who hold themselves to be the most righteous of men when they awaken to find they are not standing in the warmth of the Lord's approval, but in the harsh light of the Lord's judgment. Will they then humbly repent? Time will tell.
Archived Comments
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Comment by Chet on 2020-06-01 14:57:24
This speaks volumes: “Yes, any religion has the right to determine who may be a member and who can be thrown out, just like any social club can. That is not the issue. The issue is one of social blackmail. They don’t just throw you out. They force all your family and friends to shun you. By this threat, they deny their followers the right of free speech and free assembly.”
Many years ago, I read a comic book where one of the characters had a side show event with free entry. It was free to get in, but he charged money to let you out of the sideshow. Of course, this was comic book nonsense, but the JW Organization seems to use similar logic. If someone actually did operate such a side show, they would quickly be arrested for detaining someone against their will. It would also be fraudulent, because they are deliberately allowing a material omission with regards to the terms of the deal.
If the Watchtower and affiliated organizations has a weakness in its position, in my opinion, this would be that they use social pressure, or as stated above, social blackmail, to enforce compliance with their rules. There are several aspects of this that are probable targets for legal action, to the best of my understanding.
I’ll start by stating that when I was baptized, the baptism was as a Non-Denominational Christian and no mention was made of joining any organization. For persons baptized before 1985, this holds true. We were baptized as non-denominational Christians and were not “joining” the Jehovah’s Witnesses Organization. This is a fact that they, the representatives of the Watchtower Society at the time, brought up and made clear. Being a Witness for Jehovah was something you did, not something you were.
And I was proud to do that work. I believed that the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses, at that time, were as close to biblical truth as could be found anywhere on earth, but I was never involved in promoting that organization. I promoted the teachings I believed to be scriptural. Up to that time, I had not been informed that the teachings of the Society alluded to our association with them as part of salvation, and to be honest, had they ever stated such a thing, I would have cut off any association with them. At the time, I saw them as an organization which published bible-based literature and arranged meetings for like-minded individuals. They were a tool I used to accomplish my service to Jehovah God, and I never considered myself as serving them. I never considered them as essential, but I did truly appreciate being able to meet with people that shared my beliefs regarding the scriptures.
But they changed the rules, and somehow, I am expected to adopt their new view, without question. If I don’t, they can change my standing within their organization (as if I give a damn), but they will also bring to bear, upon my friends and family, pressure to cut off all association with me, upon threat of expulsion, which would now place them on the receiving end of being shunned and the effects would quickly multiply. I would submit that this amounts to racketeering, especially when it involves people that were baptized freely as non-denominational Christians and whom never promised any allegiance whatsoever to their organization.
Quite literally, free “entrance” has become impeded exit. And the added fact that it was plainly explained that I was not joining any organization, at the time of my baptism, means that I never “entered” in the first place. That is precisely why they changed the baptismal procedures circa 1985, to require acknowledgment that this baptism would identify the person as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Actually, nothing has changed, except that the Watchtower Society is no longer in existence in the form it previously was, and I no longer see fit to use literature published by the successor organizations which are now associated with Watchtower publications. When they stated that Christ is not the mediator for all of mankind, but only for the 144,000. This is in direct opposition to what is stated in 1 Tim 2:5 “ there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”.
This is the primary reason I no longer see fit to use Watchtower publications as i bear witness to Jehovah, the one Living and True God. However, there are many other reasons to be found in their publications. I no longer attend meetings at the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses because these meetings now center upon the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses as the channel God uses to communicate with mankind and I feel that they have drawn away from God. The Organization has drastically changed the rules and I am under no obligation to them. At the time of my baptism, I was treated as a fellow worker in bearing Witness to Jehovah, and now they expect me to be bound to a membership agreement I was never a party to.
So this describes where I feel another legal vulnerability exists. They have made ongoing changes to the terms of agreements between members and the Organization. In the case of persons baptized prior to the changes made circa 1985, they have sought to impose an agreement without consent or any action on the part of the individual. They are seeking to unilaterally impose a contract upon a person that is not a party to any agreement. This is not legal.
Perhaps, more to the point, it is not legally enforceable. A vague agreement, open to many interpretations, is difficult to enforce. With the ever-changing nature of doctrines, policies and procedures within the Organization, it would be a simple matter to find inconsistencies and even direct contradictions which would make it difficult, if not impossible, for the Organization to legally enforce much of anything.
The secret nature of proceedings within the Organization is another area where they may have some legal exposure. In Europe, the GDPR places some strong restrictions on what information can be kept about an individual. In the U.S. there are stringent requirements for PII (personally identifiable information) and even stricter requirements involving PHI (protected health information). Obviously, the individual congregations and the parent organization have to have some sorts of records, but with the degree of secrecy practiced by this organization, I doubt that anyone could ever find out what information the Organization, or one of the local congregations, has ... and I’m not so certain that they get away with such practices in our day.
Actually, this last point may be the Achilles Heel of the Organization, because if someone filed a request for just what information they had, they might well be required to divulge this, or face penalties. If numerous such requests were made, it might have a significant impact on them, as an organization.
In my opinion, the organizations which are affiliated with the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, have changed drastically. The people directing matters 50 years ago, were cut from much different cloth. It’s as if the name of a business remains unchanged, but the new management/ownership of that business has adopted a completely different approach to doing business and no longer upholds the ethics for which that business was known. The shortcomings of the Organization in decades past pale in comparison to what is happening nowadays. I would like nothing better than for the “new management” of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be publicly exposed for what they truly are.
Comment by Zacheus on 2020-06-01 20:50:41
and the letter was signed by a human of course? more likely 'signed' with a rubber stamp.
Comment by Menrov on 2020-06-02 06:50:20
Reading this, makes my blood boil. I see that though there are likely laws to protect us, judges seem to be hesitant to be very firm against religious organisations.
Anyway, if it would be me here, I would start a social media campaign. Court cases will not help or will take a longtime and money. But social media can be very powerful. Use newspapers, twitter, facebook, instagram etc to buildup an "awake" now campaign. Who knows, if successful, a lawyer might be interested to offer his services. Demand letters from the organisation. Even if they do not respond, stay firm. Use WT material in the public domain in your favour. Consider starting a crowdfunding with the aim to make the public aware of the 2 faces of the organisation: the public image and the secret internal image.Reply by Chet on 2020-06-02 08:52:45
The Organization cannot overcome the effects of public scrutiny. The Australian Royal Commission is a perfect example, as there is now a public record of a GB member backpedaling and dissembling, including video proof. The letter upon which this post is based is another perfect example. While I’m no fan of the privacy practices of social media, I can see that it is a perfect platform to expose the abuses of the JW Organization.
As zealous as I am to see the Organization exposed for what it is, I also find great sadness in all of this. Many sincere, devoted people face crushing disappointment as the Organization continues to unravel. There will be a lot of people wandering around in confusion and grief as this process of exposure reaches its logical conclusion.Reply by Menrov on 2020-06-02 12:19:23
I can see that some will suffer when they realize that their beacon of hope is gone. But I simply cannot stand arrogance of this organization and the impact it has on so many people. I really would like to see this organization to suffer and be exposed to what they are doing. Is everything wrong in this organisation? No, but enough to be considered dangerous and harmful.
Reply by Chet on 2020-06-02 22:47:06
It’s going to be rough for the people whom have placed their trust in this organization. When a person leaves a high-control belief system, it’s normal and predictable to experience great confusion. What happens when the high-control organization dissipates into thin air.
This is possible, in view of what has already happened. I can’t imagine that donations are adequate at this point and with all of the economic uncertainty of the moment, a lot of people are probably not capable of “digging deep”, when it comes to donating. From what I hear, the sale of Kingdom Halls is continuing apace, if not increasing, and this sounds to me like an all-hands-on-deck, last ditch effort to raise money. Eventually, they will run out of Kingdom Halls to sell. What’s left when those are gone?
Whatever decency there was in the Organization has been trampled upon, by people with an agenda to control, dominate and to reap the rewards. My grandparents would have been appalled by today’s Organization.Reply by Psalmbee on 2020-06-02 23:27:12
Hey Chet, they are finding out that they really don't need kingdom halls in the last recent months. Skype and Zoom have been a sufficient substitution to keep all the die hards together, in fact it's a reassurance of what they are being told and have been told.
Psalmbee, (Ps 27:5)Reply by Chet on 2020-06-03 01:39:09
They’ve been moving towards an online model for several years now. If the meetings and assemblies feature videos, why bother to have a building to meet in, when you can stream them to your home?
The COVID 19 situation has changed the world. A lot of things are being done remotely and there seems to be no problem for some businesses and institutions to adapt. A good friend that runs a retail business with significant walk-in trade isn’t even breaking a sweat. Apparently his business has not been affected. I’ve been to the office twice in the last 10 weeks and I’m actually more productive from home.
However, religious institutions benefit greatly from in-person interaction and the quality of fellowship has definitely changed. With a high-control group, such as JWs, the continuous pressure towards conformity relies greatly on personal interaction. There is an impact to dealing with someone in person that Zoom, Skype, Teams or any other online meeting tool can’t even begin to match.
When I want to make a point with regard to my work. I do it in person, because that is a more effective way to communicate. Collaboration tools can be easily ignored. You can turn the volume down and just check in every so often. We’ve all experienced meeting parts that were unpleasant, perhaps because a domineering person browbeat the audience, or even singled out individuals from the platform. It’s hard to intimidate or browbeat someone over a Zoom session, and if you don’t like what you hear, you can always mute the sound.
Without personal interaction, any cohesion in a congregation will erode rapidly. When congregants can conceal a negative reaction and, without consequence, mute the sound when something offends their sensibilities, the amount of influence the elders are capable of exerting will diminish. It’s hard to avoid counsel when you are buttonholed at a meeting, but you don’t have to open your door if you see a couple of elders coming to “shepherd” you.
IMHO, they Witnesses will not be able to recover the influence they once held over their membership. If in-person meetings are resumed, I would expect that attendance would be significantly reduced. There are millions of Witnesses whom are learning that they don’t have to attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall and some will never return. For someone raised as a Witness, the last few months may well be the only time they have missed meetings for this long. Such persons may find it to their liking.
It’s possible that I’m completely wrong about this, but I suspect that the era of the Kingdom Hall is indeed drawing to a close, but I think that the ability of the JW Organization to retain control will dissipate as physical meeting attendance becomes a thing of the past.Reply by Chet on 2020-06-06 19:47:16
The thing is, they are selling off property. Kingdom Halls are a great place for collecting donations, so if they are selling Kingdom Halls, it occurs to me that either they aren’t getting enough in the contribution box from these locations or they are so desperate for money and are selling off everything they can.
For over 40 years, all I heard about was growth. Congregations were split. New Kingdom Halls were being built and for a while, it seemed to be their primary activity. It seems like very suddenly they quit building new halls, started talking about consolidation and then I started hear that halls were being sold, and now it seems like quite a few have been sold with no end in sight.
Meleti did a video about the possibility that the Organization had reached a tipping point and I think he was right on the money. The 180 degree turn-around strikes me as much more than business as usual.
I guess all we can do is keep tuned and see what develops.
Reply by Beroeans Creed on 2020-06-03 12:22:27
Chet,
You make some very good points especially “ devoted people face crushing disappointment as the Organization continues to unravel. There will be a lot of people wandering around in confusion and grief as this process of exposure reaches its logical conclusion.”
We can’t minimize this, as most of the R&F practically idolize the GB and when they are totally exposed for what they are, and that will be soon IMHO, our family and friends are going to suffer. All the more reason if you are a PISA to do our part to prepare them as much as possible. The only ones that will survive this are the ones who have a solid relationship with Jehovah and recognize Jesus as the only way to that Relationship. They must now start bypassing the GB, to Survive spiritually!Reply by Chet on 2020-06-03 20:46:48
It’s frightening to watch. I have met JWs that have effectively become superstitious because they are unwilling to accept any new information, even regarding non-spiritual matters, unless the GB has weighed in on the matter. Their every opinion is shaped by the GB.
The problem is, that such persons are not rooting themselves in a relationship with God. They are, instead, rooted in a manmade organization that can, and almost certainly will, leave them in bitter disappointment.
One of the saddest aspects of this whole debacle, is that people that leave the Organization frequently leave Jehovah, as well. I’ve observed this far too many times. One fellow started a series of videos on YouTube that were charming and filled with heart, but quickly diverted into complete absence of spiritual consciousness.
I have seen others who’ve embraced atheism and many have repudiated the morality of their former life. I have seen videos where the name Jehovah is pronounced in an exaggerated and mocking fashion. Whether Jehovah is the correct way to translate God’s name into English or not, there is no call to mock that name, just because a religion which uses it prominently, has failed to live up to its hype.
So what will happen if the bottom drops out and the Watchtower and it’s associated organizations collapse entirely? I’ve learned never to underestimate the ability of people to operate in a state of denial, and I suspect that many of the most sincere Witness will grasp at straws, and try to interpret such an event in a similar manner to how the Watchtower has interpreted their past prophetic failures, and other setbacks, always claiming that it is all part of God’s overall purpose and and that the light gets ever brighter.
However, if their is no parent organization controlling the spin, whatever degree of cohesion has existed among the Witnesses communicating through social media could prove short lived.
What is frightening to me is what will happen when it occurs to Witnesses of long-standing that Armageddon may not happen within their lifespan. A fine old Witness that I had known for decades experienced some health setbacks while in his 80s and began to express that this wasn’t supposed to have happened. Shortly after that he lost all hope and passed away. Members of his family have told me that they were convinced that he realized he had been misled and had no reason left to live. His decline was dramatically rapid, even though his underlying health was not that bad.
So, any of us could soon find ourselves in the position of having to come to the support of family or friends that have had the rug pulled out from beneath them and now find themselves without hope.
Comment by Psalmbee on 2020-06-03 23:52:50
I don't know the numbers but it does not seem to me that WT is crumbling, I have been reading the comments here and some are making it sound like just a year or two WT will be no more. I look at the web and the anti JW sites, the numbers there are very minuscule compared to the claimed number of JWs. I have been watching for the past 5 or 6 years and even well before that and the numbers are not increasing from what I see. One here one there, definitely no mass exodus. I just happen to know some JW's that are buying survival kits because they were told they should have them ready. Their faith is actually getting much stronger in these calamitous times.
It seems to me the ones that are leaving are the ones doing their own research and not even all of them. It would also seem to me that if you scaled the ones who are and who are not doing their own research the scale would tip over to the side that is not doing their own research very quickly like an avalanche.
If I had to guesstimate, I would put it at right under 2% of the ones who might have left at this present time and not a whole lot more throughout their history.
i would like to believe otherwise but I can't ignore what I can't see.
Who's gonna tell me I'm wrong?
What facts are you gonna use to tell me I'm wrong?
I dare someone to prove me wrong!
Psalmbee, (1Peter 1:12)Reply by Chet on 2020-06-04 02:04:27
Then why are they selling Kingdom Halls and merging congregations? On the handful of occasions when I happen to drive by a Kingdom Hall during meeting times, the parking lots don’t look very full, these days. There’s a large city less than 50 miles from my home and there have been quite a few consolidations up there. Other cities, with which I am familiar have seen significant consolidations and Kingdom Halls that have existed for decades are now sold. PIMI relatives in populous places are now traveling to distant Kingdom Halls, even though there had been Halls in that neighborhood for fifty or more years.
Selling off real estate is not a sign of growth or health for any organization. For years, I did business with several active Witnesses and they spent a lot of time on RBC activities. You don’t hear about that anymore.
Active and loyal Witnesses of my acquaintance have questioned what is going on and why halls are being sold. The gentleman i mentioned in an earlier post was very puzzled by what he was seeing, especially with regard to selling off assets. This is not an organization posturing for growth and by all appearances, they are shrinking.
There is a fairly large Ex JW community. There are YouTube videos by numerous people and Reddit has a large community. Not every Witness that leaves creates a YouTube channel. I ignore most of the videos posted by Ex JWs. Meleti, and a handful of others, seem to keep it dignified and stick to facts, but many of these YouTube channels are just ranting, raving, endless screeds.
I am skeptical of the figures published in the Watchtower. After the ‘75 debacle, they tried to cover over the fact that a lot of people left the Organization, but it was obvious that many did. I remember disassociations and people just plain walking away.
One huge hippopotamus that is rarely mentioned is the fact that they have had a prophetic failure which makes 1975 look like a picnic. For many years, basically at least the first 40 years of my life, they were adamant that the people living in 1914 would not pass away before Armageddon. Well, a person born in 1914 would turn 106 in 1920. They are not fooling many people with their overlapping generations nonsense and people are leaving. Even more alarming is the fact that in many cases, it is the Witnesses of long-standing that are leaving. People that have stuck with them for many years are now refusing to press the reset button for their expectations any longer and are facing the fact that Armageddon may not happen in their lifetime.
As to the faith of Witnesses getting stronger in calamitous times; it is their faith in men that is getting stronger, not their faith in God. Back in 1956, a small group of people came to the conclusion that God was going to send flying saucers to rescue them, and then bring a flood. When the date came, and nothing occurred, their prophetess secluded herself for a few hours, then declared that God had decided to give mankind a reprieve.
After this gross failure, the group actually became more outspoken and tried to recruit followers, where they had not been particularly proselytitic up to that time. Their “faith” increased with this profound failure, but that was not a sign of success. The handful of true believers slowly drifted away from one another and the leader became well known in the occult world, but nothing came of the movement.
The Watchtower has a lot of experience at stirring up people and playing upon their fears. Bug-out bags and survival kits play into the fears many people have. When an authority figure reinforces their fears, it reinforces their trust, it how many unused survival kits will it take before some believers start to question.
These are perilous times and I would not be at all surprised if the trouble continues. But that has nothing to do with the Watchtower’s message. Old school JWs saw Armageddon hiding behind every problem, because they were told that they possessed special knowledge. Claiming special knowledge is a common cult tactic. When the Tribulation actually starts, a survival kit will do little good. The forces at play will be monstrous and only with God’s protection will anyone survive.
Comment by Leonardo Josephus on 2020-06-04 04:54:38
The comments from Psalmbee and Chet contain many accurate statements. Let me start by saying that the selling of Kingdom Halls does not prove much in itself. Why are they selling ? Because they can. The Org has ownership of virtually every Hall, and can sell any they consider are under utilised. That in itself tells us what they think of future growth prospects.
The UK accounts for 2019 are available on the UK Companies House website. They are shifting money about in very large quantities, with some £90 million of cash and equipment making its way somewhere, with much of this coming from other countries which do not have a present need.
In South America, growth seems to be the greatest, not in the West, where things have been fairly stagnant for over 20 years. Hours spent in the field produce very few new disciples, except for the children that are being brought up as Witnesses. And even if some of those children do not make it, the quantity that do make it are contributing to a respectable increase.
A large proportion of WItnesses came in in the late 60s and 70s. They are getting older, and it may well be that their deaths, which are not so many years away, may contribute to a fall in overall numbers in the Western world.
While some are waking up, from my experience it is not a large percentage, but there are some, though few actually leave, Many hang on for the sake of family, putting on some pretence at still being active supporters.
Those of us who still attend at meetings are likely to be there because of family. It is amazing what you can sit through. But attendance is not agreement or even acceptance of teachings and ideas, while I grimace at some of the comments made from the platform or zoom and at meetings. If the Org has given up on real growth and is happy to preserve something like the status quo, they have enough funds and regular contributions, to keep on going , I am sure (sadly).
It does not prevent us as individuals from highlighting errors, reminding those who are in that "Nobody knows the day or the hour", or "They are probably in need on money to meet the child abuse claims" , or " I cannot imagine what false teachings those apostate sites are promoting " or "when did you last receive a shepherding call ? ".
It is a sad thing that the less that is demanded of Witnesses, the more likely they are to stay. That has certainly been true of other faiths, such as Adventists, whose numbers well exceed Jehovah's Witnesses. JW meetings have been dumbed down since the Clam midweek meeting arrived, but people do not leave. There is little spiritual food, but the members do not realise what real spiritual food is. They would not know truth if it came up and bit them. The Catholic church mass is as dumbed down as anything could be. People leave, maybe some join, but they keep on going.
We might wish for some great crash, but this will only happen in Jehovah's due time, and that may be as close to the truth as we can get.
Love to all here
.
,Reply by Fani on 2020-06-05 02:17:34
Oui, je suis d'accord avec toi Leonardo
Comment by Zazza on 2020-06-04 14:32:08
I have read carefully the response in the letter from the branch.
Their response about the fact, that interference of magistrates , or a State in the religious sphere, is incomplete and details are important in such legal statements.
I explain myself: the EHCR judgment : Jehovah witnesses versus moscow : 10 june 2010:
In this judgment the EHCR recognised that the interference from Russia with the ban on its activity constituted a drastic measure disproportionated to the leggitimate aim pursued.
But listen carefully, they didn't exclude the possibility of interference of a State or magistrates from local Courts (margin of appreciation)
I quote from the EHCR judgement: Greater flexibility in choosing a more proportionate sanction could be archieved by introducing in to the domestic law less radical alternative sanctions such as a warning , a fine or withdrawal of tax benefits
I do not now of the person in the branch writing this letter knows the legal reasoning from the EHCR -judges in this specific context, of interference of domestic courts into the religious sphere.
Comment by Zazza on 2020-06-04 15:07:56
Why are religious organisations protected from the constitution for internal discipline measures like shunning members? And can the rights of both parties being balanced and protected in Court Cases?
Interesting legal arguments are presented on the website: scholarship.law.upenn.edu Religious shunning and the Free exercise clause-Penn law Legal scholarship repository -University of Pensylvania.